Spurgeon on Religious Grumblers

[Reformed Guy]

Somebody forward this to STUFFFUNDIESLIKE...

WHEN a man has a particularly empty head, he generally sets up for a great judge, especially in religion. None is so wise as the man who knows nothing. His ignorance is the mother of his impudence and the nurse of his obstinacy; and though he does not know a bee from a bull's foot, he settles matters as if all wisdom were at his fingers' ends—the Pope himself is not more infallible. Hear him talk after he has been at a meeting and heard a sermon, and you will know how to pull a good man to pieces if you never knew it before. He sees faults where there are none; and if there be a few things amiss, he makes every mouse into an elephant. Although you might put all his wit into an eggshell, he weighs the sermon in the balances of his conceit with all the airs of a born-and-bred Solomon. If it be up to his standard, he lays on his praise with a trowel; but if it be not to his taste, he growls and barks and snaps at it like a dog at a hedgehog. Wise men in this world are like trees in a hedge; there is only here and there one. When these rare men talk together upon a discourse, it is good for the ears to hear them; but the bragging wiseacres 1 am speaking of are vainly puffed up by their fleshly minds, and their quibbling is as senseless as the cackle of geese on a common. Nothing comes out of a sack but what was in it; and as their bag is empty, they shake nothing but wind out of it. It is very likely that neither ministers nor their sermons are perfect—the best garden may have a few weeds in it, the cleanest corn may have some chaff—but cavaliers cavil at anything or nothing, and find fault for the sake of showing off their deep knowledge. Sooner than let their tongues have a holiday, they would complain that the grass is not a nice shade of blue and say that the sky would have looked neater if it had been whitewashed.

 

[subllibrm]

Somebody forward this to STUFFFUNDIESLIKE...

WHEN a man has a particularly empty head, he generally sets up for a great judge, especially in religion. None is so wise as the man who knows nothing. His ignorance is the mother of his impudence and the nurse of his obstinacy; and though he does not know a bee from a bull's foot, he settles matters as if all wisdom were at his fingers' ends—the Pope himself is not more infallible. Hear him talk after he has been at a meeting and heard a sermon, and you will know how to pull a good man to pieces if you never knew it before. He sees faults where there are none; and if there be a few things amiss, he makes every mouse into an elephant. Although you might put all his wit into an eggshell, he weighs the sermon in the balances of his conceit with all the airs of a born-and-bred Solomon. If it be up to his standard, he lays on his praise with a trowel; but if it be not to his taste, he growls and barks and snaps at it like a dog at a hedgehog. Wise men in this world are like trees in a hedge; there is only here and there one. When these rare men talk together upon a discourse, it is good for the ears to hear them; but the bragging wiseacres 1 am speaking of are vainly puffed up by their fleshly minds, and their quibbling is as senseless as the cackle of geese on a common. Nothing comes out of a sack but what was in it; and as their bag is empty, they shake nothing but wind out of it. It is very likely that neither ministers nor their sermons are perfect—the best garden may have a few weeds in it, the cleanest corn may have some chaff—but cavaliers cavil at anything or nothing, and find fault for the sake of showing off their deep knowledge. Sooner than let their tongues have a holiday, they would complain that the grass is not a nice shade of blue and say that the sky would have looked neater if it had been whitewashed.

Or to any of the SBC haters here.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Maybe the Reformed Calvinists should also take notice. 

 

[AmazedbyGrace]

There are people who complain about pointless things like the color of the church carpet.

There are people who are pointing out theological error, abuse, and immorality in the pastorate.

One first is done just to annoy, the other to attempt to shine a light and bring about improvements. Sadly, some stubbornly wish to keep the status quo and the carpet lumpy.

Why not talk about the actual issues instead of whining about people talking about the actual issues?

 

[ALAYMAN]

There are people who complain about pointless things like the color of the church carpet.

There are people who are pointing out theological error, abuse, and immorality in the pastorate.

One first is done just to annoy, the other to attempt to shine a light and bring about improvements. Sadly, some stubbornly wish to keep the status quo and the carpet lumpy.

Why not talk about the actual issues instead of whining about people talking about the actual issues?

I have zero problem with presenting issues that you (generic "you") disagree with, but have very little respect for the manner in which the conversation transpired when I occasionally used to read over there.  It's the same sort of style that BASSENCO used.  She wanted to monologue, not dialogue.

 

[subllibrm]

There are people who complain about pointless things like the color of the church carpet.

