Question for someone who is still IFB please...
- Thread starter SwampHag
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TheVoice said:
Not my fault. You're the one demanding I see this when there is not any Scripture anywhere that says anything about a seperation the law. Not one. Not anywhere. Just provide one and I might listen. Till you do... its nothing more than a man made requirement.
So why are you trying to use it to please God? Does God demand perfection? You have poor opinion of God's demands. You're pretending that you keep the law. You never have. You don't now. You can't. Its beyond you. You do not have the ability to overcome something that God gave to prove your guilt.
You misapply Psalm 119:11.
One question for you. Did David succeed in not sinning against God? At any time in his life.... did he succeed?
May also point you to a few verses where your own Master talked of the sinlessness of David even when he did something that was unlawful for him to do.
Luk 6:2 But some of the Pharisees said, "Why are you doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath?"
Luk 6:3 And Jesus answered them, "Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him:
Luk 6:4 how he entered the house of God and took and ate the bread of the Presence, which is not lawful for any but the priests to eat, and also gave it to those with him?"
Luk 6:5 And he said to them, "The Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath."
Lets review...
You don't keep the law. You have never keep the law. You can not keep the law. David did not keep the law even though he had hidden the "Word" in his heart. Yet, God imparted blamelessness to David..... even when he sinned and counted it as if he hadn't done any wrong. Paul also witnessed this in Romans 4
Rom 4:6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
Rom 4:7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered;
Rom 4:8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin."
You see.... your beliefs are really silly. Sinlessness is beyond your own means and abilities. You prove it.... every day of your life. Even with God's Word in his heart.... David sinned. You're no better than him. No better than anyone.
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prophet said:
That's Jesus for me. Not Joshua.
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rsc2a said:PY thinks someone else is a moron!
I haven't used that word in months. Are you trying to provoke me?
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praise_yeshua said:
...and not Yeshua, either.
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FreeToBeMe said:
I know what the "yeshua" part of my forum handle references.
Is it all that difficult to understand that I don't want to be called by the same name as our Lord? Why is it so difficult for you to understand?
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praise_yeshua said:
That's not what I was referencing at all. Follow the thread, man.
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subllibrm said:rsc2a said:But what if you did "hay soos"?
Alou?
praise_yeshua said:
Prove it once - Lol! I can prove it twice in one Chapter.
OT - Gospel was only for Jews and many meats were unclean. Act 10 - Give the gospel to every nation is illustrated through a lifting of dietary retractions. Oh also the Great Commission, but why bring Jesus into this.
OT - Jews worshiped in the tabernacle and on the Sabbath. The early church meet every day to study (Act 17:12). Oh and Jesus also foretold this to the Women at the well.
OT - the high priest gave intersession , Hebrews 4:15 - Jesus is our High Priest
That accounts for most of the ceremonial law (the temple/tabernacle) and many civil laws in just a couple of passages.
I misapply Psalms 119:11?
Ok....
How about Psalms 1:1-2
Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
Or Joshua 1:8
Psalms 119:105
Psalms 119:9
Proverbs 3:1-2
Romans 12:2
You keep on saying the Law will not make me perfect and I have repeatedly stated that my Knowledge of the law is not for perfection but as a fuel that the Spirit can use for conviction.
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TheVoice said:
I typical fashion..... you ignored the vast majority of what I wrote. I'm not going to bother with someone that can't admit they have never keep the law and don't keep it now. You're guilty. If you seek to be justified by the law then you have fallen from Grace. Christ means nothing to you if you seek to please God by keeping the Law. Only the doers of the Law are justified not the breakers of the Law.... and you sir. Are a breaker of the Law. You have never keep it and you don't keep it now.
By the way... Jesus wasn't a High priest after the order of Aaron. Did you miss that part? If Jesus wasn't made a High Priest after the order of Aaron..... then why in the world are you misrepresenting his ministry in the Law?
praise_yeshua said:
How is saying over and over that you are twisting my words about the purpose of the law an ignoral of your many paragraphs that I can never be perfect? If anything you are refuse to listen to repeatedly attempts to word my original THESIS slightly different by ALWAYS claiming I am striving to perfection.
