Sanctification: Should it be recognizable?

[FSSL]

We have a couple of extremes on this forum...

1) Some believe that sanctification requires a certain hair length and clothing style ( hence verses on "modesty" and "dress")
2) Some believe that sanctification has absolutely no ascertainable elements (hence verses on "judge not")

The legalist/antinomian.

I would like to take a bit more specific, theological approach, to this by asking the question: "Is Sanctification recognizable?"

I would post Matthew 7.16 ("by their fruits"), but it is in the context of false prophets and, in my thinking, relates more to the teachings and the non-effects it had on their followers. So, I am not dealing with that particular passage.

I would say that Philippians 4.8 has a better application: "Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things."

So, can a believer claim to be sanctified if they are always migrating toward vile, brutish elements? I say, "no." If they are enamored with the unjust, impure, unlovely things in this world, they are not striving for excellence (sanctification).

 

[Smellin Coffee]

So, can a believer claim to be sanctified if they are always migrating toward vile, brutish elements? I say, "no." If they are enamored with the unjust, impure, unlovely things in this world, they are not striving for excellence (sanctification).

Yes, simply because life is a struggle against the flesh (among other things). If one is enamored with an excess of food or money, wouldn't that also be an indication? Or could it be that we all have something with which we struggle in this life?

Now I do believe that a sanctified person will demonstrate glimpses of that sanctification and those glimpses should become more and more visible as growth occurs, but we cannot win every fleshly battle.

 

[Fresh Air]

Absolutely. The KJV word "conversation" comes to mind. It states or at least implies that how I live my life should visibly reveal the Lord to others.

1 Peter 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

This applies individually or privately. For instance, a woman's holiness should be visible to her husband through her conduct. This is the primary way she is instructed to win him.

1 Peter 3:1?2 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.

This also applies publicly to the general lost world around us.

1 Peter 2:11?12 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

 

[subllibrm]

I would say yes and use Romans 12:2

The transformed mind will show up in our thoughts and actions. Neither of which can be hidden.

 

[Izdaari]

I've known some obviously saintly people.
It's in their characters and in their eyes,
not in their hair or clothes or cultural identities.
Other saints are less obvious, but the same clues apply.

 

[Biblebeliever]

Absolutely, it should be recognizable. If a Christian is living a sanctified life, it will show in their conversation, their work and service which they do. When a Christian is living a sanctified life, he is living a life that is separate from the world, and he is set apart for God's use. The problem today is many Christians are comfortable in this world, to them this world has become their home, even though the Bible in fact teaches that this world is not our home. We are just passing through as strangers and pilgrims.

And so in a way, a Christian that's walking in sanctification, it will also show in their dress. Modest Dress therefore, I believe, is one of several good indicators as to whether or not a Christian is living a holy and sanctified life unto the Lord.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Jesus sure indicated that inward change will be observed outwardly.

"By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

Love for others has long been called the mark of a Christian.

Those who are without love one to another do not bear the mark of a Christian.

 

[Izdaari]

Jesus sure indicated that inward change will be observed outwardly.

"By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

Love for others has long been called the mark of a Christian.

Those who are without love one to another do not bear the mark of a Christian.

yes, love is the mark of a "real Christian" Not a particular haircut, way of dressing, pr even identification with the culture inside the "Christian bubble".

 

[subllibrm]

From our SOF:

Sanctification

We believe that sanctification is the divine ?setting-apart? of the believer to God accomplished in a threefold manner:

1. A believer has been sanctified. (Heb. 10:10-14, 1 Cor. 1:30, Jude 1:24-25) When an individual puts his or her faith and trust in Jesus Christ for salvation he or she is sanctified eternally based on the redemption in Christ, establishing him or her in a position of holiness before God.

2. The believer is being sanctified (John 17:17, 2 Cor. 3:18, 1 Thess. 4:3) This is a continual process within the believer as the Holy Spirit reveals the Word of God to the believer and he or she applies it to life (Phil. 2:12-13).

3. The believer will be sanctified. The final accomplishment of this process will happen at the Lord's return (1 Thess. 5:23).


**************************

With changes of that magnitude (number 2 specifically) I do not see how it could happen without some outward evidence. But again, as with my earlier appeal to Romans 12:2, we are supposed be transformed to be more like Christ not more like the preacher or SS teacher.

 

[redhead]

Yes, it should be recognizable.
Sadly, as I reflect on this question, I have never seen it in an Independent-Baptist church. In my personal experiences, the most Godly (sanctified) people I know are from nondenominational churches. I mean, there are GOOD people in many denominations, but if an organization focuses too hard on "rules" , personal discernment often gets lost.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

One other thing to think about:

If something is being recognized as sanctification in the life of another, how do we really know for sure that it isn't hypocrisy?

Josh Duggar is a recent example. He was held in high esteem with his moral conduct in the eyes of many Christians (and even non-Christians) yet in the end, we found out what had been going on behind the scenes.

