Paying Your Tithe

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subllibrm

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I have always wondered why people say they "pay" their tithe. Wouldn't his betray their thought that it is from compulsion rather than from a cheerful heart?

FWIW we give an amount that normally exceeds 10% of our gross income. That is from my wife an I praying through the whole process. Not just how much but why, where, when and even sometimes who.
 
I would say that it's just a "figure of speech" that people/we use at times. Nuttin' more......... nuttin' less.



 
Do you believe all things done in obedience to a command are by compulsion?

Different question, why does the phrase"pay" the tithe evoke thoughts of compulsion whereas "prayed for a friend" different?  We are commanded to pray in many places.  Does the fact that something is commanded by the Lord always mean compulsion is involved?  If not, how do you determine when the phraseology hints at compulsion (versus "free will" or whatever other concept you have in mind)?
 
Good to hear from you Al. Hope things are well with you and yours.


 
ALAYMAN said:
Do you believe all things done in obedience to a command are by compulsion?

Different question, why does the phrase"pay" the tithe evoke thoughts of compulsion whereas "prayed for a friend" different?  We are commanded to pray in many places.  Does the fact that something is commanded by the Lord always mean compulsion is involved?  If not, how do you determine when the phraseology hints at compulsion (versus "free will" or whatever other concept you have in mind)?
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I'm not sure I see the connection with prayer. I don't recall hearing anyone say "well I have my prayer duties in for the day" or some such. The reason I hear compulsion in the phrase is because I "pay" my phone bill but I "give" my offering.

And we told not to give by compulsion:

2 Corinthians 9:7
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
 
"So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do."


 
Bob H said:
I would say that it's just a "figure of speech" that people/we use at times. Nuttin' more......... nuttin' less.
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Maybe, but frequently, the words people use reflect their thoughts (how they look at things).

I suspect that people who "pay" their tithes view the tithe as a required amount to avert the curse of God; it is distinguished from "offerings", which they are allowed to "give" to.

 
A look back in history at "paying the tithe". People who teach "paying the tithe" are simply practicing the traditions of the Roman Catholic Church.
It is so easy to learn the history of tithing, but I suspect most IFBs would not want to know that much about it.
After all Mal 3:10 will do the trick for those members who do not study the Bible on their own.

"In the Middle Ages, the Catholic church in Europe collected a tax of its own, separate from the kings' taxes, which was called a tithe. Tithe means "one-tenth" because people were supposed to give the Church one-tenth of all the income they earned. The priests and bishops kept the tithes in tithe barns like this one."

tithebarngermany.jpg


"You had to pay the tithe because otherwise the priest or bishop would excommunicate you. You might say, "So what? I didn't want to go to church anyway," but in the Middle Ages most people didn't feel that way - they wanted to go to church and get forgiven for their sins so they could go to Heaven after the Last Judgment."

"Besides, even if you didn't care about Heaven, being excommunicated was a very serious thing - nobody else was allowed to talk to a person who had been excommunicated, or sell them anything, so you couldn't buy food, or go to work, or anything. Even your children and your parents were not supposed to speak to you."

http://quatr.us/medieval/religion/tithes.htm
 
The Practice of Tithing is Unbiblical

CONCLUSION

"We have seen that tithing formed an important part of the Old Covenant which was ratified at Mount Sinai. This Mosaic code came to a conclusion when the veil of the temple was torn when our Saviour expired upon the cross. Christians now live under the New Covenant. Both the Apostle Paul and the writer of the anonymous Book of Hebrews plainly show that we are no longer subject to the legalistic Levitical system.
It is true that tithes are also mentioned prior to Sinai in connection with both Abraham and Jacob, but, as we have seen, we can deduce little from those examples for two reasons:
1. Tithing was not confined to Israel, the concept appears to have existed elsewhere in the ancient world.
2. Strictly speaking, those examples were not even a 'tithe' in the way in which that word is now often used, they were freewill offerings of a tenth."

http://www.ukapologetics.net/tithe.htm
 
Here is the modern day Church of England's take on tithing.

Even they do not push unscriptural tithing, but a more balanced view that should interest today's IFBs.
If you are into tithing here is a rather well-argued paper on tithing. You should thank me for highlighting the Church of England's stand on tithing today and you may want to use these arguments in your presentations, the work has been done for you.

You are welcome.


"Whilst there is no absolutely unambiguous New Testament instruction to Christians to give 10% of
their income, there is absolutely clear, unambiguous NT teaching to give, to give generously and
proportionately, to those in need, to support fellow Christians, and to support the ministry. The biblical
material on tithing addresses each of these central themes directly. Tithing would have been the
acknowledged base-line of giving for people of faith, at least those with a Jewish background and it
gives us a realistic yet challenging starting point. For these reasons, tithing is worth talking about.
But first, a little background."

http://www.parishresources.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/Give10.pdf
 
You find out very quickly that when someone preaches on the 'tithe' they really don't want the 'tithe'. They want cash.  The utter nonsense that I heard over the years that came from hac and fbch about this subject is unbelievable.

