Real HAC Numbers

[Vince Massi]

Folks, this came up on another forum: How many students did HAC actually have? Is it true that at their height they had more than 1,000? (Yes) Did they ever have 5,000, as is sometimes claimed?
Ready for some work? Could you get out an old yearbook, count the pictures, and post the number and year?

 

[Walt]

Folks, this came up on another forum: How many students did HAC actually have? Is it true that at their height they had more than 1,000? (Yes) Did they ever have 5,000, as is sometimes claimed?
Ready for some work? Could you get out an old yearbook, count the pictures, and post the number and year?

You have to define "student" -- HAC offered night classes in various odd subjects; some may not have even been for credit, and then they pressured members into taking these "classes"... would you count such people as "students"?

I would say a student is one who is taking a minimum of 12 credit hours (or something like that). These would be the ones to count.

 

[bgwilkinson]

The only number that counts is the total number of customers paying for 15 hours or more.
All other numbers are just feel good fluff.
Can't pay the bills on night classes, classes at church, classes at other churches, online classes.
Only full boat customers count.

 

[Vince Massi]

As Walt and Bg correctly point out, the numbers were rigged. In giving their totals, HAC usually did not explain that they were counting part-time students. And for a while, teachers were required to attend each other's classes to get the numbers up.
But we have to have some standard, so let's try counting the yearbook pictures. Is anybody willing to drag out your old yearbook and start counting?

 

[Holy Moley]

In the range of time from 79-83, they were reporting around 2,700 students.  This was about the same time when most of the other Fundy schools were hitting their peak (about the same time that the Christian Day School movement hit it's peak).  BJU had 5,000, TTU had around 4,000, BBC Springfield had around 3,000, etc...  PCC was just getting started with good growth as the money from A Beka Book was pouring in -- unfortunately for them, by the time they were ready to handle them on campus, the wave of CDS grads was starting to wane and Fundy mega churches were imploding as the church growth movement that made the IFB churches famous in the 70's  moved on to AOG, then SBC and then non-denominational churches in the 80's and 90's.

When I was at HAC, the auditorium was packed and they built a balcony (Beiler).  They were even talking about adding CCTV for a while.  I had 8 EIGHT!!!! guys in our dorm room that should have had 4 in it at most.  Later I was in a 4 room where it should have had only 2.  Girls were forced to live in the unheated porches on their wings and Hyles convinced Anderson or someone to build some really cheap/shoddy dorms.  I think this was the time of their peak and then they started getting shady with the numbers.  Mark Rasmussen used to give me the real numbers based on "meals served" as he was over-seeing the dining hall after I left.  He told me then that they were lying about the numbers, but he was watching the actual enrollment drop.

Hyles always used tricks to inflate numbers so he could say they were growing -- Night Bus Routes, part-time students, evening courses for Chicago students, letting wives take one class free, letting kids get baptized over and over and over again, etc...

They were always lying about one thing or another --- numbers, no special door in Jack's office, Dave's book on Purity....you know.  Small stuff.

It. Was. A. Cult.

 

[Baptist City Holdout]

And talk about numbers... Holey Moley........... 8 posts since July. Now the truth has come out!

From what I have seen though, they have been quality posts! Always glad to read, my friend!

 

[Vince Massi]

Excellent post, Holey Moley.  You stated "  Mark Rasmussen used to give me the real numbers based on "meals served" as he was over-seeing the dining hall after I left." Can you remember those numbers and the years he gave them?

 

[Holy Moley]

Excellent post, Holey Moley.  You stated "  Mark Rasmussen used to give me the real numbers based on "meals served" as he was over-seeing the dining hall after I left." Can you remember those numbers and the years he gave them?

Afraid not -- it was the early 2000's and to much time has passed and gray hair has emerged for me to remember the details.  It was during his last years there or right after he left.  He was still at Crown if my memory serves correctly.

 

[fishinnut]

In the range of time from 79-83, they were reporting around 2,700 students.  This was about the same time when most of the other Fundy schools were hitting their peak (about the same time that the Christian Day School movement hit it's peak).  BJU had 5,000, TTU had around 4,000, BBC Springfield had around 3,000, etc...  PCC was just getting started with good growth as the money from A Beka Book was pouring in -- unfortunately for them, by the time they were ready to handle them on campus, the wave of CDS grads was starting to wane and Fundy mega churches were imploding as the church growth movement that made the IFB churches famous in the 70's  moved on to AOG, then SBC and then non-denominational churches in the 80's and 90's.

