Stupidest fundy argument ever

You are wrong because you are a woman!  I won't learn anything from a woman, because God said that women are to be silent! 
 
Binaca Chugger said:
Boomer said:
Binaca Chugger said:
"Music that does not have the downbeat on the one of a 4/4 timing is rock music and goes against God's order."

So much for the Doxology.
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I've heard this argument many times. I just can't see where it came from. There is never a biblical text to back it up except for verses that denounce being worldly.
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MZ promoted it long and hard.  I never understood his arguments.  I would listen to his definition and then look at the hymnal and determine most of those songs met his definition of wrong (Maybe I just misunderstood his teaching?).  Watch "Pop Goes the Music" by Frank Garlock.  He does a much better job explaining the difference in rhythm and its effects and why some should be avoided. 

There is Bible for avoiding the music of Egypt - especially to never use the music of Egypt to worship the LORD.
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Help me out here.  How do we ascertain from the Scriptures what is the "music of Egypt"?  I know the Bible makes no reference to the mechanics of music that I can find and mentions the use of all types of musical instruments in worship and day to day life in Israel.  So I am interested to know how we identify "music of Egypt" from "acceptable music". 
 
An argument against women wearing pants went something like this...

...Women should not wear a "parted" garment. Parted garments were designed for men. No society in history allowed women to wear parted garments, so they (parted garments) must be considered men's clothing exclusively.



People who argue along this line of reasoning sometimes put forth the notion that Jesus wore pants, and that the "breeches" described in the Levitical law code referred to an outer garment.
 
Good one!  I got a good chuckle out of it.

This is something I came across years ago and the music issue for me.  Investigate - talk further if you want.

I posted this elsewhere, but a very condensed version (So we don't hijack the thread) goes like this:

Ex 32 - Only mention I can find of God not happy with the music.  But it is not just the music.  The key is in vs 5.  They are worshiping the LORD.

They make a golden calf.  We need to recognize that in Egyptian religion the bull is the god of power.  So, Aaron, to help the people understand in their terminology, makes a representative of the Son of the God of Power and tells them they will worship the LORD.

They worship in the manner of Egypt, dress in the manner of Egypt and sing in the manner of Egypt.  All to worship the LORD.

God's response is wrath.

Egypt represents the world.  Hence, our attempt to worship a holy God, who demands that we worship Him in the beauty of holiness, in the manner of the world is not accepted by God.  Consider also Cain who desired to worship God in his own manner rather than the manner described by God.
 
[quote author=Binaca Chugger]I posted this elsewhere, but a very condensed version (So we don't hijack the thread) goes like this:

Ex 32 - Only mention I can find of God not happy with the music.  But it is not just the music.  The key is in vs 5.  They are worshiping the LORD. [/quote]

Moses was the one that wasn't happy about the music...or more accurately, what it represented (and it didn't have anything to with how Egyptian it was). God wasn't happy with the blatant idolatry. Furthermore...

...Amos explicitly mentions music that made God sick...and it was church music.

[quote author=Binaca Chugger]They make a golden calf.  We need to recognize that in Egyptian religion the bull is the god of power.  So, Aaron, to help the people understand in their terminology, makes a representative of the Son of the God of Power and tells them they will worship the LORD.[/quote]

Calves were common idols at the time...for a variety of reasons.

[quote author=Binaca Chugger]They worship in the manner of Egypt, dress in the manner of Egypt and sing in the manner of Egypt.  All to worship the LORD.

God's response is wrath.[/quote]

One of these is not like the others.

[quote author=Binaca Chugger]Egypt represents the world. Hence, our attempt to worship a holy God, who demands that we worship Him in the beauty of holiness, in the manner of the world is not accepted by God.[/quote]

Can you define "the world"?

[quote author=Binaca Chugger]Consider also Cain who desired to worship God in his own manner rather than the manner described by God.[/quote]

Why Cain's sacrifice was rejected is a matter of some debate.
 
Binaca Chugger said:
Good one!  I got a good chuckle out of it.

This is something I came across years ago and the music issue for me.  Investigate - talk further if you want.

I posted this elsewhere, but a very condensed version (So we don't hijack the thread) goes like this:

Ex 32 - Only mention I can find of God not happy with the music.  But it is not just the music.  The key is in vs 5.  They are worshiping the LORD.

They make a golden calf.  We need to recognize that in Egyptian religion the bull is the god of power.  So, Aaron, to help the people understand in their terminology, makes a representative of the Son of the God of Power and tells them they will worship the LORD.

They worship in the manner of Egypt, dress in the manner of Egypt and sing in the manner of Egypt.  All to worship the LORD.

God's response is wrath.

