Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary admits Muslim

BandGuy said:

If everything is as explained in the news release, I don't see a problem with it in the given context.

"Patterson said he has made similar exceptions on rare occasions during his presidencies at Southwestern, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, and Criswell College. He estimated having done so four or five times in his nearly 40 years of academic administration. His intention for the exceptions each time, including this one, was based on a desire to see these individuals understand the good news of Jesus Christ."

It is an ancillary program that can be used to share the gospel with a lost person. At least that's how I see it.

I do, however, take issue with the use of the term "peaceful Muslims" but we can speak to that issue in another thread.
 
As a SBC pastor...I am not sure the Seminary is the place for evangelism... If it is, we have a problem.
 
T-Bone said:
As a SBC pastor...I am not sure the Seminary is the place for evangelism... If it is, we have a problem.
T-Bone you were adamant the convention was not liberal in another thread. Still sticking to your guns?
 
ItinerantPreacher said:
T-Bone you were adamant the convention was not liberal in another thread. Still sticking to your guns?

If one poor admissions decision makes the entire SBC "lilberal," then by your own logic, thanks to Jack Schaap, Bob Gray, A.V. Ballenger and Joe Coombs, you're a child molester four times over.
 
ItinerantPreacher said:
T-Bone said:
As a SBC pastor...I am not sure the Seminary is the place for evangelism... If it is, we have a problem.
T-Bone you were adamant the convention was not liberal in another thread. Still sticking to your guns?

Yes I am adamant the convention is not liberal...your definition of the term and understanding of how the SBC works is lacking, at least from my perspective. The workings of this one seminary, while I may not agree with them is hardly liberal. I don't know of anyone who would put Patterson in liberal camp...matter of fact he acts more like IFB and his theology is very conservative.

Why do you run to liberal label just because there is a disagreement of policy? 
 
Green Beret said:
BandGuy said:

If everything is as explained in the news release, I don't see a problem with it in the given context.

"Patterson said he has made similar exceptions on rare occasions during his presidencies at Southwestern, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, and Criswell College. He estimated having done so four or five times in his nearly 40 years of academic administration. His intention for the exceptions each time, including this one, was based on a desire to see these individuals understand the good news of Jesus Christ."

It is an ancillary program that can be used to share the gospel with a lost person. At least that's how I see it.

I do, however, take issue with the use of the term "peaceful Muslims" but we can speak to that issue in another thread.

Here is my problem:

1.  A seminary is not a place to get saved.  It is a place for those who are Christians already to prepare for ministry and leadership.
2.  Southwestern's own admissions application confirms this:  http://admissions.swbts.edu/apply/apply-now/application-process/
3.  Further, people who are Christians who have gone through a divorce would have a harder time being admitted to the seminary than this guy probably did.
4.  If we are now using seminary enrollment as a tool for evangelism, do we then also admit homosexuals, atheists, Mormons, etc...?  If not, why not?
5.  The standard for being a student at Southwestern has shifted from being a Christian called to the ministry to being a non-Christian who can keep a moral code list of do's and don'ts.  That's a dangerous standard to have for a Seminary whose purpose is to train ministers to lead our Churches.
 
T-Bone said:
ItinerantPreacher said:
T-Bone said:
As a SBC pastor...I am not sure the Seminary is the place for evangelism... If it is, we have a problem.
T-Bone you were adamant the convention was not liberal in another thread. Still sticking to your guns?

Yes I am adamant the convention is not liberal...your definition of the term and understanding of how the SBC works is lacking, at least from my perspective. The workings of this one seminary, while I may not agree with them is hardly liberal. I don't know of anyone who would put Patterson in liberal camp...matter of fact he acts more like IFB and his theology is very conservative.

Why do you run to liberal label just because there is a disagreement of policy?
Liberal is just a label, it is used to describe a lot of things.

When I see a statement that any evangelical college is allowing an unbeliever of any kind to be a student, I have to wonder how they could think this is possible. First of all, it is a violation of the principle purpose of a "Seminary or "Bible College", which is the training of people for the ministry. Secondly, it is a violation of separation as described in 2 Corinthians 6:14-18. When an unbeliever is admitted into a college/seminary ministry, the only way to deal with him is to water down the message. The purpose of the seminary or college is not even  to gather the saved, but to gather or provide a place those among the saved who want to specifically invest in furthering their walk, specifically in the are of church ministry. So, things are taught and said that have no place for the unbeliever. Matthew 7:6. The watered down message is going to result in watered down classes and watered down graduates.

