Small Groups

[prophet]

2. Define error. I am a cessationist, and so is the emebership. We have a non-cessationist attending. I am currently teaching a SS series on signs gifts wonders and miracles. He and I see the topic differently. Should we have open public dialogue, or talk about it privately?

You raise many questions, not the least of which would be, "How many emebers do you have? Are they anything lie amoebas?"

Are you a total cessationist?  Because then you'd believe you couldn't have the gift of teaching. 

You don't allow any interaction in your Sunday School classes, either?

I suspect the clarification I am offering is pointless. I am referring to those gifts commonly referred to as sign gifts. Tongues, the gift of healing (differing from God healing in accordance to prayer), prophecies, (foretelling not forthtelling) drinking deadly things (no one practices this BTW) the taking up of serpents etc. There is a set of gifts still in use today, teaching is one of them.

So, dispense with the wordsmithing and grammar policing and simply answer the question.

I Corinthians wasn't written to a church full of Apostles, and ch. 14 ends like this:

1Co 14:37
37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.


So to confess that prophecy has ceased, is to confess that you are not spiritual.

Please give your definition of prophecy. I did.

Prophecy- Revelation of God's Word.

Again, I ask you...did Paul say this to Apostles, or a NT church?

2Pe 1:19
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

 

[prophet]

I Corinthians wasn't written to a church full of Apostles, and ch. 14 ends like this:

1Co 14:37
37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.


So to confess that prophecy has ceased, is to confess that you are not spiritual.

He obviously doesn't think any of those instructions (including "29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge.") are the commandments of God.  He thinks people who agree with this scripture are just people who want the spotlight.  That's why he believes preaching means only one person should be the center of attention. 

Oh, the irony.

Take heart, at least we haven't had some Bozo say: "that means read the OT and show where the NT verfies it." yet.

 

[christundivided]

I haven't followed everything in this thread.... so pardon me if this has already been dealt with...

Generally speaking. Most IFBs are cessationists. They generally believe that such gifts as prophecy have been completed in the giving of the completed canon. Not that I believe the same..... I can't entirely deny the belief. One of the forms of evidence they use is the fact that apostolic powers that were given to the early NT church began to "wane" over time. Even to the point that the apostles could no longer heal those with various sicknesses. They use the example of Timothy and Paul as some sort of proof of said beliefs. They also appeal  to where Paul talked of when "that which is perfect" is come. Which is entirely silly to me.

I have personally, never saw such gifts as prophet and Rogue allude to.... being practiced properly. I have friends that say they have. People I trust to some degree. I can't deny the idea that true "prophecy" as referenced in the verses you're fight over.... has ceased to exist. I'm inclined to believe its not because the gift has been taken from mankind. Rather, it is due to the apostasy of the corporal church environment existing today.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

A lot of people equate the gift of prophecy with the gift of teaching.  As for the more dramatic gifts...

I'm inclined to believe its not because the gift has been taken from mankind. Rather, it is due to the apostasy of the corporal church environment existing today.

I'm inclined to agree.  People I trust a lot have witnessed and personally experienced miracles, including miracles of healing.  From what I hear from missionaries, it happens mostly in 3rd world countries.  I'm not a bit surprised.

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

A lot of people equate the gift of prophecy with the gift of teaching.  As for the more dramatic gifts...

I'm inclined to believe its not because the gift has been taken from mankind. Rather, it is due to the apostasy of the corporal church environment existing today.

I'm inclined to agree.  People I trust a lot have witnessed and personally experienced miracles, including miracles of healing.  From what I hear from missionaries, it happens mostly in 3rd world countries.  I'm not a bit surprised.

There are two sides or two threads of thought to this argument/discussion. The first is the argument of the position. I am going to separate my posts to pose the two questions.

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

Question 1

Did the aforementioned gifts cease? If they did not, you both propose the premise that they are not being practiced properly, so my question is:
A) Are they practiced in the church you attend?

