SBC vs IFB

[Dr. Duck]

A few months ago, we pulled out of the dysfunctional IFB church we’d been attending for a number of years. They have been without a pastor for quite a while and the church had become very dysfunctional and showing no signs of improvement. Between that experience and some negative experiences from growing up IFB in the 80s and 90s, I highly doubt I’ll ever return to the world of IFB.

Currently, we’ve become involved with a local SBC church. It’s a semi-rural church with a largely older congregation, many of whom have attended the church for decades. Honestly, I can’t see much difference between the old IFB church and the Southern Baptist church I’m now attending, with the exception of the music being a little more “contemporary” rather than from old hymn books.

Outside of the structure of the churches, is there basically any difference between the church of SBC and IFB? If so, I’m not really detecting it.

 

[abcaines]

Outside of the structure of the churches, is there basically any difference between the church of SBC and IFB? If so, I’m not really detecting it.

I'd say IFB is SBC that is obsessed with maintaining a separatist image.

 

[subllibrm]

I have no personal experience with either. Lots of friends and family connected to both but I don't think I can speak to either from second hand knowledge. For them or against, the reports will have a bias beyond my ability to navigate.

 

[illinoisguy]

Here is an explanation of IFB/SBC differences from an IFB perspective:

The Differences Between Independent Baptists and Southern Baptists

In recent years, the distinction between Independent Baptists and Southern Baptists has been increasingly blurred, as some Independent Baptist preachers accept pastorates in SBC churches, Independent Baptist ministries align with Southern Baptist churches and ministries, Independent Baptist...

www.hometownhopeministriesinc.com

This essay is mostly accurate, but it is perhaps questionable to generalize that most IFBs reject Calvinism. It is common for IFBs to say "our churches are autonomous and SBC churches are not" but most SBCs will insist that their congregations are fully autonomous, too. I have never been SBC but in my opinion, SBC refusal to be dogmatic on pre-trib, and details of eschatology, is a plus for that movement. IFBs in general are more conservative than SBCs, which in my opinion is a plus for IFB. If SBCs are less dogmatic about the KJV-only stuff, that would be a plus for SBCs. I left the IFB movement years ago, but if I had to choose between the two movements, other things being equal, I guess I would still prefer to go IFB - but that's just me. Depending on the local situation, an SBC church might be the best, or only, evangelical church available within reasonable driving distance.

 

[Ransom]

Outside of the structure of the churches, is there basically any difference between the church of SBC and IFB? If so, I’m not really detecting it.

The SBC has a program to pool resources for missionaries.

 

[illinoisguy]

Yeah, I believe an SBC missionary can go to the field almost immediately, once appointed. It takes an IFB missionary years to raise support on deputation, roaming the continent for fund-raising meetings and spending big bucks on gas and motels and car repairs. I recall following the online reports of an IFB man who wanted to plant a church in Chicago - as I recall, he spent 3 1/2 years going to churches from Massachusetts to Texas, ended up raising only partial support, came to Chicago but his church plant appeared to fizzle out almost immediately. I'm sure a lot of SBC church plants fizzle out, too, but at least they don't have to spend megabucks on the missionary before they even get on the field.

The September 2016 issue of the "Baptist Bible Tribune" of the Baptist Bible Fellowship (IFB) reported that they currently had 32 missionaries on deputation. The missionaries were taking an average of 39 months to raise their support. In the process, they averaged 103,429 miles traveled, 3,686 phone calls to pastors, and 156 churches visited, resulting in 59 supporting churches.

The article stated that the average missionary family incurs a cost of $188,000 during deputation, in order to raise their financial support. If we multiply this figure by 32, we get a cost of $6,016,000 to place 32 missionaries on their fields, before their actual ministry even begins, and assuming that none of the missionaries drop out during deputation.

I do not endorse the SBC Cooperative Program or their missionary board, but I will grudgingly admit that their system may be a lot more efficient and cost-effective than the way IFBs do it.

I once suggested to the director of a major IFB mission board that perhaps instead of having to roam the nation on deputation, missionary candidates could just send fund-raising videos to the churches. The director practically bit my head off and insisted that the current traveling method of deputation is the way God wants us to do it. Okay, whatever - I'm sorry I asked.

 

[Dr. Duck]

I grew up hearing that the SBC had become too “worldly” back around the 90s. I guess in today’s language the word “woke” would be used. My dad was (actually still is) a permanent rotating deacon in the IFB church I grew up in near Charleston. I recall hearing complaints about the contemporary music and Billy Graham’s name being tossed around, but otherwise I don’t recall many specifics, but again, I was just a teenager and not paying too much attention. Many of my relatives were in and out of SBC churches over the years, so it’s not a completely foreign environment. I guess I’m just shocked how similar it is to IFB.

