Piper's Son on Growing Up a PK

[Smellin Coffee]

Though my parents were not in church ministry, they were both heavily involved in Christian education, having been on faculty/staff at HAC during my childhood years. I certainly can relate a lot to what Barnabas Piper has to say...


http://jonathanmerritt.religionnews.com/2014/07/01/john-pipers-son-discusses-dysfunction-conflict-upbringing/

 

[christundivided]

RNS: A while back, your dad rather publicly enacted church discipline on your brother, and even excommunicated him from the church. Did you support this at the time?

BP: I understood. “Support” might be a bit too strong because it was too sad to be supportive of. My brother at that time was not a believer, by his own admission. So it was a case of removal from church membership after years of trying to restore him. Also to say my dad did the discipline isn’t quite fair. It was a decision by a board of elders. In all, I understood why it happened based on the church’s membership standards, but I always felt the sense that it had to do with the “manage your household” criteria out of 1 Timothy too. And that made it feel like something unique to a family in our position.
- See more at: http://jonathanmerritt.religionnews.com/2014/07/01/john-pipers-son-discusses-dysfunction-conflict-upbringing/#sthash.40MMSKiM.dpuf

I can't begin to express just how stupid this was..... STUPID...

I have never been a Piper fan and this just makes it worse.

 

[Ransom]

I can't begin to express just how stupid this was..... STUPID...

Well, thank God he gifted us with you. How else would we ever know what was stupid, without your standard to compare against? :

 

[ALAYMAN]

Sounds like a fairly balanced analysis of what the fish-bowl effect was like.  And the over-riding thing to take from it, assuming his perspective was legitimate, is that relational Chritianity must precede or take priority over simple dogma and propostional truth (but not at its expense).

 

[christundivided]

I can't begin to express just how stupid this was..... STUPID...

Well, thank God he gifted us with you. How else would we ever know what was stupid, without your standard to compare against? :

Your coo coo clock is stuck..... You've taken to repeating yourself over and over and over....

 

[christundivided]

RNS: A while back, your dad rather publicly enacted church discipline on your brother, and even excommunicated him from the church. Did you support this at the time?

BP: I understood. “Support” might be a bit too strong because it was too sad to be supportive of. My brother at that time was not a believer, by his own admission. So it was a case of removal from church membership after years of trying to restore him. Also to say my dad did the discipline isn’t quite fair. It was a decision by a board of elders. In all, I understood why it happened based on the church’s membership standards, but I always felt the sense that it had to do with the “manage your household” criteria out of 1 Timothy too. And that made it feel like something unique to a family in our position.
- See more at: http://jonathanmerritt.religionnews.com/2014/07/01/john-pipers-son-discusses-dysfunction-conflict-upbringing/#sthash.40MMSKiM.dpuf

I can't begin to express just how stupid this was..... STUPID...

I have never been a Piper fan and this just makes it worse.

I'd love to hear what is stupid about this?  Are there more details somewhere about Piper's wayward son?

Yes. Piper has talked openly about it. Google is sometimes your friend.

Our family went through something very similar with my brother and it was heartbreaking.  It was by far one of the most painful things I've ever experienced in my life, second only to watching my brother hauled off to prison.

I know there are people (like Ransom, Alayman, Tarheel and others here) that love to embarrass people. Yet, there is no such reason to do such things.

One of your problems is this concept all you have concerning this "exclusive club" you've worked to hard to build. Whether you will admit or not, you love the power. The control.... and you're entirely too influenced by the opinions of others. The excommunication wasn't for the son's benefit. Its was for Piper's and the "club managers" supposed reputation.

I have never and I MEAN NEVER understood why anyone would "church" or "excommunicate" those who have fallen away from God.

Its terrible. Horrible. Sinful. Prideful and IDIOTIC.

You've built these little "kingdoms" and you've got to keep up "appearances"!!!!!... what stupidity.

The Father of the "prodigal son" didn't erect a sign detailing the intricate details of his sons failures. He silently waited.

If you stopped thinking about your "clubs"..... you wouldn't make such stupid decisions.

 

[Ransom]

Your coo coo clock is stuck..... You've taken to repeating yourself over and over and over....

Says the broken record who can't disagree with anyone without also announcing how "stupid . . . STUPID" they are for having the audacity to disagree with his almighty pronouncements.

Pope christundivided I. Can I kiss your toe, O holy father?

 

[christundivided]

Your coo coo clock is stuck..... You've taken to repeating yourself over and over and over....

Says the broken record who can't disagree with anyone without also announcing how "stupid . . . STUPID" they are for having the audacity to disagree with his almighty pronouncements.

Pope christundivided I. Can I kiss your toe, O holy father?

Stupid is stupid.... even when Cardinal Ransom does it.

