Pensacola Christian ‘Cult’: inside the college shaping America’s private school curriculum

[Ransom]

Actually, there is a much closer relationship than one may actually care to acknowledge. PCC has a standing rule that female students at PCC ARE NOT to date or interact with the "Ruckmanites" across town from them at Pensacola Bible Institute!

I knew that, but I wouldn't call that a "relationship," when the original question was whether they were the same school. They happen to be two Bible colleges in Pensacola, no more close relationship than that.

PCC also doesn't allow its students to use the library facilities at the local secular colleges (or didn't use to). I wouldn't draw a connection from PCC to the University of Western Florida from that.

 

[Ransom]

What’s the reason they can’t date them? Seems very odd.

I would imagine they mutually regard each other as false teachers.

 

[abcaines]

I would imagine they mutually regard each other as false teachers.

These days, I'd say that is a definite. I don't know what PCC's take on Ruckman was 40 years ago. Although it was evident that they were almost mutually exclusive of each other, I don't recall anyone from PCC outright criticizing them. It could be that around me, a very young believer, people were careful not to be overly critical. If that's the case, I appreciate the graceful example they presented.

 

[Ransom]

I don't know what PCC's take on Ruckman was 40 years ago. Although it was evident that they were almost mutually exclusive of each other, I don't recall anyone from PCC outright criticizing them.

Sometime in the 90s, PCC articulated their position on the KJV by aligning themselves with the views of Theodore Letis, who was no Ruckmanite. I believe they wanted to hold to a strict-ish view on the KJV without associating with the extremists like Ruckman and Hyles.

 

[DrHuk&Duck]

These days, I'd say that is a definite. I don't know what PCC's take on Ruckman was 40 years ago. Although it was evident that they were almost mutually exclusive of each other, I don't recall anyone from PCC outright criticizing them. It could be that around me, a very young believer, people were careful not to be overly critical. If that's the case, I appreciate the graceful example they presented.

Is this Ruckman’s church considered IFB?

 

[abcaines]

Is this Ruckman’s church considered IFB?

I suppose it depends on who you ask.

There is a church in town pastored by a PBI grad that definitely calls itself IFB. I've met a few of them and attended a service with them. The service was actually quite good and they were very warm. I wouldn't join them but I don't have any bones to pick with them. Some of their members are merchants (various businesses) and from what I have seen, are honest and reliable.

 

[Ransom]

Is this Ruckman’s church considered IFB?

Independent (unaffiliated) and Baptist, so I guess they meet the definition, though just barely. Questionable whether an institution that worships a translation of the Bible really counts as Christian at all, though.

 

[DrHuk&Duck]

It’s all coming back now. I remember reading about Peter Ruckman back when his son was involved in the murder-suicide some years ago: https://www.rrstar.com/story/news/crime/2018/03/07/final-messages-from-p-s/13346655007/

 

[illinoisguy]

The Ruckmanite churches in my area (including the one where I was a member) not only strongly identified as IFB, but they rejected all other IFB churches in the area as being not true churches. My experience among the Ruckmanites is that they tend to be extremist nutcases, not only on the Bible translation issue, but on various other issues such as dictatorial preacher rule, Trail of Blood/chain-link succession from John the Baptist, woman's slacks, etc. I would not ever join a Ruckmanite or quasi-Ruckmanite church again. I suppose such churches do some good, but by taking everything to a lunatic extreme, they may be doing more harm than good.

Peter Ruckman is consistently identified as IFB in various references to him on the Internet, including Wikipedia. In the 60s, Peter Ruckman shared a platform with IFB stalwarts, Florida Bob Gray (not Texas Bob) and Hugh Pyle:

 

[AverageJoe]

A lot of kids who end up at schools like PCC don’t really have a choice. I grew up in that environment and know many kids who had to submit to the “my way or the highway” mentality. Sure, at 18 a kid is legally an adult, but when you don’t have a job or a house or maybe even a car, you don’t really have a choice in some situations. I understand the background because I lived it.

