I would say it was when He nailed Sinai to the Cross.
"Pastor Is Always Right, Even If Wrong" - Abusive Spiritual Authority Hall of Shame
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Latest case law on the subject of resistance by members against dictatorial authority in a church - this story from one year ago is about a lawsuit filed by church members of Second Baptist Church, Houston, Texas whose right to vote was taken away from them:
"Jeremiah Counsel claims that members’ voting rights were removed during a May 31, 2023, meeting purported to be about amending the bylaws to defend the church against 'the woke agenda.' Members were not told before or at the meeting that other changes included removing their voting rights, which had been in place since the church was founded nearly 100 years ago. . . .
“'Church takeovers can have a devastating effect on congregation’s members who feel like they’ve lost a family home,' Evans said. 'We’ve interviewed many members of Second Baptist Church Houston and other churches who feel like they’ve had the wool pulled over their eyes and have been betrayed.'”
roysreport.com
And here is the update - as of July 16, 2026, the court has ruled in favor of the church, declining to get involved in hashing out this dispute with the disgruntled members. While I totally disagree with the action of Second Baptist Church in taking away the members' right to vote, I must grudgingly admit that the court may have done the right thing by refusing to try to resolve this fracas within a local congregation. However, the courts may have the right and duty to enforce bylaws and contractual agreements made between churches/religious societies and their members/supporters, without being found to violate the separation of church and state.
"At the time, Second Baptist said it was changing its bylaws to 'protect our ability to continue operating as a biblical church,' according to court documents. A secular court can't determine whether that was a fair characterization, Dorfman ruled, without trying to determine what 'biblical church' means.
"The court also lacked authority to kick out the church's new senior pastor, Ben Young, the judge ruled. Young's father, longtime senior pastor Ed Young, tapped his son as his successor in 2024 without a congregational vote."
"Jeremiah Counsel claims that members’ voting rights were removed during a May 31, 2023, meeting purported to be about amending the bylaws to defend the church against 'the woke agenda.' Members were not told before or at the meeting that other changes included removing their voting rights, which had been in place since the church was founded nearly 100 years ago. . . .
“'Church takeovers can have a devastating effect on congregation’s members who feel like they’ve lost a family home,' Evans said. 'We’ve interviewed many members of Second Baptist Church Houston and other churches who feel like they’ve had the wool pulled over their eyes and have been betrayed.'”
Lawsuit: Prominent Houston Church Deceptively Removed Members’ Voting Rights, Giving Pastor ‘Nearly Dictatorial Authority’ | The Roys Report
Second Baptist Church of Houston stripped church members of their voting rights and gave “nearly dictatorial authority” to the senior pastor.
roysreport.com
And here is the update - as of July 16, 2026, the court has ruled in favor of the church, declining to get involved in hashing out this dispute with the disgruntled members. While I totally disagree with the action of Second Baptist Church in taking away the members' right to vote, I must grudgingly admit that the court may have done the right thing by refusing to try to resolve this fracas within a local congregation. However, the courts may have the right and duty to enforce bylaws and contractual agreements made between churches/religious societies and their members/supporters, without being found to violate the separation of church and state.
"At the time, Second Baptist said it was changing its bylaws to 'protect our ability to continue operating as a biblical church,' according to court documents. A secular court can't determine whether that was a fair characterization, Dorfman ruled, without trying to determine what 'biblical church' means.
"The court also lacked authority to kick out the church's new senior pastor, Ben Young, the judge ruled. Young's father, longtime senior pastor Ed Young, tapped his son as his successor in 2024 without a congregational vote."
Exclusive: Houston megachurch Second Baptist wins major victory in lawsuit filed by church members
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It turns out that the American Center for Law and Justice (Jay Sekulow, director) was representing the church on this matter:
"Second Baptist posted statements on their homepage in response to the ruling from Senior Pastor Ben Young and American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ) Chief Counsel Jay Sekulow.
