Small Groups

[.tim]

Does it go against pastoral authority for one to have an in-home Bible study?

If a pastor wants to initiate in-home Bible studies for his church, and select qualified members to lead them, then that is up to him.  As stated, not my cup of tea, but whatever....

If a member wants to start one, he should seek his pastor's advice and permission.

Obviously family Bible study is okay, right (mom, dad, child)? But, if they invite the neighbor, or a member from the Church, they should inform the pastor first?

 

[FSSL]

Not at all.  The list of services you gave occupy (in attendance and travel) about 4% of a Christian's 180 hour week. 

4%.

Which someone (cough cough) said, "SS, Sunday Morning, Sunday Evening, and Wed night.... and hopefully involvement in at least one outreach ministry..... that is a LOT of time out of a person's weekly schedule.  And then you want to guilt trip people into finding time to meet at someone's house for "small group".

Someone's kingdom has untrusted leadership, so they must be reigned in with all of these services.

 

[Frag]

Does it go against pastoral authority for one to have an in-home Bible study?

Apparently it goes against one poster's authority! He doesn't trust his leadership.

Discouraging in-home Bible studies is not a sign of insecurity, but a decision based on experience.  If I was not secure in my leadership, then I would not divide the entire congregation EVERY Sunday morning into small groups and allow over 22 people to join me in teaching the church the Word of God.

Save yourself some time.  From know on, when you think you have something really intelligent to post, preface your post with this disclaimer:  THE FOLLOWING IS AN OUT AND OUT LIE AT BEST, OR AN EXTREME EXAGGERATION AT WORSE. 

 

[Frag]

Does it go against pastoral authority for one to have an in-home Bible study?

If a pastor wants to initiate in-home Bible studies for his church, and select qualified members to lead them, then that is up to him.  As stated, not my cup of tea, but whatever....

If a member wants to start one, he should seek his pastor's advice and permission.

Obviously family Bible study is okay, right (mom, dad, child)? But, if they invite the neighbor, or a member from the Church, they should inform the pastor first?

Yes, that would be my advice.

 

[.tim]

Does it go against pastoral authority for one to have an in-home Bible study?

If a pastor wants to initiate in-home Bible studies for his church, and select qualified members to lead them, then that is up to him.  As stated, not my cup of tea, but whatever....

If a member wants to start one, he should seek his pastor's advice and permission.

Obviously family Bible study is okay, right (mom, dad, child)? But, if they invite the neighbor, or a member from the Church, they should inform the pastor first?

Yes, that would be my advice.

Seeing how easy it is for people to use such environments to talk negatively about their Church or pastor, I can understand such a policy. That, and false teaching could sneak in this way. Totally understandable. Besides, if I didn't want to share such an exciting opportunity (teaching the neighbor about Christ) void of my Church or pastor ... something is wrong.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Why not cut out the main service, which is long and tedious, puts people to sleep, and rarely teaches anyone anything new?  Just conduct Sunday School classes.  That would give people more time to live their lives.

This post is a commentary on the church you attend, not the church I pastor. I preached for 40 minutes yesterday morning.  The vast majority of people were fully engaged in the message.

Not that I don't trust you (I don't) but I'd like to get input from your audience before I believe that. 

And my church doesn't have a single teacher.  However, I must admit I was pretty bored yesterday, in particular.  The topic was Revelation and the golden lamp stands representing the church, and how the church is a testimony of Jesus.  I thought an hour of analysis of the symbolism was totally unnecessary.  It is self-evident that the church is the testimony of Jesus, because we are the body of Christ.  So even churches based on the NT model of multiple teachers and participation, mutual edification, etc., can be boring at times. 

Fortunately, not every Sunday is as boring. 

And, unlike your kind of church, since anyone is allowed to share their insight on the topic, there is no single person hogging the spotlight.  Oh, and the operative word here is allowed.  Not required.  Or expected. 