How about a formal THESIS? Maybe in bold or something?
The Law a basis of morality in that it is -
A foundation to start from. Nothing the Bible says is wrong will ever be right.
A fuel for conviction. It convicts sinners of a need for a savior. It convicts Christians when they drift from the light.
A form of doctrine. The Great Commission is a law! - Go Ye - a command from the very mouth of Jesus!
Answering specific questions like "Was David perfect" is stupid because it would be bowing to your definition of my words.
My reason for pointing to Psalms 119:11 is because if you hold to any type of Inspiration and preservation of the Bible then not ONLY was David saying that "Hiding the law in his heart" made him a better at resisting temptation GOD said it too!
And then ironically in your rush to claim that I Ignored you Ignored all the Scriptures I gave as further proof.
About Jesus's priesthood - LOL! that only goes to further prove my point that the ceremonial law is not the same as the moral law. Jesus Christ is morally perfect yet he did not follow the ceremonial law. Just like he broke civil laws and healed and harvested on the Sabbath.
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Jesus did keep every point of the Law, even those points you arbtrarily call ceremonial What He did not keep are the extentions and interpretations of the :aw by the Pharisees. Thus He asked "Is it lawful to heal on the Shabbat?" to drive home that point.
Please find even the smallest point of the Mosaic Law He did not keep and post it.
Now having fukfilled the entire Law, then died as a perfect sacrifice, He now becomes the new Lawgiver. Say your home mortgage is with bank X and now bank Y has bought out the loan. How silly is it for you to continue insisting on sending payments to bank X? Or to use a Biblical example, suppose you have graduated from 4th grade and are now in College. How silly it is to insist on doing the 4th grade assignments over? The Law is an honored schoolmaster whose job it was to lead us to Christ. We are now under His tutelage, and since He has done all our previous homework we ought to move on from elementary things to the NEW Testament. Some Laws, like Shabbat, were explicitly repealed, (to some men ALL DAYS are the same) and others were extended (if you even think with lust...).
The ENTIRETY of the Mosaic Law has been retired, in honor, for by it not a single person was saved.
Covenant Theology is in error, we ought be "siemper reformando" to put it in my native Spanish toungue.
JR
Please find even the smallest point of the Mosaic Law He did not keep and post it.
Now having fukfilled the entire Law, then died as a perfect sacrifice, He now becomes the new Lawgiver. Say your home mortgage is with bank X and now bank Y has bought out the loan. How silly is it for you to continue insisting on sending payments to bank X? Or to use a Biblical example, suppose you have graduated from 4th grade and are now in College. How silly it is to insist on doing the 4th grade assignments over? The Law is an honored schoolmaster whose job it was to lead us to Christ. We are now under His tutelage, and since He has done all our previous homework we ought to move on from elementary things to the NEW Testament. Some Laws, like Shabbat, were explicitly repealed, (to some men ALL DAYS are the same) and others were extended (if you even think with lust...).
The ENTIRETY of the Mosaic Law has been retired, in honor, for by it not a single person was saved.
Covenant Theology is in error, we ought be "siemper reformando" to put it in my native Spanish toungue.
JR
Some great points. The Pharisees added many arbitrary laws to the Scripture but was working on the Sabbath one of them? Exodus 20 includes not working on the Sabbath. Yes the Pharisees got super technical about defining what was work and what was not work, but anyone could reasonably say that Harvesting is work.
I may have gone to far with the healing part , but I would stand by the harvesting part especially as it was right in the theme of David and Jesus that I and PY were discussing. Jesus directly referenced David taking bread from the tabernacle when he harvested on the Sabbath - Mathew 12.
I will admit it is much harder to distinguish moral and civil law but fairly easy to distinguish ceremonial law as we no longer -
Sacrifice lambs
Meet in a tabernacle
Have a high priest
and many others.