“'We received word that the judge has ruled in our favor in the matter before the court and we are deeply grateful,' stated Young. 'We remain committed to the work God has called us to through this, His church.'
"Sekulow said that he was 'pleased with the Court's well-reasoned decision,' noting that 'we have maintained that decisions about church governance belong to the Church, not the civil courts.'
“'As Judge Dorfman recognized, the church autonomy doctrine prevents civil courts from becoming involved in matters that are at the heart of a church's internal governance. We couldn't agree more,' Sekulow added."
[I believe that secular courts have the power to force churches and religious societies to honor their by-laws if they have been violated. But in this case, it appears that the church leadership tricked the congregation, or a faction thereof, into changing the by-laws. So there is nothing the courts can do].
"JCC claimed in a statement that, at the 2023 meeting, the defendants 'deceived and manipulated the members of the church via a misleading vote to amend the by-laws in such a way to deny all 90,000+ members of their right to vote.'
“'Church members were not given copies of the proposed by-laws, nor were they told that if they voted for the new by-laws, they would never again have transparency to the financial affairs and governance of the church or be permitted to vote on any church business going forward,' stated JCC.
“'The Senior Pastor, without a vote of the membership or a board of trustees elected by the members, now has ultimate control over the church and its $1 Billion in assets that came from tithes and offerings.'”
www.christianpost.com
"Second Baptist posted statements on their homepage in response to the ruling from Senior Pastor Ben Young and American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ) Chief Counsel Jay Sekulow.
“'We received word that the judge has ruled in our favor in the matter before the court and we are deeply grateful,' stated Young. 'We remain committed to the work God has called us to through this, His church.'
"Sekulow said that he was 'pleased with the Court's well-reasoned decision,' noting that 'we have maintained that decisions about church governance belong to the Church, not the civil courts.'
“'As Judge Dorfman recognized, the church autonomy doctrine prevents civil courts from becoming involved in matters that are at the heart of a church's internal governance. We couldn't agree more,' Sekulow added."
[I believe that secular courts have the power to force churches and religious societies to honor their by-laws if they have been violated. But in this case, it appears that the church leadership tricked the congregation, or a faction thereof, into changing the by-laws. So there is nothing the courts can do].
"JCC claimed in a statement that, at the 2023 meeting, the defendants 'deceived and manipulated the members of the church via a misleading vote to amend the by-laws in such a way to deny all 90,000+ members of their right to vote.'
“'Church members were not given copies of the proposed by-laws, nor were they told that if they voted for the new by-laws, they would never again have transparency to the financial affairs and governance of the church or be permitted to vote on any church business going forward,' stated JCC.
“'The Senior Pastor, without a vote of the membership or a board of trustees elected by the members, now has ultimate control over the church and its $1 Billion in assets that came from tithes and offerings.'”
Judge sides with Houston's Second Baptist against members opposed to bylaws change
A judge has largely sided with a Texas megachurch in a lawsuit brought by members who accused church leadership of improperly changing church bylaws on voting and accountability
www.christianpost.com
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While I agree with the courts that it's none of their business to adjudicate what constitutes a biblical church and hence to interfere in a church organization's governance, it does seem to me (based on what I read in that article) that what Second Baptist did with their bylaws was a manipulative dirty trick. If the congregation no longer has the ability to hold their leadership to account, then arguably their best recourse would be to vote with their feet.
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For those who want to research the Second Baptist controversy further, there are these web sites from the plaintiffs:
"The Senior Pastor, without a vote of the membership or a board of trustees elected by the members, now has ultimate control over the church and its $1 Billion in assets that came from tithes and offerings. The Senior Pastor can, at any time, for any reason:
www.jeremiahcounsel.org
"There are many other powers given to the Senior Pastor in the new by-laws, but the greatest concern to highlight is that this unchecked control does not stop with the current leader. The new by-laws not only give unconstrained power to the current Senior Pastor, but also to every Senior Pastor that follows."
www.jeremiahcounsel.org
A lot of Baptist churches are craftily eliminating the right of congregational voting, by having their people vote to approve the model constitution of the Christian Law Association of Seminole, Florida, which states that "The eligible membership of the church has certain limited areas to exercise a vote. Members may not vote to initiate any church action, rather the vote of a member is to confirm and ratify the direction of the church as determined by the pastor and the board of deacons."