When I was at HAC, the auditorium was packed and they built a balcony (Beiler).  They were even talking about adding CCTV for a while.  I had 8 EIGHT!!!! guys in our dorm room that should have had 4 in it at most.  Later I was in a 4 room where it should have had only 2.  Girls were forced to live in the unheated porches on their wings and Hyles convinced Anderson or someone to build some really cheap/shoddy dorms.  I think this was the time of their peak and then they started getting shady with the numbers.  Mark Rasmussen used to give me the real numbers based on "meals served" as he was over-seeing the dining hall after I left.  He told me then that they were lying about the numbers, but he was watching the actual enrollment drop.

Hyles always used tricks to inflate numbers so he could say they were growing -- Night Bus Routes, part-time students, evening courses for Chicago students, letting wives take one class free, letting kids get baptized over and over and over again, etc...

They were always lying about one thing or another --- numbers, no special door in Jack's office, Dave's book on Purity....you know.  Small stuff.

It. Was. A. Cult.

I know you are old........not as old as I am but you need to learn how things are worded now.

#ItWasACult

 

[Vince Massi]

From another forum:  "I counted 1147 faces in the '76 yearbook."

When we opened in 1972, Dr. Evans announced that we had 301 students. Years later, he announced that attendance had risen every year.

It would appear that HAC almost reached 2,000 at its height.

 

[tobytyler]

From another forum:  "I counted 1147 faces in the '76 yearbook."

When we opened in 1972, Dr. Evans announced that we had 301 students. Years later, he announced that attendance had risen every year.

It would appear that HAC almost reached 2,000 at its height.

Whenever FBC built the mezzanine, it was truly needed at that time, which would also be the time of HAC's highest enrollments.  On Sunday nights, the FBC's auditorium would literally be packed everywhere, including the TV sections, mezzanine and even the Adams Chapel.  I know that issues have been raised on here on what the seating capacity of the old auditorium was, but I'd guess that there would have been 6,500 to 7,000 people inside the auditorium in the early 80's on a Sunday night-----(as there would be hundreds of children sitting with their parents and they wouldn't take up as much room as an adult?.for those that believe that only 4,000 could fit into the old auditorium).

 

[bgwilkinson]

From another forum:  "I counted 1147 faces in the '76 yearbook."

When we opened in 1972, Dr. Evans announced that we had 301 students. Years later, he announced that attendance had risen every year.

It would appear that HAC almost reached 2,000 at its height.

Whenever FBC built the mezzanine, it was truly needed at that time, which would also be the time of HAC's highest enrollments.  On Sunday nights, the FBC's auditorium would literally be packed everywhere, including the TV sections, mezzanine and even the Adams Chapel.  I know that issues have been raised on here on what the seating capacity of the old auditorium was, but I'd guess that there would have been 6,500 to 7,000 people inside the auditorium in the early 80's on a Sunday night-----(as there would be hundreds of children sitting with their parents and they wouldn't take up as much room as an adult?.for those that believe that only 4,000 could fit into the old auditorium).

The last two major additions to the old auditorium seating were the east and west balcony extensions which could accommodate six rows of chairs each.

The west balcony extension appeared as a construction project on a Wednesday in the late 80s. The deacons were never told about it and would have voted it down as it caused major visual obstructions to the people sitting in the upper balcony behind it. The worst problem was that it blocked off all airflow on the east and west ends of the building making it nearly unbearable to sit in the under balcony areas. Bro. Hyles not only wanted one on the west side but also all accross the center balcony area. When we had our meeting in the Adams chapel that Saturday we agreed to let him build an identical extension on the west side but not on the center balcony. This was the last time he did anything like that without permission as the deacons were quit steamed about it.

In 2003 and 2004 several headcount attendances were taken by the ushers over several weeks in preparation for planning a new building. At this time all available space was being used. Under balcony seating of 6 rows were full, all TV sections were full and the Adams chapel was usually full as a TV overflow cry room.

There never was a time during Bro. Hyles tenure when the auditorium and overflow areas were as full as they were in 2003 and 2004. None of the multiple head counts found as many as 5,000 persons in the building. Counts were in the 4,700 to 4,800 area. Again the building was never this full during Bro. Hyles tenure.

