Shut down HAC?

[Vince Massi]

Change its name to Trump University

 

[Twisted]

Please do.

 

[sword]

As I talk to HAC grads who are in full time ministry I don't sense the disappointment in their education like I do here on the forum. Nearly to the last person they credit much for what God has allowed them to accomplish to training and education they received while at school. They often list some or all of the following:

1. Practical training & experience in ministries.
2. Personal example and mentoring from some of the teachers and leaders.
3. Training in effective evangelism methods.
4. Education (academic & practical application).
5. Opportunity to serve others and to see lives changed.
6. Life long friends and relationships
7. Developing or intensifying ones passion and work ethic regarding the ministry.

It appears HAC has served as a very practical training ground for future Christian servants. It has prepared 1000's of Christians to fill critical staff roles in IFB churches all over the country and trained missionaries to serve around the world. It appears it has accomplished they exact goal it was started to do.

 

[Vince Massi]

Sword, you are making some valid points. However:

I attended Queen of the Universe Catholic school for eight years, Holy Ghost Prep for four years, and Dickinson College for 1 year. I learned valuable things in all of them. I also learned valuable things from the Cub Scouts, Superman comic books,the Hardy Boys, and Dear Abby.

I have learned valuable truths in IFB, Southern Baptist, and an Assemblies of God church.

But all of these combined have not produced the sin, the problems, and the anger that HAC has produced.

 

[RAIDER]

As I talk to HAC grads who are in full time ministry I don't sense the disappointment in their education like I do here on the forum. Nearly to the last person they credit much for what God has allowed them to accomplish to training and education they received while at school. They often list some or all of the following:

1. Practical training & experience in ministries.
2. Personal example and mentoring from some of the teachers and leaders.
3. Training in effective evangelism methods.
4. Education (academic & practical application).
5. Opportunity to serve others and to see lives changed.
6. Life long friends and relationships
7. Developing or intensifying ones passion and work ethic regarding the ministry.

It appears HAC has served as a very practical training ground for future Christian servants. It has prepared 1000's of Christians to fill critical staff roles in IFB churches all over the country and trained missionaries to serve around the world. It appears it has accomplished they exact goal it was started to do.

You are very accurate.  Yes, there are those who feel totally different and some have valid reasons, but the majority of HAC grads who are still serving the Lord today would agree with your post.

 

[sword]

Sword, you are making some valid points. However:
I attended Queen of the Universe Catholic school for eight years, Holy Ghost Prep for four years, and Dickinson College for 1 year. I learned valuable things in all of them. I also learned valuable things from the Cub Scouts, Superman comic books,the Hardy Boys, and Dear Abby.
I have learned valuable truths in IFB, Southern Baptist, and an Assemblies of God church.
But all of these combined have not produced the sin, the problems, and the anger that HAC has produced.

For every bitter and angry former student like you there are dozens and dozens of grateful christian servants serving in all fifty states and in countries around the world. Things did not work out so well for you, you did not fit in, I get that. You were mistreated and hurt, I get that as well but to dwell on see the ministry die seems, it seems your still having trouble moving on. I suspect your unique background and personal opinions had a lot to do with how you feel now. If you want to suggest changes or areas for improvement that's one thing, but to dwell on it closing it's door reveals much about what's going on with you.

I understand this is the place to vent but at some point you have to let it go.

 

[Jo]

Many of the items on your list could be accessed at a local church.  I question #4. I'm not bitter, but I consider myself practical.  Private colleges are expensive.  I think there are other accredited colleges for potential students to consider.

Sent from my KFSOWI using Tapatalk

 

[Twisted]

Yes, please close HAC.  It's affecting our income.

Signed,

Paul Chappell

 

[Vince Massi]

"For every bitter and angry former student like you there are dozens and dozens of grateful Christian servants serving in all fifty states and in countries around the world. " No, there are not. I cannot find any college, of any kind, that even comes close to HAC at being despised by its alumni. And by the way, I am serving the Lord. But I was serving the Lord before I went to HAC, not because I went to HAC.