I lived it as well. In the IFB cult there were many rules enforced and the chances of being "in trouble" with "Pastor" was always there. My parents were part owners of a Western wear store, and my mother wore blue jeans to work in there, as did the other partners wife. The pastor didn't like them wearing jeans stating that it made them look "cheap." However, when it came to needing a new leather belt or a great pair of shoes, he was right there looking for discounts, as he was the pastor of the church. It was the same with members of the church. Because of the actions of many of these people, the pastor included, I "served God" in action,, but not with my heart. I was forced to go to Christian school from 8th grade to graduation from high school because the secular schools had pornography, teachers who were encouraging us to "have sex with several different partners of both sexes, and older adults" as well....but, the real kicker that made several of the church's people pull their kids out of secular schools was that we were going to be forced to take "Square Dancing" lessons for physical education for six weeks. UGH! The porno and everything else was overlooked, and we were allowed to stay in the secular schools until that "dance thing" as it came to be known, came into view.

 

[voicecrying]

The porno and everything else was overlooked, and we were allowed to stay in the secular schools until that "dance thing" as it came to be known, came into view.

I'll make sure to remember to block you on Facebook from viewing the videos I post when I take my wife line-dancing. I don't want to cause you to stumble.

 

[Ransom]

but, the real kicker that made several of the church's people pull their kids out of secular schools was that we were going to be forced to take "Square Dancing" lessons for physical education for six weeks. UGH!

I'd hate to think impressionable young adolescents were being taught to do-si-do in a lascivious fashion.

 

[Baptist Renegade]

You don't, always.

There was talk other previous FFF of how HAC didn't give you the student handbook until you signed up.

Or a school might change its rules mid-stream, after you've signed.

Either way, it's no longer what you signed up for, and you may or may not have recourse to criticize them.

Thanks to the WWW, PCC (and many others of their ilk) has a legalistic reputation that precedes itself and is easy for one to do their own research. I understand though that kids are often raised in their "Fundamentalist Bubble" where they are taught to stay away from such satanic influences as the FFF or whatever so I am appreciative of this as well.

Stories like this show the absolute bankruptcy of an externalistic, performance-based Christianity. I am certain there are good folk on the faculty of PCC and no doubt they are well-intentioned regarding all of the rules and legalism but much of this is built upon a faulty theology which must be shored up and whitewashed with externalistic and legalistic STAAAAANDEEEEEEERDS!

The good thing these days is that places like PCC, BJU, and WCBC are now accredited so one should no longer feel entraped should they desire to change their educational direction. They can take any earned credits and transfer them elsewhere and I would recommend they do just that.

 

[DrHuk&Duck]

The good thing these days is that places like PCC, BJU, and WCBC are now accredited so one should no longer feel entraped should they desire to change their educational direction. They can take any earned credits and transfer them elsewhere and I would recommend they do just that.

BJU is fully (regionally) accredited. PCC and WCBC are TRACS (nationally) accredited, which is basically worthless. With rare exceptions, a kid trying to transfer college credits from a college like PCC to any regular college or state university, will most likely not get any credits transferred.

 

[Baptist Renegade]

I have come to the realization that not every rule that we were exposed to at college needed to apply to the rest of my life.
I have also come to the understanding that at college, there are young people with hormones raging who are living together in very close proximity, 24 hours out of the day.
I have gone to two secular colleges, the University of Pittsburgh, and Burlington Community College in Burlington NJ, to help me get my Associates Degree and I have gone to a Fundamental Christian College, Hyles Anderson College.
The secular colleges really don't care about your morality, we did whatever we wanted with whomever we wanted, drank what we wanted, skipped class when we wanted, dressed how we wanted, smoked what we wanted, etc.
It's only by the grace of God that I survived my year at Pitt.
The leadership of the Conservative Christian college believes, and I believe correctly, that they have a responsibility as Christian educators and mentors, to assure that as best as possible to foster an atmosphere that insures purity and Christian character.
And that is their 'liberty' to do so.
It is my liberty to say whether I want to be exposed to that or not.
We ALL have choices, even those who said that they didn't have a choice.
You could have refused to go and made your own way and gone to the school of your own choice.
You could have gone to the military like I did and receive technical training and some money to help with college.
If your parents refused to help you go to college unless you went to a "Christian college of their choice", you could have moved out of the house and gone to a community college.
Please don't say you don't have a choice...
We all have choices...