Inside sources say the highest attendance ever attained at the college was in the late 80s at around 1,800 matriculated. That would be the absolute maximum and would include part time, night school, classes at the church, off campus sites and anyone taking just one class. So that number is a bit squishy I fear as it would include people who did not pay for their class such as students' wives. It would be a marketing brag number.

After 2001 I started traveling extensively around the country visiting most of the really big churches in America and much to my horror my own FBCH was quite small in comparison. It was just so much smoke and mirrors without reality. Places I visited covered several city blocks with multiple parking garages and skywalks.  One church in Lakeland Florida had a 10,000 theater seat building built in 1982. It was an octagonal building that measured 400 feet across all sides with a ceiling height of 120 feet. The parking lots could hold 5,000 cars and reminded me of a sports arena.  I was greatly shaken after touring this building.

I have never recovered from the realization that I had been lied to for so many years.
Maybe Bro. Hyles really didn't know what a big church looked like.

 

[16KJV11]

From another forum:  "I counted 1147 faces in the '76 yearbook."

When we opened in 1972, Dr. Evans announced that we had 301 students. Years later, he announced that attendance had risen every year.

It would appear that HAC almost reached 2,000 at its height.

Whenever FBC built the mezzanine, it was truly needed at that time, which would also be the time of HAC's highest enrollments.  On Sunday nights, the FBC's auditorium would literally be packed everywhere, including the TV sections, mezzanine and even the Adams Chapel.  I know that issues have been raised on here on what the seating capacity of the old auditorium was, but I'd guess that there would have been 6,500 to 7,000 people inside the auditorium in the early 80's on a Sunday night-----(as there would be hundreds of children sitting with their parents and they wouldn't take up as much room as an adult?.for those that believe that only 4,000 could fit into the old auditorium).

The last two major additions to the old auditorium seating were the east and west balcony extensions which could accommodate six rows of chairs each.

The west balcony extension appeared as a construction project on a Wednesday in the late 80s. The deacons were never told about it and would have voted it down as it caused major visual obstructions to the people sitting in the upper balcony behind it. The worst problem was that it blocked off all airflow on the east and west ends of the building making it nearly unbearable to sit in the under balcony areas. Bro. Hyles not only wanted one on the west side but also all accross the center balcony area. When we had our meeting in the Adams chapel that Saturday we agreed to let him build an identical extension on the west side but not on the center balcony. This was the last time he did anything like that without permission as the deacons were quit steamed about it.

In 2003 and 2004 several headcount attendances were taken by the ushers over several weeks in preparation for planning a new building. At this time all available space was being used. Under balcony seating of 6 rows were full, all TV sections were full and the Adams chapel was usually full as a TV overflow cry room.

There never was a time during Bro. Hyles tenure when the auditorium and overflow areas were as full as they were in 2003 and 2004. None of the multiple head counts found as many as 5,000 persons in the building. Counts were in the 4,700 to 4,800 area. Again the building was never this full during Bro. Hyles tenure.

Inside sources say the highest attendance ever attained at the college was in the late 80s at around 1,800 matriculated. That would be the absolute maximum and would include part time, night school, classes at the church, off campus sites and anyone taking just one class. So that number is a bit squishy I fear as it would include people who did not pay for their class such as students wives. It would be a marketing brag number.

After 2001 I started traveling extensively around the country visiting most of the really big churches in America and much to my horror my own FBCH was quite small in comparison. It was just so much smoke and mirrors without reality. Places I visited covered several city blocks with multiple parking garages and skywalks.  One church in Lakeland Florida had a 10,000 theater seat building built in 1982. It was an octagonal building that measured 400 feet across all sides with a ceiling height of 120 feet. The parking lots could hold 5,000 cars and reminded me of a sports arena.  I was greatly shaken after touring this building.

I have never recovered from the realization that I had been lied to for so many years.
Maybe Bro. Hyles really didn't know what a big church looked like.

Were they Baptist Churches that you went to? 

 

[BALAAM]

From another forum:  "I counted 1147 faces in the '76 yearbook."

When we opened in 1972, Dr. Evans announced that we had 301 students. Years later, he announced that attendance had risen every year.

It would appear that HAC almost reached 2,000 at its height.

