Shunning in the IFB Churches

[DrHuk&Duck]

I was watching a video about the Amish and the act of shunning, which got me thinking about my childhood IFB church. I understand that Amish shunning is different than the shunning I’m speaking of, but I definitely believe that there’s an element of both official and unofficial shunning in some IFB congregations—or at least it existed as a practice thirty years or more ago. I remember if a member was church disciplined, the expectation was for members to not engage the person. Of course, this was never really necessary because they would voluntarily leave when it got to this point. On the other hand, I believe some people were unofficially shunned due to their “lifestyle.”

Did any of you experience this in IFB churches? By the way, here’s an article about the subject: https://medium.com/@lydiajayokay/do...endent-fundamental-baptist-church-2ee2b1eb4fe

 

[voicecrying]

We were shunned when we left our IFB church in 2010. Some who left after us have apologized to us.

 

[ALAYMAN]

27 years, never experienced or seen it, though it undoubtedly happens. And it goes without saying that such "shunning" is not exclusive to Amish or Baptists. For instance, if you're familiar with the early ministry years of Mark Driscoll of Mars Hill fame, one part of his controlling nature (ie, cult-like ways) was such shunning.

 

[abcaines]

27 years, never experienced or seen it, though it undoubtedly happens. And it goes without saying that such "shunning" is not exclusive to Amish or Baptists. For instance, if you're familiar with the early ministry years of Mark Driscoll of Mars Hill fame, one part of his controlling nature (ie, cult-like ways) was such shunning.

James River Church organizes annual "Stronger Men's Conferences". At the 2024 event, one of the opening acts was Alex Magala, a former go-go dancer (where men and women dance erotically in little clothes for monetary tips in the form of bills suspended from their clothes by patrons) who says he is an Orthodox Christian, born into Christianity by birth ceremony, and who performed a sword swallowing act while climbing a pole. He has said the purpose of the act was to "inspire audiences to reach new heights of what’s possible in their lives". Later, planned speaker Mark Driscoll denounced this act, saying on stage that the "Jezebel spirit opened our event" and compared it to an ancient pagan ritual."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_River_Church#Feud_with_Mark_Driscoll

I realize Mark Driscoll is a loose canon and I would not want to attend his congregation but I have to side with him (lack of diplomacy not withstanding) on this one.

 

[DrHuk&Duck]

27 years, never experienced or seen it, though it undoubtedly happens. And it goes without saying that such "shunning" is not exclusive to Amish or Baptists. For instance, if you're familiar with the early ministry years of Mark Driscoll of Mars Hill fame, one part of his controlling nature (ie, cult-like ways) was such shunning.

I don’t think it’s a widespread practice in all IFB churches, maybe a few fringe groups. In the church I grew up in, I only recall one individual who was church disciplined and there were instructions to not communicate with him until he repented from his sin of adultery. It became pretty unnecessary because he skipped out on the church discipline meeting and I don’t believe ever visited the church again. He and his wife ended up divorcing and he remarried and has been attending a SBC church for many years since getting removed from the IFB church. Looking back, I think the pastors and deacons could have just handled the entire situation privately and asked him to not visit the church premises unless he was willing to seek restitution with his wife and break off his affair.

 

[DrHuk&Duck]

We were shunned when we left our IFB church in 2010. Some who left after us have apologized to us.

In your context, what did this shunning involve? Was this kind of like just walking past you and ignoring you at the local Walmart or something more involving breaking off business contracts?

 

[abcaines]

I don’t think it’s a widespread practice in all IFB churches, maybe a few fringe groups. In the church I grew up in, I only recall one individual who was church disciplined and there were instructions to not communicate with him until he repented from his sin of adultery. It became pretty unnecessary because he skipped out on the church discipline meeting and I don’t believe ever visited the church again. He and his wife ended up divorcing and he remarried and has been attending a SBC church for many years since getting removed from the IFB church. Looking back, I think the pastors and deacons could have just handled the entire situation privately and asked him to not visit the church premises unless he was willing to seek restitution with his wife and break off his affair.

Being discreet is certainly the preferred approach but it needs to be out in the open as to invite transparency. (Matthew 18) Again, such a move should be handled as discreetly as possible. Being completely secretive invites cover-up and ineffective handling of the issue... The HAC forum is based on the fallout from such a mindset.

 

[abcaines]

I've seen two instances of "shunning" in the church I attended in California for a dozen years. One was a fella who I believe was mentally ill but he was a loose cannon and refused all kinds of admonishments to reign in his radical behavior.

The other was the youth pastor who was having an affair and refused to repent of it. That one was a head scratcher for much of the congregation as he verbally affirmed the Gospel and biblical living. I often wonder what became of his son... that had to have torn him to shreds.