On another note, it's interesting that I had only been saved for 3.5 years when I went to Bible College.
When I got saved, I was a good time rock and roll, drinking, cussing fornicator and at times 'hell raiser.'
I learned the importance of devotion to Christ, godliness and separation while in my local church after I got saved.
But my involvement in the world was not all that far behind when I first went to Bible college.
I'm so thankful for the boundaries that I had while I was there.
Probably kept me from a lot of heartache.

I agree there should be standards - BIBLICAL standards or standards reflecting basic good manners and moral character! Every institution has these and without them, there would be no real "learning environment" in which to speak. If you are preparing for ministry, it should be in an environment which is conducive to this and anyone not serious about the ministry may want to consider another path of education but such thinking is often anathema to certain "Funny-Mental-ists" is it not? Therefore, we often try to force our kids into "molds" that perhaps God never intended!

Prior to sending our kids to the wolves at "Satan U," perhaps they need to be better grounded in their faith regarding what they believe and why they believe it! We are watching many of our kids going off to Universities, becoming "Secularized," and having no interest in the things of God and we must come to the conclusion that perhaps whatever "Faith" they had was never actually real to begin with! There is a great need for biblical apologetics to be taught at the High School level and should be something that is constantly brought up in any good "College and Career" Sunday School class!

 

[Baptist Renegade]

What’s the reason they can’t date them? Seems very odd.

Ruckmanites are regarded as a bunch of undisciplined "Rebel Rousers" which is largely true.

 

[Baptist Renegade]

I don't know if that rule was in effect when I was stationed there in 84-85 but it makes sense.

I remember Ruckmanites out on the street corners yelling at the traffic.

I remember talking with one and I almost want to say Jim Schettler was with me... He was explaining to us that the street preaching more of an exercise for students of PBI in standing boldly for the gospel than it was anything else.

I was involved in this sort of "Street Preaching" while stationed out in San Diego. I also graduated from a Bible Institute that was largely styled after PBI. We had the same mindset - that street preaching builds "Character" but I often went out there having some good fruitful conversations with people that all went away once the "preaching" started!

 

[abcaines]

I was involved in this sort of "Street Preaching" while stationed out in San Diego. I also graduated from a Bible Institute that was largely styled after PBI. We had the same mindset - that street preaching builds "Character" but I often went out there having some good fruitful conversations with people that all went away once the "preaching" started!

Back in 84-85, I had just begun growing in the Word and hadn't experienced many churches. I was not able to distinguish the nuances of orthodox Christianity; I knew what constituted a cult and which groups tended to be liberal but that was it. I tended to stick to groups that carried PCC's stamp of approval, which at the time, included John MacArthur! PBI wasn't so much approved but they weren't defined as being a cult either.

 

[Baptist Renegade]

Back in 84-85, I had just begun growing in the Word and hadn't experienced many churches. I was not able to distinguish the nuances of orthodox Christianity; I knew what constituted a cult and which groups tended to be liberal but that was it. I tended to stick to groups that carried PCC's stamp of approval, which at the time, included John MacArthur! PBI wasn't so much approved but they weren't defined as being a cult either.

Do you recall anyone speaking of "Double Inspiration" of the KJV while you were there? This was a subtle "Shot across the bow" to Pete Ruckman who supposedly believed that God "Inspired" the King James translators just as he inspired the original authors! This would be their primary point of contention.

 

[abcaines]

Do you recall anyone speaking of "Double Inspiration" of the KJV while you were there? This was a subtle "Shot across the bow" to Pete Ruckman who supposedly believed that God "Inspired" the King James translators just as he inspired the original authors! This would be their primary point of contention.

The following is an overly simplified version but...

KJVO was going around and I was getting caught up in it but it wasn't coming from PCC. Like I said, I didn't have the discernment at the time to distinguish between solid conservative thought and the more radical stuff. I knew there differences between the two but I didn't know how deep they were. To their credit, PCC kept to a more balanced position... They used KJV exclusively but it was never more than a preferred translation. Anytime I began repeating KJVO nonsense, which was based on phrases and standards, PCC folks didn't pay me much mind... Certainly no affirmation. I transferred to Virginia in late 85. The pastor of the IFB church I attended there eventually steered me towards the Masters College in 87.

The whole KJVO thing apparently came to a head after I moved out west. I think God had me where He wanted me and got me out of there before all the crap came down.