Egypt represents the world.  Hence, our attempt to worship a holy God, who demands that we worship Him in the beauty of holiness, in the manner of the world is not accepted by God.  Consider also Cain who desired to worship God in his own manner rather than the manner described by God.
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I did see your post on the other thread and I promised not to hijack the thread so I didn't respond.  I am still trying to understand how we can identify definitively based on Scripture what the "music of Egypt" is especially considering the word music does not appear in the passage you are referencing.  Actually the first time I find the word music mentioned is in 1 Samuel. 

I find most of the music pronouncements are taste driven without Scriptural support.  For instance, Southern Gospel is nothing more than country music with different lyrics--same instruments, same rhythms, same voice intonations, etc.  Yet many do not classify this as "Egyptian music". 

I do not deny there are very wrong ways to "worship" God.  I do not, however, understand what Scriptural criteria can be used to deal with specific sounds, genres, rhythms, instruments, etc. to classify them as "Egyptian".  I have done word studies on music, sing, dance, and all the derivatives and I have been unable to find concrete terms identify "Egypt's music".  Any information that you can provide along these lines would be greatly appreciated. 
 
Just me said:
Be careful, that is God's man or else God will send the she-bears to get ya.....
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But only if the mannagawd is bald, and you specifically make fun of his baldness...

I used to try to keep my junior high Sunday School class in line with that one.  They
didn't buy it either. :o
 
graceandtruth said:
Binaca Chugger said:
Good one!  I got a good chuckle out of it.

This is something I came across years ago and the music issue for me.  Investigate - talk further if you want.

I posted this elsewhere, but a very condensed version (So we don't hijack the thread) goes like this:

Ex 32 - Only mention I can find of God not happy with the music.  But it is not just the music.  The key is in vs 5.  They are worshiping the LORD.

They make a golden calf.  We need to recognize that in Egyptian religion the bull is the god of power.  So, Aaron, to help the people understand in their terminology, makes a representative of the Son of the God of Power and tells them they will worship the LORD.

They worship in the manner of Egypt, dress in the manner of Egypt and sing in the manner of Egypt.  All to worship the LORD.

God's response is wrath.

Egypt represents the world.  Hence, our attempt to worship a holy God, who demands that we worship Him in the beauty of holiness, in the manner of the world is not accepted by God.  Consider also Cain who desired to worship God in his own manner rather than the manner described by God.
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I did see your post on the other thread and I promised not to hijack the thread so I didn't respond.  I am still trying to understand how we can identify definitively based on Scripture what the "music of Egypt" is especially considering the word music does not appear in the passage you are referencing.  Actually the first time I find the word music mentioned is in 1 Samuel. 

I find most of the music pronouncements are taste driven without Scriptural support.  For instance, Southern Gospel is nothing more than country music with different lyrics--same instruments, same rhythms, same voice intonations, etc.  Yet many do not classify this as "Egyptian music". 

I do not deny there are very wrong ways to "worship" God.  I do not, however, understand what Scriptural criteria can be used to deal with specific sounds, genres, rhythms, instruments, etc. to classify them as "Egyptian".  I have done word studies on music, sing, dance, and all the derivatives and I have been unable to find concrete terms identify "Egypt's music".  Any information that you can provide along these lines would be greatly appreciated.
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I'll take this to a PM to let the thread continue.
 
As to the music issue... It was all settled in a book titled "Their rock is not as our Rock".
The title comes from Deut 32:31, "For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges" (KJV)

or so I heard once
 
rsc2a said:
[quote author=Binaca Chugger]I posted this elsewhere, but a very condensed version (So we don't hijack the thread) goes like this:

Ex 32 - Only mention I can find of God not happy with the music.  But it is not just the music.  The key is in vs 5.  They are worshiping the LORD.
Click to expand...

Moses was the one that wasn't happy about the music...or more accurately, what it represented (and it didn't have anything to with how Egyptian it was). God wasn't happy with the blatant idolatry. Furthermore...

...Amos explicitly mentions music that made God sick...and it was church music.

[quote author=Binaca Chugger]They make a golden calf.  We need to recognize that in Egyptian religion the bull is the god of power.  So, Aaron, to help the people understand in their terminology, makes a representative of the Son of the God of Power and tells them they will worship the LORD.[/quote]

Calves were common idols at the time...for a variety of reasons.

[quote author=Binaca Chugger]They worship in the manner of Egypt, dress in the manner of Egypt and sing in the manner of Egypt.  All to worship the LORD.

God's response is wrath.[/quote]

One of these is not like the others.

[quote author=Binaca Chugger]Egypt represents the world. Hence, our attempt to worship a holy God, who demands that we worship Him in the beauty of holiness, in the manner of the world is not accepted by God.[/quote]

Can you define "the world"?