 

[Baptist Renegade]

I experienced shunning upon leaving Lancaster Baptist Church but it was not a "Universal" (practiced by everyone) thing and it came mostly (if not entirely) from the membership (not staff members). There were a good number of folks who were "fanatically" loyal to Paul Chappell and the rest of the staff and took serious offense towards anyone expressing any sort of "disloyalty" (either actual or implied) towards PC or members of his staff. 20/20 hindsight, this was probably the major contributing factor to my ultimate "exit stage left" back in 2003! It was quite cultish and creepy and one of the deacons was openly hostile towards me to the point of not even regarding my presence during an event at Edwards AFB later in the year!

Everyone had stories about ex-members running away from pastors, staff and other members when out in town so I made it a point to approach and greet them whenever I saw them at the Mall, at Wal-Mart, or Home Depot! By doing so, I sort of "flipped the script" and often made them uncomfortable but I also remember having a few good encounters which meant the world to me!

Shunning is childish and the epitome of cultish behavior. Church discipline is sometimes necessary but the end goal is restoration, not shunning or making the person under such discipline feeling lower than worm dirt!

 

[abcaines]

Shunning is childish and the epitome of cultish behavior. Church discipline is sometimes necessary but the end goal is restoration, not shunning or making the person under such discipline feeling lower than worm dirt!

Now if anyone has caused grief, he has not grieved me but all of you—to some degree, not to overstate it. The punishment imposed on him by the majority is sufficient for him. So instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him, so that he will not be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. Therefore I urge you to reaffirm your love for him. 2 Cor.2:5-8

Personally, I find the term "shunning" to be a horrible word when used to describe biblical discipline.

 

[biscuit1953]

In your context, what did this shunning involve? Was this kind of like just walking past you and ignoring you at the local Walmart or something more involving breaking off business contracts?

The “shunning” practiced by some churches where someone leaves to go to another church for personal reasons and then is “shunned” for being disloyal to the pastor or congregation is childish and unscriptural. The passage in 1 Cor 5:11 has been twisted in a terrible way. It does not apply to murderers, thieves, prostitutes, and the worst of the worse. It only applies to those who claim to be Christians living in open sin. The purpose of church discipline is to maintain purity in the church and hopefully bring the offending one to repentance.

1Cor 5:9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—
1Cor 5:10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.
1Cor 5:11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.
1Cor 5:12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?
1Cor 5:13 God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

A church member who claims to be a Christian but is living in an open lifestyle the Bible condemns, thereby bringing reproach upon the name of Christ should not be considered a “brother.” He should be denied communion and his membership should be revoked until repentance has taken place. That is my understanding of it. Too many churches have compromised to the point that no one can tell the difference between them and a clown show.

 

[DrHuk&Duck]

The other was the youth pastor who was having an affair and refused to repent of it.

That’s terrible. Was he fired and then church disciplined before shunning? What was the sequence of steps?

 

[voicecrying]

In your context, what did this shunning involve? Was this kind of like just walking past you and ignoring you at the local Walmart or something more involving breaking off business contracts?

Some of the things we encountered:
1. Someone seeing us in public - stores, funerals, town festivals, etc. - and turning and going a different way.
2. Being dropped AND blocked on social media (my closest friend at the time was the son-in-law of the pastor - he was the first to block me, although, I'm 99.9% sure his wife got onto his account and did it). Another guy that my wife was friends with her entire life and we went to Reds games together, etc., blocked both of us. Many others blocked us - most of them related to the pastor.

I would say the Sunday morning only crowd didn't shun us, as well as the older folks who went to that church since it started - long before the pastor at the time arrived. It was the "three to thrive" crowd and those involved in the church school that did.

 

[abcaines]

That’s terrible. Was he fired and then church disciplined before shunning? What was the sequence of steps?

I had just moved out of the area when the scandal broke. I am to understand that he actually resigned as pastor with only a vague explanation given. A short time later, it was revealed why he resigned. It was hoped he would submit to repentance and reconciliation but it quickly became apparent he would not. Knowing the pastoral staff of the time, I am confident that the issue was handled properly and with much discretion. Of course, there was no way he'd be able to remain in the congregation especially since his wife was still in good stead with them. That is how I understand what went down. This was 25 years ago.

 

[ALAYMAN]

I don’t think it’s a widespread practice in all IFB churches, maybe a few fringe groups. In the church I grew up in, I only recall one individual who was church disciplined and there were instructions to not communicate with him until he repented from his sin of adultery. It became pretty unnecessary because he skipped out on the church discipline meeting and I don’t believe ever visited the church again. He and his wife ended up divorcing and he remarried and has been attending a SBC church for many years since getting removed from the IFB church. Looking back, I think the pastors and deacons could have just handled the entire situation privately and asked him to not visit the church premises unless he was willing to seek restitution with his wife and break off his affair.

The scenario you describe, that of avoiding legitimate church discipline, is one reason that when a person comes to our church professung to already be a Christian and wishing to join the church we ask for a formal letter of transfer. Or, at a minimum we ask where they previously held membership so that we may contact their former pastor.