Whenever FBC built the mezzanine, it was truly needed at that time, which would also be the time of HAC's highest enrollments.  On Sunday nights, the FBC's auditorium would literally be packed everywhere, including the TV sections, mezzanine and even the Adams Chapel.  I know that issues have been raised on here on what the seating capacity of the old auditorium was, but I'd guess that there would have been 6,500 to 7,000 people inside the auditorium in the early 80's on a Sunday night-----(as there would be hundreds of children sitting with their parents and they wouldn't take up as much room as an adult?.for those that believe that only 4,000 could fit into the old auditorium).

The last two major additions to the old auditorium seating were the east and west balcony extensions which could accommodate six rows of chairs each.

The west balcony extension appeared as a construction project on a Wednesday in the late 80s. The deacons were never told about it and would have voted it down as it caused major visual obstructions to the people sitting in the upper balcony behind it. The worst problem was that it blocked off all airflow on the east and west ends of the building making it nearly unbearable to sit in the under balcony areas. Bro. Hyles not only wanted one on the west side but also all accross the center balcony area. When we had our meeting in the Adams chapel that Saturday we agreed to let him build an identical extension on the west side but not on the center balcony. This was the last time he did anything like that without permission as the deacons were quit steamed about it.

In 2003 and 2004 several headcount attendances were taken by the ushers over several weeks in preparation for planning a new building. At this time all available space was being used. Under balcony seating of 6 rows were full, all TV sections were full and the Adams chapel was usually full as a TV overflow cry room.

There never was a time during Bro. Hyles tenure when the auditorium and overflow areas were as full as they were in 2003 and 2004. None of the multiple head counts found as many as 5,000 persons in the building. Counts were in the 4,700 to 4,800 area. Again the building was never this full during Bro. Hyles tenure.

Inside sources say the highest attendance ever attained at the college was in the late 80s at around 1,800 matriculated. That would be the absolute maximum and would include part time, night school, classes at the church, off campus sites and anyone taking just one class. So that number is a bit squishy I fear as it would include people who did not pay for their class such as students wives. It would be a marketing brag number.

After 2001 I started traveling extensively around the country visiting most of the really big churches in America and much to my horror my own FBCH was quite small in comparison. It was just so much smoke and mirrors without reality. Places I visited covered several city blocks with multiple parking garages and skywalks.  One church in Lakeland Florida had a 10,000 theater seat building built in 1982. It was an octagonal building that measured 400 feet across all sides with a ceiling height of 120 feet. The parking lots could hold 5,000 cars and reminded me of a sports arena.  I was greatly shaken after touring this building.

I have never recovered from the realization that I had been lied to for so many years.
Maybe Bro. Hyles really didn't know what a big church looked like.

Do you mean to tell us that all of 'America' did not have her eyes on this church? And that 'the way this church goes is the way all America will go' and 'If this church falls, America falls' may not have been true?

 

[16KJV11]

From another forum:  "I counted 1147 faces in the '76 yearbook."

When we opened in 1972, Dr. Evans announced that we had 301 students. Years later, he announced that attendance had risen every year.

It would appear that HAC almost reached 2,000 at its height.

Whenever FBC built the mezzanine, it was truly needed at that time, which would also be the time of HAC's highest enrollments.  On Sunday nights, the FBC's auditorium would literally be packed everywhere, including the TV sections, mezzanine and even the Adams Chapel.  I know that issues have been raised on here on what the seating capacity of the old auditorium was, but I'd guess that there would have been 6,500 to 7,000 people inside the auditorium in the early 80's on a Sunday night-----(as there would be hundreds of children sitting with their parents and they wouldn't take up as much room as an adult?.for those that believe that only 4,000 could fit into the old auditorium).

The last two major additions to the old auditorium seating were the east and west balcony extensions which could accommodate six rows of chairs each.

The west balcony extension appeared as a construction project on a Wednesday in the late 80s. The deacons were never told about it and would have voted it down as it caused major visual obstructions to the people sitting in the upper balcony behind it. The worst problem was that it blocked off all airflow on the east and west ends of the building making it nearly unbearable to sit in the under balcony areas. Bro. Hyles not only wanted one on the west side but also all accross the center balcony area. When we had our meeting in the Adams chapel that Saturday we agreed to let him build an identical extension on the west side but not on the center balcony. This was the last time he did anything like that without permission as the deacons were quit steamed about it.

