Satire! Woot!

Ekklesian said:
If you're going to frame abortion in terms of slavery...
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... as pro-lifers frequently do, much to the outrage of their opponents ...

Were those who helped the slaves escape thieves? And were their punishments just?
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According to the unjust laws of the time, they were. And their punishments were also, though legal, unjust.

But they were not extrajudicial. People like Scott Roeper, who kill abortion doctors without the due process of law, murderers--no better than the abortionists, frankly.

What the abolitionists did by helping slaves escape was an act of civil disobedience. They broke unjust laws. Roeper broke a just law by committing murder, and therefore he committed injustice.
 
Ransom said:
But they were not extrajudicial. People like Scott Roeper, who kill abortion doctors without the due process of law, murderers--no better than the abortionists, frankly.

What the abolitionists did by helping slaves escape was an act of civil disobedience. They broke unjust laws. Roeper broke a just law by committing murder, and therefore he committed injustice.
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We could also apply this to Nat Turner and John Brown who both took matters into their own hands, took up arms, and started uprisings which led to significant bloodshed.

It is the principle of "lesser magistrates" that were employed with both the Revolutionary and Civil Wars which greatly contrasts with individual citizens taking up arms against the government.
 
Ransom said:
... as pro-lifers frequently do, much to the outrage of their opponents ...
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Most prolifers aren't really prolife. Abortion isn't the real issue. Feminism is.

Ransom said:
According to the unjust laws of the time, they were. And their punishments were also, though legal, unjust.
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In other words, they weren't really thieves.

Ransom said:
But they were not extrajudicial. People like Scott Roeper, who kill abortion doctors without the due process of law, murderers--no better than the abortionists, frankly.

What the abolitionists did by helping slaves escape was an act of civil disobedience. They broke unjust laws. Roeper broke a just law by committing murder, and therefore he committed injustice.
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I would agree that shooting Tiller did nothing to save innocent life. What if Roeder's action were to kidnap the woman, intervention style, and keep her, safe and warm, in a secret location until the child was delivered?

Would that be going too far to save innocent life?
 
Baptist Renegade said:
We could also apply this to Nat Turner and John Brown who both took matters into their own hands, took up arms, and started uprisings which led to significant bloodshed.

It is the principle of "lesser magistrates" that were employed with both the Revolutionary and Civil Wars which greatly contrasts with individual citizens taking up arms against the government.
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Instead of just imprisonment and forced labor, what if slavery meant that the disabled slaves or those reaching the age of, say 40, slaves would be shot, or burned in a furnace, or gassed. (Something like this would be a necessary element to equate the institution of slavery to the abortion industry).

Would would you say Turner or Brown had gone too far?
 
Ekklesian said:
I would agree that shooting Tiller did nothing to save innocent life. What if Roeder's action were to kidnap the woman, intervention style, and keep her, safe and warm, in a secret location until the child was delivered?
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Imprisoning a woman against her will is also unjust.

Are you a Jesuit? Your predilection for convoluted and perverted moral reasoning is a tell.
 
Ransom said:
Imprisoning a woman against her will is also unjust.

Are you a Jesuit? Your predilection for convoluted and perverted moral reasoning is a tell.
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Would it be unjust to restrain her if the child she were killing was six months old and outside her womb?
 
I believe that abortion is just like the issue of slavery. The problem is and was politics. The Republicans generally lack the political support or the will to try to outlaw abortion. The same is true of dealing with fixing Social Security and Medicare.

Which is why I say that politics is not electing a pope or pastor. It’s politics. We are all affected in every area of our lives by political decisions and must often choose as we say the lesser of 2 evils. Trump has no moral conviction about abortion…only a political conviction to deal with it in a way it harms him the least.
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
I believe that abortion is just like the issue of slavery. The problem is and was politics. The Republicans generally lack the political support or the will to try to outlaw abortion. The same is true of dealing with fixing Social Security and Medicare.

Which is why I say that politics is not electing a pope or pastor. It’s politics. We are all affected in every area of our lives by political decisions and must often choose as we say the lesser of 2 evils. Trump has no moral conviction about abortion…only a political conviction to deal with it in a way it harms him the least.
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Today, politics seems to have left the moral aspect behind and are driven solely (mostly?) by the financial aspect.
 
Ekklesian said:
That's simply not true.

But now that the issue has been turned over to the states, what are YOU doing? Oh...oh yeah. You vote. :rolleyes:
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Except that the Bee satire was about the Republicans at the federal level. PP funding is theirs to control. The states on the other hand have no say so in federal funding of abortion providers. I get that you didn't think it was funny. That happens sometimes when a person doesn't get the joke.
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
<snip> Trump has no moral conviction about abortion…only a political conviction to deal with it in a way it harms him the least.
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Which is why I find attacking PBS/NPR while ignoring the federal financing of PP to be the truest evidence that he has never cared about the issue of abortion. It has been stated here many times that it is an incremental battle and we should be pleased, maybe even satisfied, with the overturning of Roe. I can't imagine an easier incremental step than to quit paying for abortions. But here we are making excuses for him ignoring such low hanging fruit.

Federal funding of Planned Parenthood could end tomorrow if the president was to make an actual pro life decision.

Remember how I have been told that it isn't about his morality but his policies. This policy (in)decision can't be defended on any moral grounds. For those unable to speak any ill of him or his policies, they are left only with the option of making excuses for him.
 
Ransom said:
You mean kidnap her, right? Surely you aren't moving the goalposts.
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The proximity of the child to the mother would certainly dictate the means of intervention. One lives inside its murderer, and the other is on the outside. So the question stands.
 
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Tarheel Baptist said:
I believe that abortion is just like the issue of slavery. The problem is and was politics. The Republicans generally lack the political support or the will to try to outlaw abortion. The same is true of dealing with fixing Social Security and Medicare.

Which is why I say that politics is not electing a pope or pastor. It’s politics. We are all affected in every area of our lives by political decisions and must often choose as we say the lesser of 2 evils. Trump has no moral conviction about abortion…only a political conviction to deal with it in a way it harms him the least.
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Actually, Trump's nominations to the Supreme Court were anything but politically expedient. How did his court's overturning Roe v Wade help solidify his 'power?'
 
Ransom said:
... as pro-lifers frequently do, much to the outrage of their opponents ...



According to the unjust laws of the time, they were. And their punishments were also, though legal, unjust.

But they were not extrajudicial. People like Scott Roeper, who kill abortion doctors without the due process of law, murderers--no better than the abortionists, frankly.

What the abolitionists did by helping slaves escape was an act of civil disobedience. They broke unjust laws. Roeper broke a just law by committing murder, and therefore he committed injustice.
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Instead of Wichita, Kansas, and an abortionist, what if Roeder were in Nazi Germany, and his victim a Nazi officer? Would you see his act any differently?
 
Ekklesian said:
Instead of Wichita, Kansas, and an abortionist, what if Roeder were in Nazi Germany, and his victim a Nazi officer? Would you see his act any differently?
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What if, instead of murdering abortionists, Roeder was defending America from killer robots from the future? Would you see his act any differently?

(I can arbitrarily move the goalposts, too, if that's what you like.)
 
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