There are people who are pointing out theological error, abuse, and immorality in the pastorate.

One first is done just to annoy, the other to attempt to shine a light and bring about improvements. Sadly, some stubbornly wish to keep the status quo and the carpet lumpy.

Why not talk about the actual issues instead of whining about people talking about the actual issues?

I have zero problem with presenting issues that you (generic "you") disagree with, but have very little respect for the manner in which the conversation transpired when I occasionally used to read over there.  It's the same sort of style that BASSENCO used.  She wanted to monologue, not dialogue.

Truth!

 

[AmazedbyGrace]

Imagine an IFB where pervs are universally turned over to the police and barred from leadership; where pastors who teach for doctrine the commandments of men are called on the carpet; where deacons actually have the best interest of God's church in mind (instead of being "yes men"); where victims are comforted and not silenced; where real education is encouraged and open debates are allowed because no one is scared of discovering the truth.

Stop tolerating a sick and often heretical version of IFB and demand change.

 

[subllibrm]

Imagine an IFB where pervs are universally turned over to the police and barred from leadership; where pastors who teach for doctrine the commandments of men are called on the carpet; where deacons actually have the best interest of God's church in mind (instead of being "yes men"); where victims are comforted and not silenced; where real education is encouraged and open debates are allowed because no one is scared of discovering the truth.

Stop tolerating a sick and often heretical version of IFB and demand change.

Who would you have me demand this from?

Went around with Bass over on SFL for this very thing. Since I didn't generate enough righteous indignation to satisfy her she accused me of supporting "them". How would that work exactly?

Me: Hi, this is Bill, could I speak to Pastor Philanderer please?
Secretary: Bill who?
Me: What difference does that make? I am filled with righteous indignation and must demand that Pastor change. Please put me through to him so that I may berate him.
Secretary: Goodbye

On this ground I agree with Frag, the person complaining must have some standing to demand such. Since I have no standing with any of the IFB why would they listen to me any more than they listen to you or her?

Now this is the part where I get accused of overlooking sin committed by men I have never met against people I don't know.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Imagine an IFB where pervs are universally turned over to the police and barred from leadership; where pastors who teach for doctrine the commandments of men are called on the carpet; where deacons actually have the best interest of God's church in mind (instead of being "yes men"); where victims are comforted and not silenced; where real education is encouraged and open debates are allowed because no one is scared of discovering the truth.

Stop tolerating a sick and often heretical version of IFB and demand change.

I agree.

Here is another example of the corruption run amok. This former IFB pastor took suicide as his option while he was in the act of being arrested:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/07/21/5058530/former-pastor-kills-self-when.html#.U85paM7l5TM

Yes, he was IFB, part of the KJV clan:

http://fundamental.org/fundamental/churches/index.php3?action=viewchurch&ChurchID=5407

 

[subllibrm]

Imagine an IFB where pervs are universally turned over to the police and barred from leadership; where pastors who teach for doctrine the commandments of men are called on the carpet; where deacons actually have the best interest of God's church in mind (instead of being "yes men"); where victims are comforted and not silenced; where real education is encouraged and open debates are allowed because no one is scared of discovering the truth.

Stop tolerating a sick and often heretical version of IFB and demand change.

I agree.

Here is another example of the corruption run amok. This former IFB pastor took suicide as his option while he was in the act of being arrested:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/07/21/5058530/former-pastor-kills-self-when.html#.U85paM7l5TM

Yes, he was IFB, part of the KJV clan:

http://fundamental.org/fundamental/churches/index.php3?action=viewchurch&ChurchID=5407

I don't get it. The article says "former" and the church pages says he is the pastor. So which is it?

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Imagine an IFB where pervs are universally turned over to the police and barred from leadership; where pastors who teach for doctrine the commandments of men are called on the carpet; where deacons actually have the best interest of God's church in mind (instead of being "yes men"); where victims are comforted and not silenced; where real education is encouraged and open debates are allowed because no one is scared of discovering the truth.

Stop tolerating a sick and often heretical version of IFB and demand change.

I agree.

Here is another example of the corruption run amok. This former IFB pastor took suicide as his option while he was in the act of being arrested:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/07/21/5058530/former-pastor-kills-self-when.html#.U85paM7l5TM

Yes, he was IFB, part of the KJV clan:

http://fundamental.org/fundamental/churches/index.php3?action=viewchurch&ChurchID=5407

I don't get it. The article says "former" and the church pages says he is the pastor. So which is it?