I know I've hurt your feelings..... but this is getting ridiculous. The only answer you've taken to give anymore is the nonsense you're using above. You've become worse than rsca.

(Yes. Contrary to reason and known scientific theory. Scott has feelings)

 

[christundivided]

Wow.  I was hoping for a kind response, but I should know better being that most of this forum is filled with bitter, hate-filled people.

Nonsense.

The situation with my brother was quite different than what the Piper's went through.  My brother was 16 and had been in trouble with the law a few times.  He was finally arrested and showed no remorse whatsoever.  My dad stepped down the following Sunday and didn't pastor again for nearly a decade.  There's a lot more to this story, but the bottom line is that my brother wasn't excommunicated.  Had he been an adult and pulling that kind of crap, he probably would have been.  Instead, my dad gave up his ministry in hopes of restoring his family.  As painful as that time in my life was, I learned a heck of a lot.  Turns out my brother is an a-list sociopath.  My experience with my brother has given me a great insight into the minds and actions of some of the IFB's most admired evangelists and preachers who are nothing more than sociopaths themselves.

Your father shouldn't have stepped down. I don't understand why your haven't changed your opinion since finding out your brother is a sociopath? I hope you realize that its not someone else's fault your brother is sick.

Anyway....Should Piper have walked away from his ministry?  Did his son's actions disqualify him?  Who's to say?  If his son was living at home and under his authority, then maybe so.  But, from what I understand, Piper's son was 19 and on his own. (However, there was a point when Piper walked away for awhile.  I'm wondering if it was during the time of his son's rebellion.)

Doesn't matter. Give me one verse in the Scriptures to support such a choice? Just one.

I'd be curious to know....would our IFB churches be different today if some of the scum of the movement (Hyles, Vineyard, Gray...) had been held accountable for their actions and excommunicated or removed from membership? 

The very fact your IFB tells the tale. You've got more problems than to just worry over which "scum" is in the pulpit. Have you ever heard the phrase "if the blind lead the blind"??

 

[ALAYMAN]

The very fact your IFB tells the tale. You've got more problems than worry over than which "scum" is in the pulpit. Have you ever heard the phrase "if the blind lead the blind"??

Ransom is right about your general manner of interaction with others.  No need to be intentionally offensive by use of personal attacks and ad hominem.  Try interacting with the substance of the post and not make it personal.

 

[christundivided]

The very fact you're IFB tells the tale. You've got more problems than worry over than which "scum" is in the pulpit. Have you ever heard the phrase "if the blind lead the blind"??

Ransom is right about your general manner of interaction with others.  No need to be intentionally offensive by use of personal attacks and ad hominem.  Try interacting with the substance of the post and not make it personal.

I did.

I could care less what you think about my interaction. Both of you "can't hang." You both don't like it when someone challenges what you believe. You look foolish throwing around your nonsense in the forum and I'm not going stop pointing out your stupidity. 

By the way.... How did I personally attack you? and where is my "ad hominem"? Feel free to quote me.

I do sincerely believe that Independent Fundamental Baptist are idiots. That's my sincere belief. In fact, I think I'll start thread concerning why...

 

[BALAAM]

RNS: A while back, your dad rather publicly enacted church discipline on your brother, and even excommunicated him from the church. Did you support this at the time?

BP: I understood. “Support” might be a bit too strong because it was too sad to be supportive of. My brother at that time was not a believer, by his own admission. So it was a case of removal from church membership after years of trying to restore him. Also to say my dad did the discipline isn’t quite fair. It was a decision by a board of elders. In all, I understood why it happened based on the church’s membership standards, but I always felt the sense that it had to do with the “manage your household” criteria out of 1 Timothy too. And that made it feel like something unique to a family in our position.
- See more at: http://jonathanmerritt.religionnews.com/2014/07/01/john-pipers-son-discusses-dysfunction-conflict-upbringing/#sthash.40MMSKiM.dpuf

I can't begin to express just how stupid this was..... STUPID...

I have never been a Piper fan and this just makes it worse.

I'd love to hear what is stupid about this?  Are there more details somewhere about Piper's wayward son?

Yes. Piper has talked openly about it. Google is sometimes your friend.

Our family went through something very similar with my brother and it was heartbreaking.  It was by far one of the most painful things I've ever experienced in my life, second only to watching my brother hauled off to prison.

I know there are people (like Ransom, Alayman, Tarheel and others here) that love to embarrass people. Yet, there is no such reason to do such things.

One of your problems is this concept all you have concerning this "exclusive club" you've worked to hard to build. Whether you will admit or not, you love the power. The control.... and you're entirely too influenced by the opinions of others. The excommunication wasn't for the son's benefit. Its was for Piper's and the "club managers" supposed reputation.

I have never and I MEAN NEVER understood why anyone would "church" or "excommunicate" those who have fallen away from God.