In 2003 and 2004 several headcount attendances were taken by the ushers over several weeks in preparation for planning a new building. At this time all available space was being used. Under balcony seating of 6 rows were full, all TV sections were full and the Adams chapel was usually full as a TV overflow cry room.

There never was a time during Bro. Hyles tenure when the auditorium and overflow areas were as full as they were in 2003 and 2004. None of the multiple head counts found as many as 5,000 persons in the building. Counts were in the 4,700 to 4,800 area. Again the building was never this full during Bro. Hyles tenure.

Inside sources say the highest attendance ever attained at the college was in the late 80s at around 1,800 matriculated. That would be the absolute maximum and would include part time, night school, classes at the church, off campus sites and anyone taking just one class. So that number is a bit squishy I fear as it would include people who did not pay for their class such as students wives. It would be a marketing brag number.

After 2001 I started traveling extensively around the country visiting most of the really big churches in America and much to my horror my own FBCH was quite small in comparison. It was just so much smoke and mirrors without reality. Places I visited covered several city blocks with multiple parking garages and skywalks.  One church in Lakeland Florida had a 10,000 theater seat building built in 1982. It was an octagonal building that measured 400 feet across all sides with a ceiling height of 120 feet. The parking lots could hold 5,000 cars and reminded me of a sports arena.  I was greatly shaken after touring this building.

I have never recovered from the realization that I had been lied to for so many years.
Maybe Bro. Hyles really didn't know what a big church looked like.

Do you mean to tell us that all of 'America' did not have her eyes on this church? And that 'the way this church goes is the way all America will go' and 'If this church falls, America falls' may not have been true?

Well, America certainly has become a much more vile place since those days.  I guess the church failed, or, maybe we all have...

 

[fishinnut]

From another forum:  "I counted 1147 faces in the '76 yearbook."

When we opened in 1972, Dr. Evans announced that we had 301 students. Years later, he announced that attendance had risen every year.

It would appear that HAC almost reached 2,000 at its height.

Whenever FBC built the mezzanine, it was truly needed at that time, which would also be the time of HAC's highest enrollments.  On Sunday nights, the FBC's auditorium would literally be packed everywhere, including the TV sections, mezzanine and even the Adams Chapel.  I know that issues have been raised on here on what the seating capacity of the old auditorium was, but I'd guess that there would have been 6,500 to 7,000 people inside the auditorium in the early 80's on a Sunday night-----(as there would be hundreds of children sitting with their parents and they wouldn't take up as much room as an adult?.for those that believe that only 4,000 could fit into the old auditorium).

The last two major additions to the old auditorium seating were the east and west balcony extensions which could accommodate six rows of chairs each.

The west balcony extension appeared as a construction project on a Wednesday in the late 80s. The deacons were never told about it and would have voted it down as it caused major visual obstructions to the people sitting in the upper balcony behind it. The worst problem was that it blocked off all airflow on the east and west ends of the building making it nearly unbearable to sit in the under balcony areas. Bro. Hyles not only wanted one on the west side but also all accross the center balcony area. When we had our meeting in the Adams chapel that Saturday we agreed to let him build an identical extension on the west side but not on the center balcony. This was the last time he did anything like that without permission as the deacons were quit steamed about it.

In 2003 and 2004 several headcount attendances were taken by the ushers over several weeks in preparation for planning a new building. At this time all available space was being used. Under balcony seating of 6 rows were full, all TV sections were full and the Adams chapel was usually full as a TV overflow cry room.

There never was a time during Bro. Hyles tenure when the auditorium and overflow areas were as full as they were in 2003 and 2004. None of the multiple head counts found as many as 5,000 persons in the building. Counts were in the 4,700 to 4,800 area. Again the building was never this full during Bro. Hyles tenure.

Inside sources say the highest attendance ever attained at the college was in the late 80s at around 1,800 matriculated. That would be the absolute maximum and would include part time, night school, classes at the church, off campus sites and anyone taking just one class. So that number is a bit squishy I fear as it would include people who did not pay for their class such as students wives. It would be a marketing brag number.

After 2001 I started traveling extensively around the country visiting most of the really big churches in America and much to my horror my own FBCH was quite small in comparison. It was just so much smoke and mirrors without reality. Places I visited covered several city blocks with multiple parking garages and skywalks.  One church in Lakeland Florida had a 10,000 theater seat building built in 1982. It was an octagonal building that measured 400 feet across all sides with a ceiling height of 120 feet. The parking lots could hold 5,000 cars and reminded me of a sports arena.  I was greatly shaken after touring this building.