B) If they are not being practiced properly in the church you attend, do you speak out?

The discussion in the thread in regards to the past few posts have been about everyone being allowed input in the church setting. So, my question is, do you practice what you preach?

Edit: Please answer here http://www.fundamentalforums.org/the-fighting-forum/participation-during-services/#new

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

Question 2

This is different, and goes closer to the heart of the last few posts. A cessasionist church has a non-cessasionist attend. (Which we do). The visitor knows the position of the church, and knew it prior to attending. During the sermon/lesson, something is said that he does not agree with. So, he speaks out. Publicly. A discussion ensues. Neither side changes their position, but a lot of time is taken up going back and forth.

Maybe it isn't cessation vs non-cessation, maybe it's Calvinism vs Free Will or Pre Millenial vs Amillenial, or the difference between Israel and the church.

The question is, what would you do next Sunday when he comes again and speaks out along the very same lines again? Is "everyone allowed to speak" or are some discussions better kept till after the service?

Edit: Please answer here http://www.fundamentalforums.org/the-fighting-forum/participation-during-services/#new

 

[subllibrm]

Since the tomato, prophet and IP have totally taken this thing off track I will make a valiant attempt to bring it back into focus.

What is wrong with small groups?

While my own small group experience is limited and recent it has been generally positive.  I am wondering if anyone has had actual, long term experience they could share (not opinion based on "I heard" or suspicions borne out of ignorance. Yes Frag, that eliminates you from those eligible to answer  8) ).

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

Since the tomato, prophet and IP have totally taken this thing off track I will make a valiant attempt to bring it back into focus.

What is wrong with small groups?

While my own small group experience is limited and recent it has been generally positive.  I am wondering if anyone has had actual, long term experience they could share (not opinion based on "I heard" or suspicions borne out of ignorance. Yes Frag, that eliminates you from those eligible to answer  8) ).

Fixed.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Since the tomato, prophet and IP have totally taken this thing off track I will make a valiant attempt to bring it back into focus.

What is wrong with small groups?

While my own small group experience is limited and recent it has been generally positive.  I am wondering if anyone has had actual, long term experience they could share (not opinion based on "I heard" or suspicions borne out of ignorance. Yes Frag, that eliminates you from those eligible to answer  8) ).

To Mater and Peerophet a church meets around the kitchen table and everyone yodels or gives a word of prophecy or passes the potatoes.

Most small groups are larger than most kitchen tables, so in a way, according to kitchen table theology, some of our small groups are mega churches.

Just trying to help you get the thread back on track. 

 

[ALAYMAN]

What is wrong with small groups?

I shall henceforth endeavor to answer your question, with quotes from those who are somewhat more in-the-know....


When word gets out that something significant is going on in so-and-so's living room, you'll attract two kinds of people who can spell trouble: (1) those with emotional or psychological problems who see your group as a crisis intervention center, and (2) offbeat theological nomads looking for a group to take over.

 

[FSSL]

When word gets out that something significant is going on in so-and-so's living room, you'll attract two kinds of people who can spell trouble: (1) those with emotional or psychological problems who see your group as a crisis intervention center, and (2) offbeat theological nomads looking for a group to take over.

Alayman has a small group!!! 

 

[christundivided]

What is wrong with small groups?

I shall henceforth endeavor to answer your question, with quotes from those who are somewhat more in-the-know....


When word gets out that something significant is going on in so-and-so's living room, you'll attract two kinds of people who can spell trouble: (1) those with emotional or psychological problems who see your group as a crisis intervention center, and (2) offbeat theological nomads looking for a group to take over.

Why do you pretend this is different than with any other group? There is always someone looking to take over or fulfill some psychological need.

 

[subllibrm]

What is wrong with small groups?

I shall henceforth endeavor to answer your question, with quotes from those who are somewhat more in-the-know....