 

[Baptist Renegade]

The scenario you describe, that of avoiding legitimate church discipline, is one reason that when a person comes to our church professung to already be a Christian and wishing to join the church we ask for a formal letter of transfer. Or, at a minimum we ask where they previously held membership so that we may contact their former pastor.

This is a good practice. Seems that the pastoral staff would likely have some knowledge of the congregation and the ability to exercise discernment whether the congregation or pastor was off his meds or whatever. I'm not sure that my current church did this with me when I joined but our pastor told me that they had done some serious "digging" in my past when I became a candidate for deacon (of which I wholeheartedly concur and appreciate the thoroughness in their selection process).

 

[DrHuk&Duck]

The scenario you describe, that of avoiding legitimate church discipline, is one reason that when a person comes to our church professung to already be a Christian and wishing to join the church we ask for a formal letter of transfer. Or, at a minimum we ask where they previously held membership so that we may contact their former pastor.

This is probably a practice in smaller churches, but when the local SBC church is running about 2,000 people and the local IFB church is running about 150 people, the SBC church really doesn’t care.

 

[illinoisguy]

I don't know if shunning is any worse in IFB churches than in other movements - it's a mixed bag, how IFB churches respond.

Church No. 1 - I left one IFB church after one of their missionaries accused me of heresy for not believing in dispensationalism. The pastors assured me of my support and expressed the wish that I would stay. I withdrew my membership but continued to attend as a welcomed visitor, and after some years the senior pastor invited me to teach in the church Bible institute, which I did.

Church No. 2 - I left an IFB church after being accused of not being loyal enough to the pastor. Not only did they shun me, but they contacted my new pastor to demand that I be removed from their membership. They falsely accused me of being a Satanic infiltrator, and placed a lifetime ban of excommunication on me, which meant that I was not supposed to join a scriptural IFB church again, ever.

Church No. 3 - IFB church, similar to Church No. 2, second verse same as the first, I was accused of not being loyal enough and of plotting to take over and destroy the church. So I left the church rather than continue to take blame as a scapegoat for the ongoing decline of that church, but I expressed willingness to meet with the pastor and anyone else who had a problem with me, to discuss their accusations. The pastor declined to meet with me and the people mostly cut off contact with me. However, they made no attempt to get me in hot water with my new (non-IFB) church.

 

[ALAYMAN]

This is probably a practice in smaller churches, but when the local SBC church is running about 2,000 people and the local IFB church is running about 150 people, the SBC church really doesn’t care.

There are good things and bad things about small churches versus big churches. What you highlighted is a bad thing in my opinion. Just because there's a bunch of numbers doesn't mean you should not be biblically sound in your approach to church membership. It wouldn't be that hard at the point where people elected to join a church to ask them these simple questions and follow up. A church of that size is going to have numerous assistant pastors and deacons to take care of those kinds of things.

 

[Dew]

I was watching a video about the Amish and the act of shunning, which got me thinking about my childhood IFB church. I understand that Amish shunning is different than the shunning I’m speaking of, but I definitely believe that there’s an element of both official and unofficial shunning in some IFB congregations—or at least it existed as a practice thirty years or more ago. I remember if a member was church disciplined, the expectation was for members to not engage the person. Of course, this was never really necessary because they would voluntarily leave when it got to this point. On the other hand, I believe some people were unofficially shunned due to their “lifestyle.”

Did any of you experience this in IFB churches? By the way, here’s an article about the subject: https://medium.com/@lydiajayokay/do...endent-fundamental-baptist-church-2ee2b1eb4fe

I was a member of a IFB church 38 years, our pastor was a narcissist and treated his workers like slaves, I was a bus captain for many years. Pride is what I see in most IFB pastors, our pastor had one of those highly sought after fake Dr. degrees so when they’re around each other in conferences they can flatter each other taking the preeminence of Christ to themselves. My pastor expected anyone who left our church be shunned because they had enough grit to leave his scared to death people. He finely left when his wife divorced him for treating her worse than church members. I can personally tell you things he did to his own family in front of the whole church. Then the next pastors that came were ruined by our church treating them like little gods among the sheep, it’s absolutely sickening. God isn’t within 100 miles of most of these little gods among these churches. I left and will never be back, the whole movement is built on PASTORS ABILITIES TO BE HYPNOTIC IN THEIR PREACHING. Look at this years Sword conference some high name preachers flattering each other where every one of them are jealous of each other. Things that are wicked by these “” men of god”” has been swept under the rug , and they still praise these wicked people as godly men. The bus where we had thousands come to the Lord, but you can’t find them in church with a search light. Why don’t you men just admit that what I’m saying is true, you know it is so be honest. It’s sickening and I’ll have no more to do with it. I’m a Southern Baptist and am also a Reformed Baptist on top of that. Only God can save a man and humans are all flesh and desire only the flesh.