I think being dead disqualifies him from being a current pastor. 

 

[Ransom]

I don't get it. The article says "former" and the church pages says he is the pastor. So which is it?

It's not a church page. It's a listing on a third-party directory of IFB churches, and they are not always up to date. I remember finding a former pastor of mine listed on one years after that particular church had ceased to exist.

 

[subllibrm]

I don't get it. The article says "former" and the church pages says he is the pastor. So which is it?

It's not a church page. It's a listing on a third-party directory of IFB churches, and they are not always up to date. I remember finding a former pastor of mine listed on one years after that particular church had ceased to exist.

Ah, got it.

So maybe he was the "former pastor" because his church did the right thing.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

I don't get it. The article says "former" and the church pages says he is the pastor. So which is it?

It's not a church page. It's a listing on a third-party directory of IFB churches, and they are not always up to date. I remember finding a former pastor of mine listed on one years after that particular church had ceased to exist.

Ah, got it.

So maybe he was the "former pastor" because his church did the right thing.

It is possible. Though this church is in my town, I'm not sure of the whole story. I'm still trying to gather the info.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Imagine an IFB where pervs are universally turned over to the police and barred from leadership; where pastors who teach for doctrine the commandments of men are called on the carpet; where deacons actually have the best interest of God's church in mind (instead of being "yes men"); where victims are comforted and not silenced; where real education is encouraged and open debates are allowed because no one is scared of discovering the truth.

Stop tolerating a sick and often heretical version of IFB and demand change.

I agree.

Here is another example of the corruption run amok. This former IFB pastor took suicide as his option while he was in the act of being arrested:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/07/21/5058530/former-pastor-kills-self-when.html#.U85paM7l5TM

Yes, he was IFB, part of the KJV clan:

http://fundamental.org/fundamental/churches/index.php3?action=viewchurch&ChurchID=5407

I don't get it. The article says "former" and the church pages says he is the pastor. So which is it?

From what I was able to gather, he resigned his church in 2011 when the original allegations surfaced. I don't know if that means it was of his own volition or if it was due to pressure from the church though.

 

[subllibrm]

Imagine an IFB where pervs are universally turned over to the police and barred from leadership; where pastors who teach for doctrine the commandments of men are called on the carpet; where deacons actually have the best interest of God's church in mind (instead of being "yes men"); where victims are comforted and not silenced; where real education is encouraged and open debates are allowed because no one is scared of discovering the truth.

Stop tolerating a sick and often heretical version of IFB and demand change.

I agree.

Here is another example of the corruption run amok. This former IFB pastor took suicide as his option while he was in the act of being arrested:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/07/21/5058530/former-pastor-kills-self-when.html#.U85paM7l5TM

Yes, he was IFB, part of the KJV clan:

http://fundamental.org/fundamental/churches/index.php3?action=viewchurch&ChurchID=5407

I don't get it. The article says "former" and the church pages says he is the pastor. So which is it?

From what I was able to gather, he resigned his church in 2011 when the original allegations surfaced. I don't know if that means it was of his own volition or if it was due to pressure from the church though.

At least he didn't deny it, stay in the pulpit and keep on preaching against pants on women.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Imagine an IFB where pervs are universally turned over to the police and barred from leadership; where pastors who teach for doctrine the commandments of men are called on the carpet; where deacons actually have the best interest of God's church in mind (instead of being "yes men"); where victims are comforted and not silenced; where real education is encouraged and open debates are allowed because no one is scared of discovering the truth.

Stop tolerating a sick and often heretical version of IFB and demand change.

I agree.

Here is another example of the corruption run amok. This former IFB pastor took suicide as his option while he was in the act of being arrested:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/07/21/5058530/former-pastor-kills-self-when.html#.U85paM7l5TM

Yes, he was IFB, part of the KJV clan:

http://fundamental.org/fundamental/churches/index.php3?action=viewchurch&ChurchID=5407

I don't get it. The article says "former" and the church pages says he is the pastor. So which is it?

From what I was able to gather, he resigned his church in 2011 when the original allegations surfaced. I don't know if that means it was of his own volition or if it was due to pressure from the church though.

At least he didn't deny it, stay in the pulpit and keep on preaching against pants on women.

He apparently did deny as the arrest was now being made, 10 years after the alleged incidents occured. If he had truly confessed, he would have been in prison long ago (assuming he was legitimately guilty of the accusations).