When word gets out that something significant is going on in so-and-so's living room, you'll attract two kinds of people who can spell trouble: (1) those with emotional or psychological problems who see your group as a crisis intervention center, and (2) offbeat theological nomads looking for a group to take over.

So does that make it wrong or warn of a potential risk?

Seriously.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Why do you pretend this is different than with any other group? There is always someone looking to take over or fulfill some psychological need.

A pastor is an overseer, who ought to be able to protect the sheep.  The calling of "small group leader" (found in 2nd Nowhere Chapter Nothing) doesn't have the same promises attached to it.

So does that make it wrong or warn of a potential risk?

"Wrong" might be a bit strong, but a potential pitfall to watch out for, yep.

 

[christundivided]

Why do you pretend this is different than with any other group? There is always someone looking to take over or fulfill some psychological need.

A pastor is an overseer, who ought to be able to protect the sheep.  The calling of "small group leader" (found in 2nd Nowhere Chapter Nothing) doesn't have the same promises attached to it.

This is really laughable.

The "overseer" of the Scripture "protected" a much larger group of sheep than the little church you attend. They "oversaw" the entire community. They didn't have to compete with other little "small groups".

In comparison. You have a "little small group". Its hilarious how you've found some a distinction between yourself and "other little small groups". Hilarious.

How many "churches" you have in your area?

 

[ALAYMAN]

Why do you pretend this is different than with any other group? There is always someone looking to take over or fulfill some psychological need.

A pastor is an overseer, who ought to be able to protect the sheep.  The calling of "small group leader" (found in 2nd Nowhere Chapter Nothing) doesn't have the same promises attached to it.

This is really laughable.

The "overseer" of the Scripture "protected" a much larger group of sheep than the little church you attend. They "oversaw" the entire community. They didn't have to compete with other little "small groups".

In comparison. You have a "little small group". Its hilarious how you've found some a distinction between yourself and "other little small groups". Hilarious.

How many "churches" you have in your area?

A pastor oversees his flock, not the flock entrusted to other overseers.

 

[christundivided]

Why do you pretend this is different than with any other group? There is always someone looking to take over or fulfill some psychological need.

A pastor is an overseer, who ought to be able to protect the sheep.  The calling of "small group leader" (found in 2nd Nowhere Chapter Nothing) doesn't have the same promises attached to it.

This is really laughable.

The "overseer" of the Scripture "protected" a much larger group of sheep than the little church you attend. They "oversaw" the entire community. They didn't have to compete with other little "small groups".

In comparison. You have a "little small group". Its hilarious how you've found some a distinction between yourself and "other little small groups". Hilarious.

How many "churches" you have in your area?

A pastor oversees his flock, not the flock entrusted to other overseers.

Yeah..... and that "flock" is defined by "who"?

 

[prophet]

Since the tomato, prophet and IP have totally taken this thing off track I will make a valiant attempt to bring it back into focus.

What is wrong with small groups?

While my own small group experience is limited and recent it has been generally positive.  I am wondering if anyone has had actual, long term experience they could share (not opinion based on "I heard" or suspicions borne out of ignorance. Yes Frag, that eliminates you from those eligible to answer  8) ).

To Mater and Peerophet a church meets around the kitchen table and everyone yodels or gives a word of prophecy or passes the potatoes.

Most small groups are larger than most kitchen tables, so in a way, according to kitchen table theology, some of our small groups are mega churches.

Just trying to help you get the thread back on track. 

I like the "peerophet".
Kinda hard not to laugh, that is great humor.

 

[prophet]

Why do you pretend this is different than with any other group? There is always someone looking to take over or fulfill some psychological need.

A pastor is an overseer, who ought to be able to protect the sheep.  The calling of "small group leader" (found in 2nd Nowhere Chapter Nothing) doesn't have the same promises attached to it.

So does that make it wrong or warn of a potential risk?

"Wrong" might be a bit strong, but a potential pitfall to watch out for, yep.

The "calling of a pastor" is found in the same book.