 

[subllibrm]

Yes, it should be recognizable.
Sadly, as I reflect on this question, I have never seen it in an Independent-Baptist church. In my personal experiences, the most Godly (sanctified) people I know are from nondenominational churches. I mean, there are GOOD people in many denominations, but if an organization focuses too hard on "rules" , personal discernment often gets lost.

This is precisely why "freebirds" question the "rules". Personal discernment is not only lost, it is discouraged.

From my perspective, the leader who wants to control his people is displaying the least amount of faith that the Holy Spirit is capable of guiding and keeping the saints safe.

Or they are megalomaniacal control freaks.

Or a combination of both.

 

[Izdaari]

Yes, it should be recognizable.
Sadly, as I reflect on this question, I have never seen it in an Independent-Baptist church. In my personal experiences, the most Godly (sanctified) people I know are from nondenominational churches. I mean, there are GOOD people in many denominations, but if an organization focuses too hard on "rules" , personal discernment often gets lost.

This is precisely why "freebirds" question the "rules". Personal discernment is not only lost, it is discouraged.

From my perspective, the leader who wants to control his people is displaying the least amount of faith that the Holy Spirit is capable of guiding and keeping the saints safe.

Or they are megalomaniacal control freaks.

Or a combination of both.

All that is why I never have stayed in a church that takes an authoritarian approach. And by "stayed", I mean the moment I discern an authoritarian approach, I'm never coming back,

 

[Fresh Air]

All that is why I never have stayed in a church that takes an authoritarian approach. And by "stayed", I mean the moment I discern an authoritarian approach, I'm never coming back,

Is there no appropriate exercise of authority in a New Testament assembly?

 

[Izdaari]

All that is why I never have stayed in a church that takes an authoritarian approach. And by "stayed", I mean the moment I discern an authoritarian approach, I'm never coming back,

Is there no appropriate exercise of authority in a New Testament assembly?

"if an organization focuses too hard on "rules", personal discernment is lost."

An occasional exercise of authority may be necessary. But an authoritarian attitude is never appropriate. The former is possible without the latter.

 

[FSSL]

If I were a pastor, I would lock it all down and troll my sheep on Facebook!!!! Muwahahaha

 

[subllibrm]

All that is why I never have stayed in a church that takes an authoritarian approach. And by "stayed", I mean the moment I discern an authoritarian approach, I'm never coming back,

Is there no appropriate exercise of authority in a New Testament assembly?

Sure.

Does it include, as a for instance, pastoral authority over another man's home, family and soul liberty? No!

 

[Izdaari]

All that is why I never have stayed in a church that takes an authoritarian approach. And by "stayed", I mean the moment I discern an authoritarian approach, I'm never coming back,

Is there no appropriate exercise of authority in a New Testament assembly?

Sure.

Does it include, as a for instance, pastoral authority over another man's home, family and soul liberty? No!

Definitely not! That would be, uh Hyles-like!
To Hyles with all that Schaap!

 

[Walt]

One other thing to think about:

If something is being recognized as sanctification in the life of another, how do we really know for sure that it isn't hypocrisy?

Josh Duggar is a recent example. He was held in high esteem with his moral conduct in the eyes of many Christians (and even non-Christians) yet in the end, we found out what had been going on behind the scenes.

Clearly, one cannot "know", but that doesn't mean we should abandon the position that sanctification should be recognizable.

 

[Walt]

We have a couple of extremes on this forum...

1) Some believe that sanctification requires a certain hair length and clothing style ( hence verses on "modesty" and "dress")
2) Some believe that sanctification has absolutely no ascertainable elements (hence verses on "judge not")

The legalist/antinomian.

I would like to take a bit more specific, theological approach, to this by asking the question: "Is Sanctification recognizable?"

I would post Matthew 7.16 ("by their fruits"), but it is in the context of false prophets and, in my thinking, relates more to the teachings and the non-effects it had on their followers. So, I am not dealing with that particular passage.

I would say that Philippians 4.8 has a better application: "Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things."

So, can a believer claim to be sanctified if they are always migrating toward vile, brutish elements? I say, "no." If they are enamored with the unjust, impure, unlovely things in this world, they are not striving for excellence (sanctification).

Not very many people know another person for his entire life.  Looking at the latter end of Lot, no one would believe him to be sanctified; however, looking at the beginning, he would certainly seem to be.

Salvation has always made a discernible difference in people's lives - at the same time, there really is a thing such as falling away from the faith, or  choosing something over Christ.  Demas started out well, but loved "this present world" and forsook the missionary life.  Mark, at one point, left Paul & Barnabas - he later was "profitable" to Paul, but it appears that Paul saw him as a "quitter" and didn't want to have him again.

So, while I believe that salvation is marked by a change, sometimes people depart from the faith.