"Things did not work out so well for you, you did not fit in, I get that. " Actually, I fit in very well. And then the Roadway Gang began attacking and threatening students who worked at UPS. Because of the cover-ups and requirement not to criticize, most students did not know anything other than the lies they were told from the pulpit. After Vineyard left and his gangsters were expelled, I continued to fit in well.

 

[RAIDER]

Saw a clip of Brother Wilkerson speaking recently.  He said that things are going great at HAC.

 

[LongGone]

Sword, you are making some valid points. However:
I attended Queen of the Universe Catholic school for eight years, Holy Ghost Prep for four years, and Dickinson College for 1 year. I learned valuable things in all of them. I also learned valuable things from the Cub Scouts, Superman comic books,the Hardy Boys, and Dear Abby.
I have learned valuable truths in IFB, Southern Baptist, and an Assemblies of God church.
But all of these combined have not produced the sin, the problems, and the anger that HAC has produced.

For every bitter and angry former student like you there are dozens and dozens of grateful christian servants serving in all fifty states and in countries around the world. Things did not work out so well for you, you did not fit in, I get that. You were mistreated and hurt, I get that as well but to dwell on see the ministry die seems, it seems your still having trouble moving on. I suspect your unique background and personal opinions had a lot to do with how you feel now. If you want to suggest changes or areas for improvement that's one thing, but to dwell on it closing it's door reveals much about what's going on with you.

I understand this is the place to vent but at some point you have to let it go.

Dozens and dozens?  I have no way of getting the numbers but it always appear that HAC had more than the usual number of people that dropped out. It also seems to have a high number of people you while in the ministry really do not fit the FBCH type ministry. So the college at its peak had 2500 students?  It is around 400 students now. It would be safe to assume that many graduates are not encouraging their students to attend HAC or that number would have continue to grow not dismally shrink. My own opinion is that shallow Bible classes, legalism and the approach that you should work til you burn out is not something that many in the ministry see as not wanting to replicate in their own young people.

 

[Twisted]

My own opinion is that shallow Bible classes, legalism and the approach that you should work til you burn out is not something that many in the ministry see as not wanting to replicate in their own young people.

As much as it pains me, I must confess that's the best thing you've written in a long while.

 

[Vince Massi]

As Long Gone correctly points out, HAC grads in the ministry usually do not send their kids to HAC. And I know personally that many HAC grads in the ministry have repudiated HAC.

I was living for God and serving God before I went to HAC. I still serve Him despite, not because of, HAC.

 

[Jo]

I agree with everything Long Gone and Vince said on this subject.

Sent from my KFSOWI using Tapatalk

 

[Jo]

In response to Raider's post about what Wikerson said,

It is rare to hear a leader say his organization is crumbling.

 

[TheRealJonStewart]

Sword, you are making some valid points. However:
I attended Queen of the Universe Catholic school for eight years, Holy Ghost Prep for four years, and Dickinson College for 1 year. I learned valuable things in all of them. I also learned valuable things from the Cub Scouts, Superman comic books,the Hardy Boys, and Dear Abby.
I have learned valuable truths in IFB, Southern Baptist, and an Assemblies of God church.
But all of these combined have not produced the sin, the problems, and the anger that HAC has produced.

For every bitter and angry former student like you there are dozens and dozens of grateful christian servants serving in all fifty states and in countries around the world. Things did not work out so well for you, you did not fit in, I get that. You were mistreated and hurt, I get that as well but to dwell on see the ministry die seems, it seems your still having trouble moving on. I suspect your unique background and personal opinions had a lot to do with how you feel now. If you want to suggest changes or areas for improvement that's one thing, but to dwell on it closing it's door reveals much about what's going on with you.

I understand this is the place to vent but at some point you have to let it go.

