Restored Fallen Pastors

If not in the area of divorce I'm sure many have disqualified themselves in some other way but the church overlooks it. There are those sins such as divorce, alcoholism, extra marital sex, that are easy to avoid and why, when we do, we are seen as spiritual. What about the sins that are not so easy to avoid? Pride, greed, coveting, lying, gossip, lust committing murder within one's heart? The "little" inward sins that no other human sees? If you offend in one, you offend in all. Big sins occur all at once. The little sins build up till the big sins happen.
 
Huk said:
I wish you no ill will, that’s just how the churches I’ve always been affiliated with stand on the issue. They consider it a very black and white topic, not open for conjecture.
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I fully appreciate what you are saying. It further stresses why I would never serve as a Pastor! I do not want the stigma or having to explain myself over and over again. It becomes quite the distraction which would impede my ability to minister and I and my family just do not need this sort of difficulty in our lives.
 
abcaines said:
If not in the area of divorce I'm sure many have disqualified themselves in some other way but the church overlooks it. There are those sins such as divorce, alcoholism, extra marital sex, that are easy to avoid and why, when we do, we are seen as spiritual. What about the sins that are not so easy to avoid? Pride, greed, coveting, lying, gossip, lust committing murder within one's heart? The "little" inward sins that no other human sees? If you offend in one, you offend in all. Big sins occur all at once. The little sins build up till the big sins happen.
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They are definitely underlying character issues that should not be ignored and going back to Mark Anderson's testimony, seem to be the things that got him out of the ministry and almost divorced. God certainly restored and used Pastor Mark in a mighty and wonderful way!
 
Baptist Renegade said:
They are definitely underlying character issues that should not be ignored and going back to Mark Anderson's testimony, seem to be the things that got him out of the ministry and almost divorced. God certainly restored and used Pastor Mark in a mighty and wonderful way!
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The devil had him pinned to the mat but God rescued him.
 
It does seem somewhat hypocritical that a pastor can (biblically) cheat on his wife and continue to pastor after asking forgiveness, but be unable to serve as pastor after a divorce, which might not even be related to a moral issue.

I do know as a teenager that my all-time favorite Sunday school teacher was divorced. All of us 9th/10th grade boys were all in shock when Mr. H told us. We’d known him our whole lives and had no clue. He even had an adult daughter we’d never heard of. We only knew of his current wife and two daughters. He went on to explain that his first marriage ended in divorce before he was even saved. Anyway, Mr. H was one of the godliest men I ever knew and, sadly, he passed away from cancer about seven or eight years ago in his mid-60s. I still miss him even after thirty years removed from sitting in his class on Sunday mornings.
 
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I don't mention this often but while I am on my first marriage, I am my wife's second marriage. I'm not going to say I was any more virtuous than my wife; in fact, only in the matter of divorce does my virtue "exceed" hers. In nearly all other matters she's the more virtuous one. She's definitely the better half. If you want to rile me up, just try suggesting that she's not the best God had for me. She's not perfect, nor am I. Our vows  will last till death do us part. Then, in the presence of Jesus, we along with the rest of His Church, shall be His bride.
 
abcaines said:
I don't mention this often but while I am on my first marriage, I am my wife's second marriage. I'm not going to say I was any more virtuous than my wife; in fact, only in the matter of divorce does my virtue "exceed" hers. In nearly all other matters she's the more virtuous one. She's definitely the better half. If you want to rile me up, just try suggesting that she's not the best God had for me. She's not perfect, nor am I. Our vows  will last till death do us part. Then, in the presence of Jesus, we along with the rest of His Church, shall be His bride.
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My Pastor in San Diego was married to a lady who had been married before and I believe their oldest daughter was from her previous marriage (although never discussed). One day someone tried to tell me that he was not qualified to pastor because of his wife being previously married and divorced. Good thing I had some older, cooler-headed men around because it was about to be "Fist City" and I guess I would've been disqualified as being a "Striker!":cool:

But while we are making confessions, I am currently married to the first woman I was ever engaged to! Long story.
 
ALAYMAN said:
Permanent disqualification from office for every temporal sin probably isn’t what Paul meant in his writings to Timothy.
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If the qualifications in 1 Tim. 3 are meant to be a description of a pastor's character rather than a checklist of attributes, then conceivably a once-divorced pastor, who is now wholly committed to his present wife, could return to ministry. Mitigating factors would be such things as time and physical distance such that he was now known more for his faithfulness to his wife now than his divorce in the past.

All other things being equal, a man still married to his first wife is preferable to a man who has been divorced. But a faithful divorced man would also be more of a "one-woman man" than a single man who has had a whole series of girlfriends but never married any of them. (It might be worth the pastoral selection committee's time to interview all those girlfriends...)
 
Ransom said:
(It might be worth the pastoral selection committee's time to interview all those girlfriends...)
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Who'd ever make it past a selection committee if that were to happen?
 
Huk said:
I don’t know what he meant, I just know that the church I attend disqualifies a divorced man from serving as a deacon or pastoral staff. The same was true of the IFB church I grew up in. They both allow divorcees to serve as Sunday school teachers, trustees, etc. They have always practiced this based on their interpretation of Scripture. Maybe some Baptists have it right and some wrong. 🤷🏻‍♂️
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That has been the policy here at the church that I am at as well since the founding pastor, a very old-school man on these types of issues, passed that policy on. It’s not that uncommon in conservative IFB churches. I just happen to disagree with that statement, mostly for reasons that have to do with not making policies and rules that are not explicit in the Scriptures. I understand peoples reasons, and Baptist renegade has pointed out a few, as to why they’re apprehensive, but I think some men may be recovered, and may be of use to God without violating qualifications in first Timothy.
 