 

[FSSL]

THE FOLLOWING IS AN OUT AND OUT LIE AT BEST, OR AN EXTREME EXAGGERATION AT WORSE.

I just quoted your posts. The first one about your people not having enough time and the second one about fearing others get spotlight.

I have worked with pastors that held to the same kind of thinking. I know the inside dope. It is not rocket science. Small groups are threatening because the pastor has no control.

You expect that your people get your permission to study the Bible with their neighbors?! Would you say, "no?!"

 

[Frag]

THE FOLLOWING IS AN OUT AND OUT LIE AT BEST, OR AN EXTREME EXAGGERATION AT WORSE.

I just quoted your posts. The first one about your people not having enough time and the second one about fearing others get spotlight.

I have worked with pastors that held to the same kind of thinking. I know the inside dope. It is not rocket science. Small groups are threatening because the pastor has no control.

You expect that your people get your permission to study the Bible with their neighbors?! Would you say, "no?!"

Of course I would say "no" to some.  ANY responsible pastor would.

1 Timothy 1:7  Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

Titus 1:6-11
6  If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
7  For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
8  But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
9  Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
10  For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
11  Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.

1 Corinthians 12:29  Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

2 Timothy 4:3-4
3  For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4  And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Hebrews 5:12-14
12  For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13  For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14  But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

2 Peter 2:1-2
1  But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2  And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.


The entire idea that the average church member is qualified and able to be a teach the scriptures is simply not true.  The warning against false teachers "among you" is clear. 

What is wrong with encouraging your members to BRING THEIR NEIGHBOR TO CHURCH.  Remember the GOD ORDAINED institution where a GOD CALLED AND ORDAINED pastor is prepared, qualified and ready to preach and teach the Word of God to them. 

And spend their extra service time in Gospel outreach. 

 

[FSSL]

And spend their extra service time in Gospel outreach.

I find a disconnect in that you would trust the average church member to go on your door-to-door campaign to give the gospel and you don't trust the same to proclaim other parts of the Bible.

The fact that you would have to tell some "no," indicates that you are coddling known false teachers in your church.

If an average church member wanted to start a Bible study, then it is the obligation of the pastor to encourage and equip said "average church member" to do such a task.

 

[themagneticfields]

Our small groups are community based rather than age or interest-based. Our pastor of discipleship and mission puts together a weekly discussion guide based around the previous Sunday's sermon. These groups are the base of our community outreach. I've found it very helpful to discuss the sermon several days after hearing it preached. It keeps it fresh in mind.

 

[JrChurch]

Our small groups are community based rather than age or interest-based. Our pastor of discipleship and mission puts together a weekly discussion guide based around the previous Sunday's sermon. These groups are the base of our community outreach. I've found it very helpful to discuss the sermon several days after hearing it preached. It keeps it fresh in mind.

WELCOME!  Good to see you posting here.

 

[subllibrm]

Pastors who are against small groups are either spooked by that which they do not know or are control-freaks who have to always be the teacher.

Frag's response seems to show this to be true.

My response showed just the opposite.  If I was a control freak, then I would not have urged us to strike for a balance and give people time to live their lives. 

Control freaks are great at labeling others as control freaks.  Perhaps the man or woman who is the most insistent on leading a small group is the one who has the biggest thirst for control.  Modern-day Diotrephes love to find some setting where they can have preeminence.  Small groups MANY times are not about the need for discipleship or encouragement, but about someone needing the spotlight.

And you know this how?

 

[subllibrm]

Small groups MANY times are not about the need for discipleship or encouragement, but about someone needing the spotlight.

So you would TOTALLY miss out on allowing your church people discuss Scripture in small groups, in homes throughout your community, because your concern is that someone is going to get some spotlight? (which has never been the case in our small groups)

Someone does not trust the leadership in his own church.

