Should pastors live in poverty.

[Smellin Coffee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYgRKHrmrM8

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2016/april/major-money-problems-of-church-planters-vs-other-pastors.html

The Major Money Problems of Church Planters vs. Other Pastors
Why your pastors can't save themselves.

Article states 1/3 of pastors have no money in savings at all. Over 50% have $50,000 or less saved for retirement. Most have no pension plan and some do not even pay into S.S.

1 in 5 church planters make less than $35,000 a year.

Article says the numbers are much worse for church planters are even worse. Statistics say most sr. pastors do not work a secular job in addition to their pastoral career.

Should pastors live in near poverty and what is the answer? Should churches fund retirement plans for their staff members?

http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2016/april/major-money-problems-of-church-planters-vs-other-pastors.html

He should get more than a living wage - maybe double but it should be enough for him and his wife (and children although they might get child allowance or tax credit any ways from the feds).  In my church we also paid for housing and give him extra like a book allowance.

I agree that the Pastor(s) should be paid so that they do not have to constantly worry about their personal finances. Sometimes, depending on the size and finances of the church body, that may be easier said than done.
And, how it's done and defining a living wage would vary from church to church.

I think a book or continuing education allowance should be commonplace.

 

[FSSL]

I was being interviewed to become the Dean of Students at an IFB college. They wanted to pay me $18,000 a year. I declined the job offer. It told them that it would be better for them to pay me $16,000 so that I could qualify for welfare benefits.

 

[sword]

I was being interviewed to become the Dean of Students at an IFB college. They wanted to pay me $18,000 a year. I declined the job offer. It told them that it would be better for them to pay me $16,000 so that I could qualify for welfare benefits.

When the average Union Welder (with 2 years or less schooling)  with a few years experience makes $35,000 to $60,000 a year or more with health care, paid vacation and a pension or matching 401K.

I read somewhere churches are having a tough time finding people to go into the ministry.

 

[FSSL]

I read somewhere churches are having a tough time finding people to go into the ministry.

It is almost easier to start one from scratch than to take one with a history of problems.

 

[sword]

I read somewhere churches are having a tough time finding people to go into the ministry.

It is almost easier to start one from scratch than to take one with a history of problems.

I agree completely, but  it's a lot more work.

 

[Ransom]

Sounds nice, but I was told by the pastor, mog, who just celebrated his 25th anniversary at the church, that I was not allowed to get a part time job without vacating my position.  I needed to be available for the church functions and the church visitation and if I had all that extra time to consider getting a side job, I probably hadn't really earned a raise anyhow.  Hence, I was left with a decision to either quit ministry or get a job.  It took me another three years before I finally quit his ministry.

This convoluted reasoning is some ripe horse hockey. Refuse to pay a full-time salary and then threaten to penalize you because you have "extra time"? What gives the manna god the right to tell a staff member what he can do with his time off the clock? As far as I'm concerned, if the church demands that he not seek outside employment to make ends meet, then they can make up the difference.

This is extortion, and it forces his employees to be sinners: "But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever" (1 Tim. 5:8). If the church powers-that-be refuse to pay a pastor a decent living wage, they should have no expectation that he will be available full-time.

 

[prophet]

I read somewhere churches are having a tough time finding people to go into the ministry.

It is almost easier to start one from scratch than to take one with a history of problems.

I agree completely, but  it's a lot more work.

It's worth every drop of sweat.

earnestly contend

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I read somewhere churches are having a tough time finding people to go into the ministry.

It is almost easier to start one from scratch than to take one with a history of problems.

I agree completely, but  it's a lot more work.

It's easier to birth a baby than to raise the dead! 