ALAYMAN said:
That has been the policy here at the church that I am at as well since the founding pastor, a very old-school man on these types of issues, passed that policy on. It’s not that uncommon in conservative IFB churches. I just happen to disagree with that statement, mostly for reasons that have to do with not making policies and rules that are not explicit in the Scriptures. I understand peoples reasons, and Baptist renegade has pointed out a few, as to why they’re apprehensive, but I think some men may be recovered, and may be of use to God without violating qualifications in first Timothy.
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Fair enough. I know some of you here are semi-versed in biblical Greek/Hebrew. I wonder if the older texts would be more conclusive on the matter?
 
Huk said:
Fair enough. I know some of you here are semi-versed in biblical Greek/Hebrew. I wonder if the older texts would be more conclusive on the matter?
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I know next to nothing on original languages, so in that department I rely on sources of exegesis that I consider to be credible/reputable. Having said that, here’s a brief article that is a little helpful in fleshing out some possible explanations…

Link

As with many issues of Biblical interpretation in the case of disputable or obscure passages there isn’t exactly a smoking gun to yield a slam dunk. Other principles often become guides to help us make application in situations like this. One of those principles I think is apropos is the autonomy of each church and her leadership to act in concert with full knowledge of all relevant facts about the elder who is being considered for ministry and, if all things being equal, the mature and wise church is led in good conscience by the Spirit then I believe it best to leave such decisions in that domain, and not judge such churches who act accordingly.
 
ALAYMAN said:
I know next to nothing on original languages, so in that department I rely on sources of exegesis that I consider to be credible/reputable. Having said that, here’s a brief article that is a little helpful in fleshing out some possible explanations…

Link

As with many issues of Biblical interpretation in the case of disputable or obscure passages there isn’t exactly a smoking gun to yield a slam dunk. Other principles often become guides to help us make application in situations like this. One of those principles I think is apropos is the autonomy of each church and her leadership to act in concert with full knowledge of all relevant facts about the elder who is being considered for ministry and, if all things being equal, the mature and wise church is led in good conscience by the Spirit then I believe it best to leave such decisions in that domain, and not judge such churches who act accordingly.
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Interesting article, although as you pointed out, it ends with nothing conclusive. That being said, it did remind me that my church did make allowance for a pastor/deacon in the event he was remarried due to death (widow) or abandonment. In other words, the marriage ended because the wife ran off with another man in a state of sin, refused to Biblically reconcile and the husband was essentially blameless. This latter scenario never applied just because a marriage “grew apart” or “just wasn’t working anymore.”
 
Huk said:
Interesting article, although as you pointed out, it ends with nothing conclusive. That being said, it did remind me that my church did make allowance for a pastor/deacon in the event he was remarried due to death (widow) or abandonment. In other words, the marriage ended because the wife ran off with another man in a state of sin, refused to Biblically reconcile and the husband was essentially blameless. This latter scenario never applied just because a marriage “grew apart” or “just wasn’t working anymore.”
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Well, let's get real here shall we? Marriages do grow apart and "Don't work anymore" but such happens because of sin and pride! It is sinful to neglect your spouse and especially sinful to neglect him or her "for the sake of the ministry!" What needs to be addressed is catching early warning signs and taking preemptive measures to prevent the catastrophic failure of an institution ordained by God!

Secondly, "Growing apart" and saying it "Just isn't working anymore" is not a reason or excuse to give in and call a divorce lawyer. This is humanistic thinking that has sadly pervaded the Church! Two people who are genuinely filled with the Spirit and walking with God don't just "Grow Apart" and say things are not working anymore. They both need to honor their commitment made to each other before the Lord and seriously seek out WHY things just are not working anymore. Seek out godly counsel and ask God to reveal YOUR (not your spouse's) contribution to what your marriage has become and repent! It is a matter for Church discipline and anyone serving as a Deacon, Elder, Pastor, or whatever should VOLUNTARILY step aside from their Church responsibilities in order to give attention to marital or family problems and when such are resolved, may resume the duties of their respective office. There is also no such thing as a completely innocent party in a divorce. Hypothetically, the husband is very much wrong for neglecting his wife but his wife was wrong in the way she handled it and BOTH WERE wrong for sitting down with godly counsel to try to work things out!

Therefore, if it comes down to a divorce, a man is immediately disqualified from holding the office of a Bishop or Deacon and, truth be known, he was disqualified long before the paperwork was initiated! Whether it is a temporal or permanent disqualification could be determined by the standard of Proverbs 6 :33 "A wound and dishonour shall he get; and his reproach shall not be wiped away." I know this speaks primarily of the sin of adultery but we may ask this question with respect to all the other qualifications of 1 Tim 3 and Titus 2 - "Can the reproach be wiped away?"

This is the test I would use to determine whether one could be restored to the office of elder or deacon. I believe the one to make this determination is not the individual or the pastoral leadership but the congregation as a whole who witnessed the offense in the first place. I would caution a Church about taking an overly simplistic "Black and White" approach and have a plan in place for the continual CARE of your pastors and deacons!
 
Baptist Renegade said:
They both need to honor their commitment made to each other before the Lord and seriously seek out WHY things just are not working anymore. Seek out godly counsel and ask God to reveal YOUR (not your spouse's) contribution to what your marriage has become and repent! It is a matter for Church discipline
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Slightly off topic, but are you saying church discipline is appropriate for a marriage going through a rough patch? That seems a bit harsh.
 
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