Well, it takes an anointed one to recognize the un-anointed ones!  :

 

[subllibrm]

Small groups MANY times are not about the need for discipleship or encouragement, but about someone needing the spotlight.

So when one person is the absolute center of attention, while all others must sit quietly and listen -- that's not someone needing the spotlight.

But when small groups come together and everyone has a chance to participate if desired, that's one person needing the spotlight? 

Umm..... sure, right.

Notice that he doesn't fear that pastors may be seeking the spotlight by being in the pulpit.

Or the idea of someone else getting a small share of that spotlight would/could be seen as a threat by a pastor escapes him entirely..

 

[subllibrm]

Pass around a piece of paper in your next small group session and have them write down two numbers:  the number of hours spent in group Bible preaching/teaching/discussion and the number of hours spent taking the gospel to the lost.  You will have your answer. 

Someone does not want to go soul winning....

Someone doesn't understand the dynamic of small groups. They are magnets for the unsaved.

You already have structured your church ministries to stifle any extracurricular "soulwinning." Your growth is prevented by your many hours of SS, Sunday AM, Sunday PM, Wednesday

Not at all.  The list of services you gave occupy (in attendance and travel) about 4% of a Christian's 180 hour week. 

4%. 

Plenty of time for soul winning and outreach.  Unless you waste a bunch of time in small group nonsense......

Ignorance on display.

 

[subllibrm]

If a member wants to start one, he should seek his pastor's advice and permission.

I agree. Up to a point.

I would ask the pastor permission. And when he came back with an ignorant response about "small group nonsense" and accused me of desiring the "spotlight" it would be clear that he has serious problems trusting the very people he is supposed to be equipping.

That would be more than enough reason to seek out a church pastored by a man who understands his role. Of course it would give that shallow man all the ammunition he needs to call me a rebel so he can avoid actually looking at what scripture says about person A teaching person B so that he can teach person C who will be able to teach person D.

Pastors, if you aren't teaching your men to teach others, to teach others, you aren't doing your job.

 

[subllibrm]

THE FOLLOWING IS AN OUT AND OUT LIE AT BEST, OR AN EXTREME EXAGGERATION AT WORSE.

Oh the irony.

On so many levels.

 

[subllibrm]

Does it go against pastoral authority for one to have an in-home Bible study?

If a pastor wants to initiate in-home Bible studies for his church, and select qualified members to lead them, then that is up to him.  As stated, not my cup of tea, but whatever....

If a member wants to start one, he should seek his pastor's advice and permission.

Obviously family Bible study is okay, right (mom, dad, child)? But, if they invite the neighbor, or a member from the Church, they should inform the pastor first?

Yes, that would be my advice.

Inform or ask permission?

 

[subllibrm]

And spend their extra service time in Gospel outreach.

I find a disconnect in that you would trust the average church member to go on your door-to-door campaign to give the gospel and you don't trust the same to proclaim other parts of the Bible.

Good point.

The fact that you would have to tell some "no," indicates that you are coddling known false teachers in your church.

Not sure if he is coddling them but he sure seems to think poorly of his own people.

If an average church member wanted to start a Bible study, then it is the obligation of the pastor to encourage and equip said "average church member" to do such a task.

But Frag is anointed. He not only knows who should get his special attention, he knows which ones are destined to just remain average pew warmers. Having that level of discernment isn't for the faint of heart. Some people just need to learn their place. And Frag was put on this earth to tell them where it is.

 

[BALAAM]

FWIW In the church I attend they have small groups and a pastor of small groups. It is my understanding that for anyone to hold a leadership position (deacon, elder, small group leader) they are asked if they will submit to a year long training program to even be considered. I recently looked at the syllabus for this and they have got to read more books on doctrine than I read in four years of Bible college. Once they complete the program they may then be asked to lead a small group, etc.

By the way, the church runs about 2000 a weekend I would say. I don't know how long this program has been in existence or what they did in the earlier days but after writing this I am kind of curious.