Question for someone who is still IFB please...

[BALAAM]

Actually, I think the OT law could be divided up three ways. Moral, ceremonial, and civil.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Actually, I think the OT law could be divided up three ways. Moral, ceremonial, and civil.

Assuming this is true, there's nothing in the Bible that says any variation of "From now on, you must follow the moral and civil law.  Ceremonial is not required."  And it wouldn't even do any good if such a verse existed, since the Bible itself does not define and identify different categories of OT law. 

 

[FSSL]

Categories would be an incorrect way to view the laws...

Every law had either/and moral, ceremonial and civic aspects. There were overlaps in certain laws and some laws were simply just good for the comradery of the nation of Israel.

Do not commit murder... Both moral and civil aspects

Do not wear mixed materials... Civic aspect

Sacrifice a lamb... moral, ceremonial and civic aspects

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

I am not still IFB. I'm Episcopalutheran (TEC & ELCA) now, and very glad of it.  But my answer is this: There are two (and only two) laws still binding on all New Covenant people at all times and places. Jesus cited them when asked what are the two greatest commandments.

Then the questionis how do we love God, how do we express or show our love to God. Jesus answered that also by the way.

John 14:15  If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Are you saying all he meant was love God and love people? How do you propose to define that?

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

Every law had moral, ceremonial and civic aspects. There were overlaps in certain laws and some laws were simply just good for the comradery of the nation of Israel.

Do not commit murder... Both moral and civil

Do not wear mixed materials... Civic

Sacrifice a lamb... moral, ceremonial and civic

Hmm, not wearing mixed materials was civic? So also then the hitching of the ox and ass? Civic also? And the sowing with divers seeds, civic also?

 

[Vince Massi]

SwampHag, I still am an IFB.

It isn't the Old Testament laws; it is the man-made rules that are a problem. A major problem with FBCH is its rejection of holiness in favor of man-made rules.

 

[Dunkard]

It isn't the Old Testament laws; it is the man-made rules that are a problem.

 

[FSSL]

Every law had moral, ceremonial and civic aspects. There were overlaps in certain laws and some laws were simply just good for the comradery of the nation of Israel.

Do not commit murder... Both moral and civil

Do not wear mixed materials... Civic

Sacrifice a lamb... moral, ceremonial and civic

Hmm, not wearing mixed materials was civic? So also then the hitching of the ox and ass? Civic also? And the sowing with divers seeds, civic also?

Sure, the nonmixed clothing distinguished them as a unique people. For some reason, God saw it as a sign of holiness. Moral aspect and civic.

Why don't you explain the others?

 

[Holy Mole]

Every law had moral, ceremonial and civic aspects. There were overlaps in certain laws and some laws were simply just good for the comradery of the nation of Israel.

Do not commit murder... Both moral and civil

Do not wear mixed materials... Civic

Sacrifice a lamb... moral, ceremonial and civic

Hmm, not wearing mixed materials was civic? So also then the hitching of the ox and ass? Civic also? And the sowing with divers seeds, civic also?

not wearing garments made with fabric of mixed fibers had a practical reason too....... different fibers shrink at different rates..... and unless you intend to never wash your clothing and just walk around dirty... or be wasteful.... as the rich often did....and throw your clothing away at the first sign of wear... then it was prudent to use fabrics made of one type of fiber because otherwise they would be full of holes soon.......

and it;s a well known fact that mules will refuse to work if they are yoked with any other type of animal...... they will walk along side the other animal and pretend to be working.... while that other beast pulls the entire load by itself...... but the only way a mule will exert any energy of it;s own is if it is hitched with other mules ... (who won;t allow him to get away with it).... or if he is working by himself.........

so whether violating those old testament commands today would be a sin or not is a question i will leave to the scholars.....  but either way they are not very wise....... or efficient.........

I agree...nothing but 100% Certified Organic Non-GMO polyester suits for me.

 

[Izdaari]

I am not still IFB. I'm Episcopalutheran (TEC & ELCA) now, and very glad of it.  But my answer is this: There are two (and only two) laws still binding on all New Covenant people at all times and places. Jesus cited them when asked what are the two greatest commandments.

Then the questionis how do we love God, how do we express or show our love to God. Jesus answered that also by the way.

John 14:15  If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Are you saying all he meant was love God and love people? How do you propose to define that?

I don't propose to define it. We are under Grace now, not Law.
Yes, love God and love people is sufficient.

 

[Fresh Air]

I don't propose to define it. We are under Grace now, not Law.
Yes, love God and love people is sufficient.

...classic.

 

[subllibrm]

I don't propose to define it. We are under Grace now, not Law.
Yes, love God and love people is sufficient.

...classic.

Well it is pretty simple. The kind of thing a child can grasp.