Quando dice que tiene que estar "Siempre reformado" a que versÃculo está refiriéndose ?
I may have gone to far with the healing part , but I would stand by the harvesting part especially as it was right in the theme of David and Jesus that I and PY were discussing. Jesus directly referenced David taking bread from the tabernacle when he harvested on the Sabbath - Mathew 12.
I will admit it is much harder to distinguish moral and civil law but fairly easy to distinguish ceremonial law as we no longer -
Sacrifice lambs
Meet in a tabernacle
Have a high priest
and many others.
Quando dice que tiene que estar "Siempre reformado" a que versÃculo está refiriéndose ?
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cubanito said:
He refused to stone the woman caught in adultery. He never told anyone to go make sacrifice when He forgave their sins (remember, He hadn't died on the cross yet.) He taught against retribution "eye for an eye" as was taught in the OT. There is no record of Him ever offering a sacrifice. In fact, He claimed mercy was greater than sacrifice.
Yes, the "real" Law had been interpolated and yes, I believe that the same interpolation is currently found in the OT we have. Remember Jeremiah taught that sacrifices were not expected by God since Moses:
Remember, Jeremiah said of his day:
Both of these same passages came from the same Jeremiah sermon. Jesus quoted from that same sermon when He overturned the tables at the Temple. The written law the Pharisees in Jesus' day had been interpolated, probably by scribes in Babylon. (Just a guess on my part.) So Jesus turned the OT Law as they knew it on its head and He modeled for us the Law of love as God had initially intended as opposed to the OT Law that has survived all these centuries from Babylon (?) through Jesus' day through to today.
In another place (besides the "eye for an eye" lesson) Jesus restructured the OT was when He said in Matthew 5:
Remember, the OT taught the opposite, that God sends rain to those who obeyed Him:
Deuteronomy 11:
Leviticus 26:
Jeremiah implies the same text but applied it to his current day prophets:
Jeremiah 14:
Jeremiah then states that abundance (the need for the falling rain) was actually at the whim of God when he closes out that chapter with:
In essence, Jesus "cherry-picked" from the OT Law but I believe it was intentionally designed by God. We needed Jesus to show us the truth through the muck of what the OT Law and its interpolations (as mentioned by Jeremiah) had brought.
Want to obey the true Law of God? It can be done but with great price and in the midst of failure:
This is why the Good Samaritan (who had wrong theology) answered the description of who inherited eternal life whereas the priest and Levite (who had seemingly right theology) did not meet the requirements.
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TheVoice said:
Do you keep what you consider the moral law? Are you a doer of the law or a breaker of the law?
I've ask SM this repeatedly. He ignores the fact he is a breaker of the law. Your doing the exact same thing.
It's not about best effort or TRYING your best. You can't do it. You can't. You're a failure.
praise_yeshua said:
No, I do not keep all the moral law. Are you claiming that by "walking in the Spirit" you never sin? Because if not why would you expect my view of theology to lead to sinlessness when your views do not either?
Also please explain an apparent contradiction I have started to see in your posts.
You seem to claim both -
All the Law stands (and)
None of the Law matters to me because I am in the Spirit.
Again we see many Scriptures were David, Paul, Timothy point to learning, loving, memorizing, studying, meditating on the Scriptures is a key to resisting temptation.
2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Psalm 119:9-11
9 Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.
10 With my whole heart have I sought thee: O let me not wander from thy commandments.
11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.
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praise_yeshua said:
Perhaps I've missed that but I don't recall you mentioning it. Well, here goes.
I do not keep the Sabbath, leave the "missed" corners of my garden for the homeless, wear mixed materials in my garments and will have shellfish on occasion. Why? This is the same Law that Jeremiah said was corrupted by the religious scribes. Hence, Jesus taught us the true Law of God so that is the one by which I strive to live. Do I adhere perfectly? No. Do I fail? Sure. That is what repentance and confession and forgiveness and grace are all about.
What am I "ignoring" (other than Paul's teaching on the matter)?