Dozens and dozens?  I have no way of getting the numbers but it always appear that HAC had more than the usual number of people that dropped out. It also seems to have a high number of people you while in the ministry really do not fit the FBCH type ministry. So the college at its peak had 2500 students?  It is around 400 students now. It would be safe to assume that many graduates are not encouraging their students to attend HAC or that number would have continue to grow not dismally shrink. My own opinion is that shallow Bible classes, legalism and the approach that you should work til you burn out is not something that many in the ministry see as not wanting to replicate in their own young people.

Actually all bible colleges and colleges in general are declining in enrollment. WCBC peaked at 1000 before but dropped to 700 from what I've heard. American college enrollment declined as well in general.

 

[RAIDER]

In response to Raider's post about what Wikerson said,

It is rare to hear a leader say his organization is crumbling.

I do agree with you.  Wilkerson was comparing HAC with the past few years.

 

[Twisted]

American college enrollment declined as well in general.

Are parents/students finally realizing the waste of money for most college educations and the huge lifetime debt you'll carry to your grave?

Nah.......

 

[LongGone]

Sword, you are making some valid points. However:
I attended Queen of the Universe Catholic school for eight years, Holy Ghost Prep for four years, and Dickinson College for 1 year. I learned valuable things in all of them. I also learned valuable things from the Cub Scouts, Superman comic books,the Hardy Boys, and Dear Abby.
I have learned valuable truths in IFB, Southern Baptist, and an Assemblies of God church.
But all of these combined have not produced the sin, the problems, and the anger that HAC has produced.

For every bitter and angry former student like you there are dozens and dozens of grateful christian servants serving in all fifty states and in countries around the world. Things did not work out so well for you, you did not fit in, I get that. You were mistreated and hurt, I get that as well but to dwell on see the ministry die seems, it seems your still having trouble moving on. I suspect your unique background and personal opinions had a lot to do with how you feel now. If you want to suggest changes or areas for improvement that's one thing, but to dwell on it closing it's door reveals much about what's going on with you.

I understand this is the place to vent but at some point you have to let it go.

Dozens and dozens?  I have no way of getting the numbers but it always appear that HAC had more than the usual number of people that dropped out. It also seems to have a high number of people you while in the ministry really do not fit the FBCH type ministry. So the college at its peak had 2500 students?  It is around 400 students now. It would be safe to assume that many graduates are not encouraging their students to attend HAC or that number would have continue to grow not dismally shrink. My own opinion is that shallow Bible classes, legalism and the approach that you should work til you burn out is not something that many in the ministry see as not wanting to replicate in their own young people.

Actually all bible colleges and colleges in general are declining in enrollment. WCBC peaked at 1000 before but dropped to 700 from what I've heard. American college enrollment declined as well in general.

According to CNN.Money the major decline is in Community Colleges and for profit colleges. I would agree that many are the for profit colleges are a waste of money and all that students have at the end is a lot of debt. The concern is that CC and for profits appeal to the poor who made need the degree most to compete in the middle class. Another reason mentioned is with lower unemployment more people go back to work than to college.

I do think that there are many in the Church that have rethought the idea that everyone needs to go to a Bible College. Not everyone is cut out for the ministry and non-accredited degrees are expensive and many times not as valuable.  The truth is there are and have been more than a few Bible Colleges/Christian Colleges that have or are close to closing.

HAC is impacted by all of the above but I also think that when a school goes from 2500 students to about 400 that you have to think there is more to the story. I look back at poorly taught Bible classes, preaching that had little foundation in scripture, the pressure to produce results in your ministry was emphasized more than learning and then the scandals from what we were told was the greatest church since Jerusalem and I must admit I wonder why they keep the doors open and why anyone would attend.

IMHO HAC is impacted by all of the above

 

[Twisted]

HAC is impacted by all of the above but I also think that when a school goes from 2500 students to about 400 that you have to think there is more to the story. I look back at poorly taught Bible classes, preaching that had little foundation in scripture, the pressure to produce results in your ministry was emphasized more than learning and then the scandals from what we were told was the greatest church since Jerusalem and I must admit I wonder why they keep the doors open and why anyone would attend.

You just keep hitting home runs.