 

[sword]

Here's a job opening, it lists no Salary. You home church advocates are not going to like the $3.2M annual budget much.
http://www.churchstaffing.com/job/205713

Senior Pastor
Woodridge Baptist Church
Kingwood, Texas, United States
Date Posted: 05/03/2016
Categories: Senior Pastor
Denomination: Baptist --SBC
Church Size: 751 to 1000
Job Type: Full-Time Woodridge Baptist Church
Job Description:
SUMMARY:
Woodridge Baptist Church (WBC) of Kingwood, TX (Houston area) is in search of a Senior Pastor due to the pending retirement of its current Pastor who has served Woodridge for the past 25 years.  Woodridge is a Pastor led, committee facilitated, and congregational ruled body of Christ. WBC is a congregation with an average worship attendance of 750 and an annual budget of $3.2M supporting 30 staff members and associated ministries. Woodridge is a member of the Union Baptist Association (UBA), Baptist General Convention of Texas (BGCT), Southern Baptist Convention, and adheres to the principles of the Baptist Faith and Message. Interested and qualified candidates should submit their resume along with a cover letter that includes their personal testimony, spiritual gifts, and ministry calling to psc@woodridge.org. Deadline for submittal is June 30, 2016.

The Senior Pastor is ultimately responsible to God for the functioning, leadership and vision of the church. The Senior Pastor is responsible for providing spiritual instruction and strategic leadership to the congregation, staff and ministries of the church. The Senior Pastor?s ministry purpose is to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ, to teach Biblical revelation, to engage in pastoral care, and provide spiritual leadership in all areas of church life and function.  The Senior Pastor must be a man who exemplifies a godly character and is compassionate in recognizing and meeting the needs of others.


RESPONSIBILITIES / DUTIES:
Maintains a vital and wholesome personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ through daily Bible study and prayer.
Plans and conducts worship services, develops and delivers sermons, provides oversight to all messages delivered from the pulpit, coordinates services with creative arts leadership and leads in the observance of ordinances (Lord?s Supper and Baptism).
Models personal evangelism and leads the congregation to fulfill the Great Commission with vision, purpose and priority.
Oversees and leads pastoral care including visits to members and prospective members in homes, nursing care facilities and hospitals.
Conducts Biblical counseling sessions, performs wedding ceremonies and conducts funeral services.
Works with Church staff and other key leadership members to carry out the mission and purpose of the church.
Advises all official Church committees as a non-voting member.
Moderates church business meetings encouraging Christ-like behavior and proper handling of church business.
Leads creation, review and final draft of the church annual budget including review of current year cash flow and expenditures along with future projections.  Presents final proposed budget to the church and oversees budget adherence throughout the year.
Cooperates with associational, state and denominational leaders in matters of mutual interest and concern.
Overseer of all church staff through supervision of Creative Arts, Ministry, and Administrative/Financial Pastors.
Oversees all church discipline and management of conflict.
Ensures adherence to the Church Bylaws and Policies and Procedures.

QUALIFICATIONS:
The qualified candidate will be a godly man above reproach and possess the Biblical qualities of I Timothy 3:2-7 and Titus 1:6-9.
Minimum education requirement is a Master of Divinity (M.Div.) from an accredited seminary or divinity school.
Proven leadership is crucial to this position and the qualified candidate will have the ability to effectively manage a team executing the church?s vision. The successful candidate will also be able to confront difficult situations and manage change. Therefore, a minimum of 10 years previous staff ministerial experience is required with 5 of those years in the role of Senior Pastor being preferred.  Candidates must have prior supervisory experience and be able to demonstrate a record of historic church growth in their previous ministerial position(s).
The preferred candidate will be between the ages of 35 and 50 with the ability to relate to and reach all generations within the Church and community.
Commitment to and record of Missions support and personal participation is essential.
The qualified candidate must be able to maintain a flexible work schedule, possessing excellent time management skills along with the ability to multi-task effectively.