I have never recovered from the realization that I had been lied to for so many years.
Maybe Bro. Hyles really didn't know what a big church looked like.

Do you mean to tell us that all of 'America' did not have her eyes on this church? And that 'the way this church goes is the way all America will go' and 'If this church falls, America falls' may not have been true?

Well, America certainly has become a much more vile place since those days.  I guess the church failed, or, maybe we all have...

When someone, anyone encourages any other someone to attempts to BE someone else or like them ("No one can be another Lee Roberson. No one can be another RG Lee. No one can be another Billy Sunday but anyone can be another Jackie-boy H___ . How many time was this drilled into his followers?) instead of the person God designs them to be, failure is not far away.

 

[Vince Massi]

A point that might have been missed is that Bg realized that at its height, FBCH might not have had the highest adult attendance in the world. But when I was there, we had two furniture warehouses, with four floors of bus kids apiece.

To be fair, Jack  claimed to have "The World's Largest Sunday School," and he probably did. But I do remember him telling us more than once from the pulpit that a Baptist church in the Philippines had passed us.

 

[BALAAM]

From another forum:  "I counted 1147 faces in the '76 yearbook."

When we opened in 1972, Dr. Evans announced that we had 301 students. Years later, he announced that attendance had risen every year.

It would appear that HAC almost reached 2,000 at its height.

Whenever FBC built the mezzanine, it was truly needed at that time, which would also be the time of HAC's highest enrollments.  On Sunday nights, the FBC's auditorium would literally be packed everywhere, including the TV sections, mezzanine and even the Adams Chapel.  I know that issues have been raised on here on what the seating capacity of the old auditorium was, but I'd guess that there would have been 6,500 to 7,000 people inside the auditorium in the early 80's on a Sunday night-----(as there would be hundreds of children sitting with their parents and they wouldn't take up as much room as an adult?.for those that believe that only 4,000 could fit into the old auditorium).

The last two major additions to the old auditorium seating were the east and west balcony extensions which could accommodate six rows of chairs each.

The west balcony extension appeared as a construction project on a Wednesday in the late 80s. The deacons were never told about it and would have voted it down as it caused major visual obstructions to the people sitting in the upper balcony behind it. The worst problem was that it blocked off all airflow on the east and west ends of the building making it nearly unbearable to sit in the under balcony areas. Bro. Hyles not only wanted one on the west side but also all accross the center balcony area. When we had our meeting in the Adams chapel that Saturday we agreed to let him build an identical extension on the west side but not on the center balcony. This was the last time he did anything like that without permission as the deacons were quit steamed about it.

In 2003 and 2004 several headcount attendances were taken by the ushers over several weeks in preparation for planning a new building. At this time all available space was being used. Under balcony seating of 6 rows were full, all TV sections were full and the Adams chapel was usually full as a TV overflow cry room.

There never was a time during Bro. Hyles tenure when the auditorium and overflow areas were as full as they were in 2003 and 2004. None of the multiple head counts found as many as 5,000 persons in the building. Counts were in the 4,700 to 4,800 area. Again the building was never this full during Bro. Hyles tenure.

Inside sources say the highest attendance ever attained at the college was in the late 80s at around 1,800 matriculated. That would be the absolute maximum and would include part time, night school, classes at the church, off campus sites and anyone taking just one class. So that number is a bit squishy I fear as it would include people who did not pay for their class such as students wives. It would be a marketing brag number.

After 2001 I started traveling extensively around the country visiting most of the really big churches in America and much to my horror my own FBCH was quite small in comparison. It was just so much smoke and mirrors without reality. Places I visited covered several city blocks with multiple parking garages and skywalks.  One church in Lakeland Florida had a 10,000 theater seat building built in 1982. It was an octagonal building that measured 400 feet across all sides with a ceiling height of 120 feet. The parking lots could hold 5,000 cars and reminded me of a sports arena.  I was greatly shaken after touring this building.

I have never recovered from the realization that I had been lied to for so many years.
Maybe Bro. Hyles really didn't know what a big church looked like.

Do you mean to tell us that all of 'America' did not have her eyes on this church? And that 'the way this church goes is the way all America will go' and 'If this church falls, America falls' may not have been true?