When this model constitution was proposed at my IFB church, I pointed out to the members in a congregational meeting that this clause was in there, buried in all the fine print. I was not trying to make trouble, but I wanted the people to understand that they were being asked to give up their right to vote freely on all future matters. I asked the pastor to give us his interpretation of this clause, and he declined to do so. Afterward, he attacked me for bringing up this issue, even though he had publicly encouraged us to state our views and said that he didn't care which way the vote went, one way or another. As it turned out, he did care very much, and he condemned me for challenging his authority and causing division, trying to take over the church, etc, etc. I voted with my feet and I left that the church and the IFB movement.
"The Senior Pastor, without a vote of the membership or a board of trustees elected by the members, now has ultimate control over the church and its $1 Billion in assets that came from tithes and offerings. The Senior Pastor can, at any time, for any reason:
- Sell the church or merge it with any other church, even if the transaction is with a family member.
- Close or sell any campus.
- Close, sell, or dramatically increase tuition at Second Baptist School instead of continuing to subsidize it as a ministry of the church.
- Raise the Senior Pastor’s salary and that of his leadership, to any amount, in total secrecy.
- Appoint the next Senior Pastor, without a search process, or approval by an independent board."
Press Release | Jeremiah Counsel
www.jeremiahcounsel.org
"There are many other powers given to the Senior Pastor in the new by-laws, but the greatest concern to highlight is that this unchecked control does not stop with the current leader. The new by-laws not only give unconstrained power to the current Senior Pastor, but also to every Senior Pastor that follows."
Letter to SBC Members | Jeremiah Counsel
www.jeremiahcounsel.org
A lot of Baptist churches are craftily eliminating the right of congregational voting, by having their people vote to approve the model constitution of the Christian Law Association of Seminole, Florida, which states that "The eligible membership of the church has certain limited areas to exercise a vote. Members may not vote to initiate any church action, rather the vote of a member is to confirm and ratify the direction of the church as determined by the pastor and the board of deacons."
When this model constitution was proposed at my IFB church, I pointed out to the members in a congregational meeting that this clause was in there, buried in all the fine print. I was not trying to make trouble, but I wanted the people to understand that they were being asked to give up their right to vote freely on all future matters. I asked the pastor to give us his interpretation of this clause, and he declined to do so. Afterward, he attacked me for bringing up this issue, even though he had publicly encouraged us to state our views and said that he didn't care which way the vote went, one way or another. As it turned out, he did care very much, and he condemned me for challenging his authority and causing division, trying to take over the church, etc, etc. I voted with my feet and I left that the church and the IFB movement.
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I’ve come to the conclusion that a pastors authority starts and stops with scripture. If he demands people do something outside of the words of scripture he’s demanding something of Gods people that God doesn’t demand.
In other words, he’s basically saying, God didn’t put it in scripture but should have.
In other words, he’s basically saying, God didn’t put it in scripture but should have.
Best post yet
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I’ve witnessed firsthand young (immature in the faith) Christians elect to say that their interpretation of Scripture was right so the “authority of Scriptures” argument has chinks when the one applying it is biased towards their ignorance and/or carnality. For example, I once heard a newly minted Christian say something to the effect “pastor, I’m not giving up marijuana because God gave it to us and said it was good” based on….
“And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.”
Genesis 1:29 KJV
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"Great! Here, smoke this poison ivy."
That verse only supports making special brownies with it.
And take a swig of hemlock while you're at it.
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My response would be, go ahead do what you gotta do and let me know how that turns out for you.
Textbook stoner stupidity.
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You can’t fix lazy and you can’t fix stupid.
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Ironic that a supporter of Nazi Nick would post this.
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How do I support him?
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Or gummies.