Its terrible. Horrible. Sinful. Prideful and IDIOTIC.

You've built these little "kingdoms" and you've got to keep up "appearances"!!!!!... what stupidity.

The Father of the "prodigal son" didn't erect a sign detailing the intricate details of his sons failures. He silently waited.

If you stopped thinking about your "clubs"..... you wouldn't make such stupid decisions.

I personally think that you do a good job embarrassing yourself without any help from anyone else.

 

[christundivided]

RNS: A while back, your dad rather publicly enacted church discipline on your brother, and even excommunicated him from the church. Did you support this at the time?

BP: I understood. “Support” might be a bit too strong because it was too sad to be supportive of. My brother at that time was not a believer, by his own admission. So it was a case of removal from church membership after years of trying to restore him. Also to say my dad did the discipline isn’t quite fair. It was a decision by a board of elders. In all, I understood why it happened based on the church’s membership standards, but I always felt the sense that it had to do with the “manage your household” criteria out of 1 Timothy too. And that made it feel like something unique to a family in our position.
- See more at: http://jonathanmerritt.religionnews.com/2014/07/01/john-pipers-son-discusses-dysfunction-conflict-upbringing/#sthash.40MMSKiM.dpuf

I can't begin to express just how stupid this was..... STUPID...

I have never been a Piper fan and this just makes it worse.

I'd love to hear what is stupid about this?  Are there more details somewhere about Piper's wayward son?

Yes. Piper has talked openly about it. Google is sometimes your friend.

Our family went through something very similar with my brother and it was heartbreaking.  It was by far one of the most painful things I've ever experienced in my life, second only to watching my brother hauled off to prison.

I know there are people (like Ransom, Alayman, Tarheel and others here) that love to embarrass people. Yet, there is no such reason to do such things.

One of your problems is this concept all you have concerning this "exclusive club" you've worked to hard to build. Whether you will admit or not, you love the power. The control.... and you're entirely too influenced by the opinions of others. The excommunication wasn't for the son's benefit. Its was for Piper's and the "club managers" supposed reputation.

I have never and I MEAN NEVER understood why anyone would "church" or "excommunicate" those who have fallen away from God.

Its terrible. Horrible. Sinful. Prideful and IDIOTIC.

You've built these little "kingdoms" and you've got to keep up "appearances"!!!!!... what stupidity.

The Father of the "prodigal son" didn't erect a sign detailing the intricate details of his sons failures. He silently waited.

If you stopped thinking about your "clubs"..... you wouldn't make such stupid decisions.

I personally think that you do a good job embarrassing yourself without any help from anyone else.

I personally believe you enjoy being a false prophet. Talk about embarrassing.... I expect all you idiotic independant baptist to stick together....

Oh... Expect when you finally find one of them has been screwing your daughter..... or taking your money....... Then you have a problem with them.... Not before.

 

[Ransom]

Stupid is stupid.... even when Cardinal Ransom does it.

Oh dear. I'm stupid too! Why, that caught me completely by surprise.

 

[christundivided]

Stupid is stupid.... even when Cardinal Ransom does it.

Oh dear. I'm stupid too! Why, that caught me completely by surprise.

I did say you had "feelings". I thought you would have taken that as a compliment. I'm certain there is a long line of people that believe you just might have the beginnings of a truly Artificial Intelligence..... and I mean that in the nicest possible way. You've always been a little rigid and mechanical. I hope that helps you to become a better person. A more caring man.... willing to "hug" it out from time to time.

<hug><hug>

 

[BALAAM]

RNS: A while back, your dad rather publicly enacted church discipline on your brother, and even excommunicated him from the church. Did you support this at the time?

BP: I understood. “Support” might be a bit too strong because it was too sad to be supportive of. My brother at that time was not a believer, by his own admission. So it was a case of removal from church membership after years of trying to restore him. Also to say my dad did the discipline isn’t quite fair. It was a decision by a board of elders. In all, I understood why it happened based on the church’s membership standards, but I always felt the sense that it had to do with the “manage your household” criteria out of 1 Timothy too. And that made it feel like something unique to a family in our position.
- See more at: http://jonathanmerritt.religionnews.com/2014/07/01/john-pipers-son-discusses-dysfunction-conflict-upbringing/#sthash.40MMSKiM.dpuf

I can't begin to express just how stupid this was..... STUPID...

I have never been a Piper fan and this just makes it worse.

I'd love to hear what is stupid about this?  Are there more details somewhere about Piper's wayward son?

Yes. Piper has talked openly about it. Google is sometimes your friend.

Our family went through something very similar with my brother and it was heartbreaking.  It was by far one of the most painful things I've ever experienced in my life, second only to watching my brother hauled off to prison.

I know there are people (like Ransom, Alayman, Tarheel and others here) that love to embarrass people. Yet, there is no such reason to do such things.