For instance: We were taught that if you were destitute and had not a dime to your name and it was either go without food for your family or tithe that you were supposed to tithe. If you were broke and someone gave you a haircut you were supposed to turn that into cash and pay a tenth of what it was worth. If you were broke and someone gave you a car you were supposed to somehow turn it into cash and tithe on what it was worth. I could go on and on about this.

We had a teacher who always used to brag on how much he gave. For instance, he said that when he was hired he went to business office and asked how much all his benefits were worth and tithed off of that. When he got meals in dining hall he tithed off of that.  If you haven't tithed on all who haven't tithed at all was his mantra. When he was teaching on tithing from the ot I once asked him if when the farmers left some of their grain in the fields for the poor and the widows if the poor and widows were supposed to tithe on what they got. He said yes. I also asked him if we were actually contributing to the sin of the homeless people when we brought them to church and fed them if they couldn't tithe on the meal.
 
Bob H said:
I would say that it's just a "figure of speech" that people/we use at times. Nuttin' more......... nuttin' less.
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For the most part, this is absolutely true.
I'm not a proponent of giving the tithe...but still refer to our giving as tithing.
 
BALAAM said:
You find out very quickly that when someone preaches on the 'tithe' they really don't want the 'tithe'. They want cash.  The utter nonsense that I heard over the years that came from hac and fbch about this subject is unbelievable.

For instance: We were taught that if you were destitute and had not a dime to your name and it was either go without food for your family or tithe that you were supposed to tithe. If you were broke and someone gave you a haircut you were supposed to turn that into cash and pay a tenth of what it was worth. If you were broke and someone gave you a car you were supposed to somehow turn it into cash and tithe on what it was worth. I could go on and on about this.

We had a teacher who always used to brag on how much he gave. For instance, he said that when he was hired he went to business office and asked how much all his benefits were worth and tithed off of that. When he got meals in dining hall he tithed off of that.  If you haven't tithed on all who haven't tithed at all was his mantra. When he was teaching on tithing from the ot I once asked him if when the farmers left some of their grain in the fields for the poor and the widows if the poor and widows were supposed to tithe on what they got. He said yes.
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Check; having attend a church run by a HAC graduate, my friends and I heard much of the same "teaching"...  It really seemed to be a burden being put on people that was incompatible with Jesus' statement that "His yoke was EASY and His burden was LIGHT".
 
When you sit under the ministry of an IFBX preacher who says if you do not pay your tithe, you are stealing from God, Mal 3:10.

As a teenager I payed my tithe as I did not want to be a thief so I pay the tithe under compulsion.

As I got older the store house tithing by preacher mainly was preachers wanting to build an empire as was the case in the preacher described above.  He wanted to be known as Jack Hyles South.

So I believe in being a cheerful giver.  When Christ said it is finished, I take it that Mal 3:10 is now put to bed.
 
Strictly speaking, to "pay" means to exchange money for goods or services, so it's not the proper word for a monetary gift (given under compulsion or otherwise).

However, I think that informally the word "pay" is often used to mean "give someone money," and I wouldn't necessarily read something bad into it.
 
Ransom said:
Strictly speaking, to "pay" means to exchange money for goods or services, so it's not the proper word for a monetary gift (given under compulsion or otherwise).

However, I think that informally the word "pay" is often used to mean "give someone money," and I wouldn't necessarily read something bad into it.
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Entirely possible...
 
Tim said:
Hand over your tithe
Give back 10% of your income
Don't rob God of his share
One could come up with many more clever ways of expressing the exchange of 10% or more of their income back to God.
From where I come from in my understanding of the Biblical teachings - it is all God's and it seems insulting to separate 10% alone as His. We are not under law, but grace, and I give from the perspective of grace, love and compassion. I give as a steward of all that God has given me - and this includes my time as well.

Sadly - we fail and don't give 100% in this mortal flesh. And once again even in this topic of giving we find proof of our need for God's grace to save our sorry flesh. And, for that reason, I see the logic in a calculated 10% gift to keep one in check with their selfish desires.
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I one believes that we are required to give a min. of 10% of our income plus any voluntary offering above and beyond that then I think "paying your tithe" is a proper phrase. Many Christians, not just baptists, hold to this view.

If you do not believe God expects everyone to give at least 10%, then the "Pay" makes no sense. I no not pay my offerings I give them willingly. The tithe on the other hand I see as a debt. I understand the other position and do not fault others for doing what they believe is right.

I know some people who do not believe that we must give 10%, yet including their missions giving and other offerings they give well over 20% and still live a very upscale lifestyle. 
 
Luke 18:23 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Mark 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.?

Luke 12:33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.?
 
sword said:
Luke 18:23 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Mark 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.?

Luke 12:33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.?
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Either you believe Jesus lied here, or you believe in works salvation...Or, maybe, there is a third option?

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