You refer to it as "policy", but in effect it is "practice". What we believe ought to affect what we practice, and if you like the word policy, we ought to make policies that reflect what we practice that in turn resulted from what we believe. There is a huge interconnection between belief and practice.  A simplified way of saying this might be "My beliefs affect my practice, and as I organize I institute policies that reflect my practice and belief. The problem is, historically, policies are the last thing to change, because changing policies opens a can of worms. The underlying beliefs and practices have already changed before the policy gets changed. If the belief and practice had not changed, neither would the policy.

Hence, changing from "conservative" scripture based policies is the drift into liberalism.

Edit: I wanted to answer out of respect, I have other posts I still want to answer, but Sunday is getting closer, gotta keep my eye on the ball, I will respond, but not right away.
 
ItinerantPreacher said:
Liberal is just a label, it is used to describe a lot of things.

Right. So "the SBC is liberal" means no more than "ItinerantPreacher is liberal."
 
ItinerantPreacher said:
T-Bone said:
ItinerantPreacher said:
T-Bone said:
As a SBC pastor...I am not sure the Seminary is the place for evangelism... If it is, we have a problem.
T-Bone you were adamant the convention was not liberal in another thread. Still sticking to your guns?

Yes I am adamant the convention is not liberal...your definition of the term and understanding of how the SBC works is lacking, at least from my perspective. The workings of this one seminary, while I may not agree with them is hardly liberal. I don't know of anyone who would put Patterson in liberal camp...matter of fact he acts more like IFB and his theology is very conservative.

Why do you run to liberal label just because there is a disagreement of policy?
Liberal is just a label, it is used to describe a lot of things.

When I see a statement that any evangelical college is allowing an unbeliever of any kind to be a student, I have to wonder how they could think this is possible. First of all, it is a violation of the principle purpose of a "Seminary or "Bible College", which is the training of people for the ministry. Secondly, it is a violation of separation as described in 2 Corinthians 6:14-18. When an unbeliever is admitted into a college/seminary ministry, the only way to deal with him is to water down the message. The purpose of the seminary or college is not even  to gather the saved, but to gather or provide a place those among the saved who want to specifically invest in furthering their walk, specifically in the are of church ministry. So, things are taught and said that have no place for the unbeliever. Matthew 7:6. The watered down message is going to result in watered down classes and watered down graduates.

You refer to it as "policy", but in effect it is "practice". What we believe ought to affect what we practice, and if you like the word policy, we ought to make policies that reflect what we practice that in turn resulted from what we believe. There is a huge interconnection between belief and practice.  A simplified way of saying this might be "My beliefs affect my practice, and as I organize I institute policies that reflect my practice and belief. The problem is, historically, policies are the last thing to change, because changing policies opens a can of worms. The underlying beliefs and practices have already changed before the policy gets changed. If the belief and practice had not changed, neither would the policy.

Hence, changing from "conservative" scripture based policies is the drift into liberalism.

Edit: I wanted to answer out of respect, I have other posts I still want to answer, but Sunday is getting closer, gotta keep my eye on the ball, I will respond, but not right away.

You've said nothing new, nor have you said anything that makes the SBC liberal. I could get nasty and tell you to clean your own house... There is much work to do.  Bad decisions like this one are there & we will deal with it. But it hardly makes the SBC or even in this case Patterson liberal.
 
"Liberal is just a label, it is used to describe a lot of things. "

In other words, "Ehh, what's true doesn't matter, rather what I want to label it does".  This is so indicative of extremism I despise. For an X'er most everything they disagree with is "liberal" which neuters any real meaning of the word. Same with the term "neo-evangelical". It's just a knee-jerk reaction and it's meaning most always hollow.

 
I'm not sure what to think of the OP but I have heard the following verses used in a modern day political context to show how "liberals" are not right with God.  This defines "Ruckmanism" and many other "King James Onlyists" to a T. They will use many words in the King James that have changed in meaning over several centuries and put them in modern settings to prove whatever point they want.  They will have a straight face while saying it.

Isaiah 32:5
5 The vile person shall be no more called liberal, nor the churl said to be bountiful.

Isaiah 32:8
8 But the liberal deviseth liberal things; and by liberal things shall he stand.

 
Then according to the KJV, God is a liberal and better watch out...

James 1:5
5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him.
 
"Liberal" means "generous".

God is a liberal.

We are to be, also.

If we are, we will be made "fat" (blessed).

Anishinaabe

 
Seems the word liberal is liberal in its connotations!  :eek:
 
How did we get to this point in our conversation and could we please get back to the actual topic of the conversation?
 
ItinerantPreacher said:
T-Bone said:
As a SBC pastor...I am not sure the Seminary is the place for evangelism... If it is, we have a problem.
T-Bone you were adamant the convention was not liberal in another thread. Still sticking to your guns?


I guess this makes every SBC church, preacher, deacon, Sunday school teacher, church member and softball coach flaming liberals. Who knew?

ChuckBob

 
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