 

[Ransom]

I do not endorse the SBC Cooperative Program or their missionary board, but I will grudgingly admit that their system may be a lot more efficient and cost-effective than the way IFBs do it.

Economies of scale when it comes to group efforts like missions is one of the advantages of a denomination. Otherwise, as you point out, you end up with missionaries wasting time and money, both of which could have been spent in the field, trying to raise inadequate support from dozens of churches.

I'll bet the Cooperative Program doesn't grill missionaries' wives about their sleepwear, either.

 

[illinoisguy]

Here is the Reverend Cumulonimbus' take on the SBC, for what it's worth. Provided for informational purposes - I don't necessarily agree with everything David Cloud says, such as his criticism of Calvinism in the SBC, which I tend to regard as a good thing.

Why I'm Not a Southern Baptist

Why I'm Not a Southern Baptist

www.wayoflife.org

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Here is the Reverend Cumulonimbus' take on the SBC, for what it's worth. Provided for informational purposes - I don't necessarily agree with everything David Cloud says, such as his criticism of Calvinism in the SBC, which I tend to regard as a good thing.

Why I'm Not a Southern Baptist

Why I'm Not a Southern Baptist

www.wayoflife.org

Ancient history.
Par for the Cloud course.

 

[Dr. Duck]

I'd say IFB is SBC that is obsessed with maintaining a separatist image.

That’s pretty much what it seems like so far.

 

[Dr. Duck]

Here is an explanation of IFB/SBC differences from an IFB perspective:

The Differences Between Independent Baptists and Southern Baptists

In recent years, the distinction between Independent Baptists and Southern Baptists has been increasingly blurred, as some Independent Baptist preachers accept pastorates in SBC churches, Independent Baptist ministries align with Southern Baptist churches and ministries, Independent Baptist...

www.hometownhopeministriesinc.com

This essay is mostly accurate, but it is perhaps questionable to generalize that most IFBs reject Calvinism. It is common for IFBs to say "our churches are autonomous and SBC churches are not" but most SBCs will insist that their congregations are fully autonomous, too. I have never been SBC but in my opinion, SBC refusal to be dogmatic on pre-trib, and details of eschatology, is a plus for that movement. IFBs in general are more conservative than SBCs, which in my opinion is a plus for IFB. If SBCs are less dogmatic about the KJV-only stuff, that would be a plus for SBCs. I left the IFB movement years ago, but if I had to choose between the two movements, other things being equal, I guess I would still prefer to go IFB - but that's just me. Depending on the local situation, an SBC church might be the best, or only, evangelical church available within reasonable driving distance.

My experience with Calvinism and the IFB is that it’s rejected from the pulpit, but numerous members whisper their agreement with at least portions of Calvinism. I can’t speak with any authority concerning how SBC views Calvinism.

 

[illinoisguy]

More commentary, more timely, and from inside the SBC movement - for comments, scroll down to the bottom and click on "view comments."

Why Do Churches Leave the SBC?

Recently, I posted on Voices about the number of SBC churches that die/close their doors. That research piqued my curiosity, and I decided to research why churches leave the SBC. It is important to…

sbcvoices.com

This writer mentions questions about financial accountability in the SBC, and increasing identification with the Republican Party. It is interesting that out of maybe 50,000 SBC churches, it is claimed that only 17 disaffiliated with the SBC in 2022.

 

[Plowman]

There are some very good things about the way SBs take care of their missionaries, but, Scripturally, it is the missionary's home church that should assume all financial responsibility for the missionary. If the home church isn't financially able to meet the missionary's needs, maybe the missionary should stay at home and help build up their local church rather than spending a year begging for money. Also, there's nothing derogatory about being able to "build tents."

 

[voicecrying]

The pastor of the IFB church we attended (and left in 2010) called the Southern Baptists the "lesser of the evils". If you weren't IFB, you were evil.

 

[Dr. Duck]

From my POV, these articles highlighting IFB and SBC differences seem to be pretty minor in nature. I won’t call it nitpicking because I’m sure some people view these differences as major, but they seem pretty minor to me. I haven’t been involved with the SBC long enough to really give a good assessment, but so far I only detect a few cultural differences.

 

[Bruh]

A few months ago, we pulled out of the dysfunctional IFB church we’d been attending for a number of years. They have been without a pastor for quite a while and the church had become very dysfunctional and showing no signs of improvement. Between that experience and some negative experiences from growing up IFB in the 80s and 90s, I highly doubt I’ll ever return to the world of IFB.

Currently, we’ve become involved with a local SBC church. It’s a semi-rural church with a largely older congregation, many of whom have attended the church for decades. Honestly, I can’t see much difference between the old IFB church and the Southern Baptist church I’m now attending, with the exception of the music being a little more “contemporary” rather than from old hymn books.

Outside of the structure of the churches, is there basically any difference between the church of SBC and IFB? If so, I’m not really detecting it.