 

[Billy]

Matthew 22:36-40

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

Matthew 22:36-40

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Which changes what I said not one iota.

This is simply saying that all of the commandments of the scripture are either Godward (the first and great commandment), manward (the second is like unto it) or both.

1. Thou shat have no other Gods - Godward
2. Thou shalt not make unto the any graven image.... - Godward
3. THou shalt not take the name of the Lord... - Godward
4. Remember the sabbath day... - Primarily Godward, but the Sabbath was made for man
5. Honour thy father and mother... - manward
6. Thou shalt not kill - manward
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery - manward
8. Thou shalt not steal - manward
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness.... - manward
10. Thou shalt not covet... - manward

How about
Matthew 5:28  But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
- Manward

Or
Hebrews 10:25  Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
- Both.

Or
Romans 14:13  Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
- Manward

The commandments of the scriptures were given to us to follow so that we could obey
Matthew 22:36-40
"Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Matthew 22:36-40

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Which changes what I said not one iota.

This is simply saying that all of the commandments of the scripture are either Godward (the first and great commandment), manward (the second is like unto it) or both.

1. Thou shat have no other Gods - Godward
2. Thou shalt not make unto the any graven image.... - Godward
3. THou shalt not take the name of the Lord... - Godward
4. Remember the sabbath day... - Primarily Godward, but the Sabbath was made for man
5. Honour thy father and mother... - manward
6. Thou shalt not kill - manward
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery - manward
8. Thou shalt not steal - manward
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness.... - manward
10. Thou shalt not covet... - manward

How about
Matthew 5:28  But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
- Manward

Or
Hebrews 10:25  Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
- Both.

Or
Romans 14:13  Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
- Manward

The commandments of the scriptures were given to us to follow so that we could obey
Matthew 22:36-40
"Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

As usual, you have it Backward.  If you truly “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind." and "Love your neighbor as yourself", then you fulfill all the other commandments. 

 

[Recovering IFB]

I don't propose to define it. We are under Grace now, not Law.
Yes, love God and love people is sufficient.

...classic.

Not of works Tommy, hint Eph. 2:8-9

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

I am not still IFB. I'm Episcopalutheran (TEC & ELCA) now, and very glad of it.  But my answer is this: There are two (and only two) laws still binding on all New Covenant people at all times and places. Jesus cited them when asked what are the two greatest commandments.

Then the questionis how do we love God, how do we express or show our love to God. Jesus answered that also by the way.

John 14:15  If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Are you saying all he meant was love God and love people? How do you propose to define that?

I don't propose to define it. We are under Grace now, not Law.
Yes, love God and love people is sufficient.

Without a definition, you effectively say it has no meaning. Your idea becomes experiential as opposed to empirical. It is anthrocentric as opposed to theocentric. More, you render any apologetic you may have regarding it undefendable because by your very statement there is no definition of "love God, love people". Thats relativism at its finest.

 

[rsc2a]

Matthew 22:36-40

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Which changes what I said not one iota.

This is simply saying that all of the commandments of the scripture are either Godward (the first and great commandment), manward (the second is like unto it) or both.

1. Thou shat have no other Gods - Godward
2. Thou shalt not make unto the any graven image.... - Godward
3. THou shalt not take the name of the Lord... - Godward
4. Remember the sabbath day... - Primarily Godward, but the Sabbath was made for man
5. Honour thy father and mother... - manward
6. Thou shalt not kill - manward
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery - manward
8. Thou shalt not steal - manward
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness.... - manward
10. Thou shalt not covet... - manward

How about
Matthew 5:28  But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
- Manward

Or
Hebrews 10:25  Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
- Both.

Or
Romans 14:13  Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
- Manward

The commandments of the scriptures were given to us to follow so that we could obey
Matthew 22:36-40
"Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

A totally baseless division.

Any type of sin is "God-ward" first and foremost,  and ultimately any sin will have "man-ward" effects.

 

[Walt]

I am not still IFB. I'm Episcopalutheran (TEC & ELCA) now, and very glad of it.  But my answer is this: There are two (and only two) laws still binding on all New Covenant people at all times and places. Jesus cited them when asked what are the two greatest commandments.

Jesus said that these were the two greatest commandments, not the only binding ones, so whence comes that statement?

There are plenty of other commands in the New Testament to believers: Titus 2 instructs believers to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, and to live soberly, righteously, and godly.

This falls under Jesus' two greatest commandments, but it is certainly a New Testament command to believers.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

SwampHag, I still am an IFB.

It isn't the Old Testament laws; it is the man-made rules that are a problem. A major problem with FBCH is its rejection of holiness in favor of man-made rules.

IFB or AoG?  You can't seriously expect us to believe you are both, right?