 

[bruinboy]

Here's a job opening, it lists no Salary. You home church advocates are not going to like the $3.2M annual budget much.
http://www.churchstaffing.com/job/205713

Senior Pastor
Woodridge Baptist Church
Kingwood, Texas, United States
Date Posted: 05/03/2016
Categories: Senior Pastor
Denomination: Baptist --SBC
Church Size: 751 to 1000
Job Type: Full-Time Woodridge Baptist Church
Job Description:
SUMMARY:
Woodridge Baptist Church (WBC) of Kingwood, TX (Houston area) is in search of a Senior Pastor due to the pending retirement of its current Pastor who has served Woodridge for the past 25 years.  Woodridge is a Pastor led, committee facilitated, and congregational ruled body of Christ. WBC is a congregation with an average worship attendance of 750 and an annual budget of $3.2M supporting 30 staff members and associated ministries. Woodridge is a member of the Union Baptist Association (UBA), Baptist General Convention of Texas (BGCT), Southern Baptist Convention, and adheres to the principles of the Baptist Faith and Message. Interested and qualified candidates should submit their resume along with a cover letter that includes their personal testimony, spiritual gifts, and ministry calling to psc@woodridge.org. Deadline for submittal is June 30, 2016.

The Senior Pastor is ultimately responsible to God for the functioning, leadership and vision of the church. The Senior Pastor is responsible for providing spiritual instruction and strategic leadership to the congregation, staff and ministries of the church. The Senior Pastor?s ministry purpose is to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ, to teach Biblical revelation, to engage in pastoral care, and provide spiritual leadership in all areas of church life and function.  The Senior Pastor must be a man who exemplifies a godly character and is compassionate in recognizing and meeting the needs of others.


RESPONSIBILITIES / DUTIES:
Maintains a vital and wholesome personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ through daily Bible study and prayer.
Plans and conducts worship services, develops and delivers sermons, provides oversight to all messages delivered from the pulpit, coordinates services with creative arts leadership and leads in the observance of ordinances (Lord?s Supper and Baptism).
Models personal evangelism and leads the congregation to fulfill the Great Commission with vision, purpose and priority.
Oversees and leads pastoral care including visits to members and prospective members in homes, nursing care facilities and hospitals.
Conducts Biblical counseling sessions, performs wedding ceremonies and conducts funeral services.
Works with Church staff and other key leadership members to carry out the mission and purpose of the church.
Advises all official Church committees as a non-voting member.
Moderates church business meetings encouraging Christ-like behavior and proper handling of church business.
Leads creation, review and final draft of the church annual budget including review of current year cash flow and expenditures along with future projections.  Presents final proposed budget to the church and oversees budget adherence throughout the year.
Cooperates with associational, state and denominational leaders in matters of mutual interest and concern.
Overseer of all church staff through supervision of Creative Arts, Ministry, and Administrative/Financial Pastors.
Oversees all church discipline and management of conflict.
Ensures adherence to the Church Bylaws and Policies and Procedures.

QUALIFICATIONS:
The qualified candidate will be a godly man above reproach and possess the Biblical qualities of I Timothy 3:2-7 and Titus 1:6-9.
Minimum education requirement is a Master of Divinity (M.Div.) from an accredited seminary or divinity school.
Proven leadership is crucial to this position and the qualified candidate will have the ability to effectively manage a team executing the church?s vision. The successful candidate will also be able to confront difficult situations and manage change. Therefore, a minimum of 10 years previous staff ministerial experience is required with 5 of those years in the role of Senior Pastor being preferred.  Candidates must have prior supervisory experience and be able to demonstrate a record of historic church growth in their previous ministerial position(s).
The preferred candidate will be between the ages of 35 and 50 with the ability to relate to and reach all generations within the Church and community.
Commitment to and record of Missions support and personal participation is essential.
The qualified candidate must be able to maintain a flexible work schedule, possessing excellent time management skills along with the ability to multi-task effectively.

I wish that I had the time/effort required, to put together a representative job description for the average IFB church.  The results would be extremely interesting.  Since it is a trigger point for me, I will resist the temptation.
As far as the subject of "should pastors live in poverty"................................ it all depends on what camp they are in.