My mom has always said, people are people no matter where you go. That has been my experience leaving the IFB. If you’re trying to find God you will not find him in church. We go to a large non IFB church in the area but have no friendships in the church.

We really like the pastors preaching biblical and in context which we were not accustomed to. It has helped in our journey and we are thankful.

Beyond that, we go, we show up and leave. We are not involved in any way shape or form. I believe we still have a Christian home it just doesn’t look like an IFB home.

Our friendships come from my work and my wifes work. If we hangout with anyone it’s not from church.

Believe it or not, there are couples out here that do not attend church or may not even be born again but live good wholesome lives. We were not taught this in the IFB.

It was hard and weird not to find friendships in church in the beginning but we’ve adjusted and accepted it. And to be honest, we really have some good friends.

We also have family who we see and spend time with typically on a daily basis.

 

[Baptist Renegade]

Economies of scale when it comes to group efforts like missions is one of the advantages of a denomination. Otherwise, as you point out, you end up with missionaries wasting time and money, both of which could have been spent in the field, trying to raise inadequate support from dozens of churches.

I'll bet the Cooperative Program doesn't grill missionaries' wives about their sleepwear, either.

This is something I am trying to come to come to grips with right now. While I can appreciate the idea of not wasting a bunch of time on deputation, I prefer that a church congregation has more of a "connection" with the missionaries they are supporting. Much of my ministry focus will be in raising financial support for indiginous pastors and congregations in the Philippines (Church planting, evangelism, etc.) and my pastor is insistent upon using SBC resources (SBTC, NAMB, etc.) but I would like see relationships established between supporting congregations and church-planting pastors. Perhaps some sort of combination of the two?

Here is the Reverend Cumulonimbus' take on the SBC, for what it's worth. Provided for informational purposes - I don't necessarily agree with everything David Cloud says, such as his criticism of Calvinism in the SBC, which I tend to regard as a good thing.

Why I'm Not a Southern Baptist

Why I'm Not a Southern Baptist

www.wayoflife.org

Is there anything about David Cloud for which I could actually agree? If all of the congregations are autonomous then it should go without saying that there are good and bad SBC churches just as there are good and bad IFB churches! I just skimmed the article and it seems like Cloud had some sort of a bad experience with the SBC (as many have had bad experiences with IFB?). My main objection with the SBC is in regards to the cooperative program and not as much accountability in regards to where your money is going and who you are actually supporting?

Last IFB Church I was a part of was back in 2006-2008 right after I moved back to Texas. I told the pastor that I was a "Calvinist" and he said "So am I!" He was a good guy and I probably should've stayed there longer than I did. The Seminary I am graduating from is BBFI affiliated but the academic dean is a SBC pastor.

I would say that both IFB and SBC congregations largely pick and choose their own affiliations. Not all IFBers are "Ruckmanites" or "100% for Hyles" and not all SBCers are holding hands with Rick Warren or Andy Stanley (we certainly are not).

 

[Baptist Renegade]

Beyond that, we go, we show up and leave. We are not involved in any way shape or form. I believe we still have a Christian home it just doesn’t look like an IFB home.

This is not good. You really need to be better connected with your church and should sit down and evaluate why this is not the case here. Perhaps sit down and have a meeting with the pastor?

If things are not "clicking" in this congregation, perhaps the Lord would have you elsewhere? There is no shame in "shopping around" and I believe that any good pastor would tell you this as well.

Our friendships come from my work and my wifes work. If we hangout with anyone it’s not from church.

Believe it or not, there are couples out here that do not attend church or may not even be born again but live good wholesome lives. We were not taught this in the IFB.

It was hard and weird not to find friendships in church in the beginning but we’ve adjusted and accepted it. And to be honest, we really have some good friends.

We also have family who we see and spend time with typically on a daily basis.

The IFB culture tends to "cloister up" and "circle the wagons" to the point where you have no relationships outside the church. I think it is great that you have such a wide social circle and of course God is calling you to "glorify him" among whomever you find yourself with. This was a big disconnect with me during my IFB years. I became a little more "real" during my "gigging" days playing in bars and stuff and the experience has brought me around to the point where I truly see others as "equals" and "fellow human beings" rather than just "targets" for soulwinning or whatever. I find it far easier and much more natural to witness and present the gospel to others.

 

[Ransom]

My experience with Calvinism and the IFB is that it’s rejected from the pulpit, but numerous members whisper their agreement with at least portions of Calvinism. I can’t speak with any authority concerning how SBC views Calvinism.

The Baptist Faith and Message is nominally Calvinistic. I can't comment on how individual congregations might interpret sections IV and V. James Petigru Boyce, the first president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, published a systematic theology titled Abstract of Systematic Theology that is Calvinistic. The denomination was Calvinistic from the start.