One of your problems is this concept all you have concerning this "exclusive club" you've worked to hard to build. Whether you will admit or not, you love the power. The control.... and you're entirely too influenced by the opinions of others. The excommunication wasn't for the son's benefit. Its was for Piper's and the "club managers" supposed reputation.

I have never and I MEAN NEVER understood why anyone would "church" or "excommunicate" those who have fallen away from God.

Its terrible. Horrible. Sinful. Prideful and IDIOTIC.

You've built these little "kingdoms" and you've got to keep up "appearances"!!!!!... what stupidity.

The Father of the "prodigal son" didn't erect a sign detailing the intricate details of his sons failures. He silently waited.

If you stopped thinking about your "clubs"..... you wouldn't make such stupid decisions.

I personally think that you do a good job embarrassing yourself without any help from anyone else.

I personally believe you enjoy being a false prophet. Talk about embarrassing.... I expect all you idiotic independant baptist to stick together....

Oh... Expect when you finally find one of them has been screwing your daughter..... or taking your money....... Then you have a problem with them.... Not before.

You are funny. Dude, I didn't choose the name because he was a false prophet. I chose the name because every once in a while I am forced to speak with an as-! And you fit the bill!

 

[Biker]

When the Son realized he wasn't saved, that's the first step to honesty.

The first step which is required, to become saved.

It's a bit sad he was excommunicated but we don't know the whole story behind that

For the record, being in trouble with the law isn't necessarily a sin in and of itself. A church wouldn't ex communicate a church member for that in and of itself... or you wouldn't have much of a congregation left

 

[BandGuy]

RNS: A while back, your dad rather publicly enacted church discipline on your brother, and even excommunicated him from the church. Did you support this at the time?

BP: I understood. “Support” might be a bit too strong because it was too sad to be supportive of. My brother at that time was not a believer, by his own admission. So it was a case of removal from church membership after years of trying to restore him. Also to say my dad did the discipline isn’t quite fair. It was a decision by a board of elders. In all, I understood why it happened based on the church’s membership standards, but I always felt the sense that it had to do with the “manage your household” criteria out of 1 Timothy too. And that made it feel like something unique to a family in our position.
- See more at: http://jonathanmerritt.religionnews.com/2014/07/01/john-pipers-son-discusses-dysfunction-conflict-upbringing/#sthash.40MMSKiM.dpuf

I can't begin to express just how stupid this was..... STUPID...

I have never been a Piper fan and this just makes it worse.

I'd love to hear what is stupid about this?  Are there more details somewhere about Piper's wayward son?

Yes. Piper has talked openly about it. Google is sometimes your friend.

Our family went through something very similar with my brother and it was heartbreaking.  It was by far one of the most painful things I've ever experienced in my life, second only to watching my brother hauled off to prison.

I know there are people (like Ransom, Alayman, Tarheel and others here) that love to embarrass people. Yet, there is no such reason to do such things.

One of your problems is this concept all you have concerning this "exclusive club" you've worked to hard to build. Whether you will admit or not, you love the power. The control.... and you're entirely too influenced by the opinions of others. The excommunication wasn't for the son's benefit. Its was for Piper's and the "club managers" supposed reputation.

I have never and I MEAN NEVER understood why anyone would "church" or "excommunicate" those who have fallen away from God.

Its terrible. Horrible. Sinful. Prideful and IDIOTIC.

You've built these little "kingdoms" and you've got to keep up "appearances"!!!!!... what stupidity.

The Father of the "prodigal son" didn't erect a sign detailing the intricate details of his sons failures. He silently waited.

If you stopped thinking about your "clubs"..... you wouldn't make such stupid decisions.

At great risk of being called "Stupid", I offer the following questions:
1.  Do you not believe in regenerate Church Membership?
2.  Do you also believe the Apostle Paul was "stupid" (1 Corinthians 5:13)?
3.  How would you have dealt with the situation differently?

Thanks.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

mamamia:
Wow.  I was hoping for a kind response, but I should know better being that most of this forum is filled with bitter, hate-filled people. 

Bitter people really resent you using that word here.....

 

[Ransom]

I did say you had "feelings".

What a stupid thing to say.

I thought you would have taken that as a compliment.

You thought something stupid.

I'm certain there is a long line of people that believe you just might have the beginnings of a truly Artificial Intelligence.....

Certainty about stupid things is a sure sign of stupidity.

and I mean that in the nicest possible way.

And, as usual, stated it in the stupidest possible way.

You've always been a little rigid and mechanical.

You've always been a lot stupid.

I hope that helps you to become a better person. A more caring man....

Sure. When you've become a less stupid one.

willing to "hug" it out from time to time.

Hugging is stupid.

<stupid>christundivided</stupid>