Well, America certainly has become a much more vile place since those days.  I guess the church failed, or, maybe we all have...

When someone, anyone encourages any other someone to attempts to BE someone else or like them ("No one can be another Lee Roberson. No one can be another RG Lee. No one can be another Billy Sunday but anyone can be another Jackie-boy H___ . How many time was this drilled into his followers?) instead of the person God designs them to be, failure is not far away.

Didn't Lee Roberson offer the campus etc. to the people who were doing the NKJV?

 

[bgwilkinson]

From another forum:  "I counted 1147 faces in the '76 yearbook."

When we opened in 1972, Dr. Evans announced that we had 301 students. Years later, he announced that attendance had risen every year.

It would appear that HAC almost reached 2,000 at its height.

Whenever FBC built the mezzanine, it was truly needed at that time, which would also be the time of HAC's highest enrollments.  On Sunday nights, the FBC's auditorium would literally be packed everywhere, including the TV sections, mezzanine and even the Adams Chapel.  I know that issues have been raised on here on what the seating capacity of the old auditorium was, but I'd guess that there would have been 6,500 to 7,000 people inside the auditorium in the early 80's on a Sunday night-----(as there would be hundreds of children sitting with their parents and they wouldn't take up as much room as an adult?.for those that believe that only 4,000 could fit into the old auditorium).

The last two major additions to the old auditorium seating were the east and west balcony extensions which could accommodate six rows of chairs each.

The west balcony extension appeared as a construction project on a Wednesday in the late 80s. The deacons were never told about it and would have voted it down as it caused major visual obstructions to the people sitting in the upper balcony behind it. The worst problem was that it blocked off all airflow on the east and west ends of the building making it nearly unbearable to sit in the under balcony areas. Bro. Hyles not only wanted one on the west side but also all accross the center balcony area. When we had our meeting in the Adams chapel that Saturday we agreed to let him build an identical extension on the west side but not on the center balcony. This was the last time he did anything like that without permission as the deacons were quit steamed about it.

In 2003 and 2004 several headcount attendances were taken by the ushers over several weeks in preparation for planning a new building. At this time all available space was being used. Under balcony seating of 6 rows were full, all TV sections were full and the Adams chapel was usually full as a TV overflow cry room.

There never was a time during Bro. Hyles tenure when the auditorium and overflow areas were as full as they were in 2003 and 2004. None of the multiple head counts found as many as 5,000 persons in the building. Counts were in the 4,700 to 4,800 area. Again the building was never this full during Bro. Hyles tenure.

Inside sources say the highest attendance ever attained at the college was in the late 80s at around 1,800 matriculated. That would be the absolute maximum and would include part time, night school, classes at the church, off campus sites and anyone taking just one class. So that number is a bit squishy I fear as it would include people who did not pay for their class such as students wives. It would be a marketing brag number.

After 2001 I started traveling extensively around the country visiting most of the really big churches in America and much to my horror my own FBCH was quite small in comparison. It was just so much smoke and mirrors without reality. Places I visited covered several city blocks with multiple parking garages and skywalks.  One church in Lakeland Florida had a 10,000 theater seat building built in 1982. It was an octagonal building that measured 400 feet across all sides with a ceiling height of 120 feet. The parking lots could hold 5,000 cars and reminded me of a sports arena.  I was greatly shaken after touring this building.

I have never recovered from the realization that I had been lied to for so many years.
Maybe Bro. Hyles really didn't know what a big church looked like.

Were they Baptist Churches that you went to?

About half were Baptist the other half Christian or Charismatic one was Morman.

 

[tobytyler]

Louisville, KY has a large Christian church.  I haven't attended a service there but I walked through their sanctuary on a Sunday afternoon.  Two large balconies, a baptistery that resembled more of an aquarium at a Cabela's or Bass Pro Shops?..Everything seemed to be done first class at this church.

Also, I've always liked how Bellevue Baptist in Memphis moved their entire complex to the suburbs away from their downtown location.  They have  a 6,000 seat auditorium that was recently renovated, although I prefer how the auditorium was originally built by Adrian Rogers over the new look by its current pastor and Southern Baptist president, Steve Gaines.  There's a lot of history in this church?.even Bellevue's old location is impressive even though it's been owned by another church since 1990, which is where RG Lee pastored Bellevue.