[quote author=Binaca Chugger]Consider also Cain who desired to worship God in his own manner rather than the manner described by God.[/quote]

Why Cain's sacrifice was rejected is a matter of some debate.
[/quote]

How right you are!  I forgot the inclusion of music in Amos.  But Amos is all about how God does not accept the religious practice of those living in carnality - "Yet have ye not returned unto me."  Here, I don't believe it is the music itself, but the the attempt of people living in blatant carnality and rejection of the Law to worship God.

Yes.  Calves were used for sacrifice, but I don't believe I am far off on why Aaron chose the calf.  Don't miss the key point - they were gathering to worship the LORD.

Define "World."  Seriously?  OK.  Try Matthew Henry on 1 John 2.

Now we return you to your regularly scheduled Stupid Fundy Arguments.
 
[quote author=Binaca Chugger]How right you are!  I forgot the inclusion of music in Amos.  But Amos is all about how God does not accept the religious practice of those living in carnality - "Yet have ye not returned unto me."  Here, I don't believe it is the music itself, but the the attempt of people living in blatant carnality and rejection of the Law to worship God.[/quote]

(See also: Exodus 32)

[quote author=Binaca Chugger]Yes.  Calves were used for sacrifice, but I don't believe I am far off on why Aaron chose the calf.  Don't miss the key point - they were gathering to worship the LORD.[/quote]

He chose a calf because it was a familiar way to portray the gods. The Israelites had no concepts of trinitarian theology and any worship of a "son of God" would have been a reversion to polytheism (not really all that surprising). The narrative isn't a picture of herodoxical worship of a triune God.

[quote author=Binaca Chugger]Define "World."  Seriously?  OK.  Try Matthew Henry on 1 John 2.[/quote]

I don't need Matthew Henry; I have Paul. And the "world" as Paul defines it (in this context) has everything to do with one people treat each other and nothing to do with drum kits or 4/4 beats.
 
rsc2a said:
[quote author=Binaca Chugger]How right you are!  I forgot the inclusion of music in Amos.  But Amos is all about how God does not accept the religious practice of those living in carnality - "Yet have ye not returned unto me."  Here, I don't believe it is the music itself, but the the attempt of people living in blatant carnality and rejection of the Law to worship God.
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(See also: Exodus 32)

[quote author=Binaca Chugger]Yes.  Calves were used for sacrifice, but I don't believe I am far off on why Aaron chose the calf.  Don't miss the key point - they were gathering to worship the LORD.[/quote]

He chose a calf because it was a familiar way to portray the gods. The Israelites had no concepts of trinitarian theology and any worship of a "son of God" would have been a reversion to polytheism (not really all that surprising). The narrative isn't a picture of herodoxical worship of a triune God.

[quote author=Binaca Chugger]Define "World."  Seriously?  OK.  Try Matthew Henry on 1 John 2.[/quote]

I don't need Matthew Henry; I have Paul. And the "world" as Paul defines it (in this context) has everything to do with one people treat each other and nothing to do with drum kits or 4/4 beats.
[/quote]

I started a new thread for this topic, since there seems to be a lot of conversation about it.  Now, we can go back to the humor of the stupid reasons fundies give for their stance, whether it be a good stance or not.
 
Just me said:
As to the music issue... It was all settled in a book titled "Their rock is not as our Rock".
The title comes from Deut 32:31, "For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges" (KJV)

or so I heard once
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I would like to have heard that ancient Hebrew Rock music!
 
Izdaari said:
Just me said:
As to the music issue... It was all settled in a book titled "Their rock is not as our Rock".
The title comes from Deut 32:31, "For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges" (KJV)

or so I heard once
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I would like to have heard that ancient Hebrew Rock music!
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Well I did A quick check with Cacy Kasum's Arabian Top 40 and it seems in the B.C. era there is a tie for the number one hit between:

The song about the peoples champion.... Ahab the Arab - Ray Stevens

and the song of the about king's champion... Steve Martin - King Tut (Live 1979)

I personally like the one about the King's champion best.

 
BALAAM said:
Jack Hyles once said that in the Garden of Eden there were ten different types of trees and only one of them was forbidden to Adam and Eve. When they partook of the fruit what they were doing in essence was stealing the tithe.

(I got a million of them so this thread may never end)!
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He said he got that from the arborist that ran Memory Lane. often wondered about that.
 
My old hyper-ifb pastor was on a rant about immodesty one Sunday night and claimed that even wedding gowns were getting immodest and that " ladies were buying their gowns and take them home and sew more material to them to make them acceptable to God"...
What women would pay hundreds for their gowns,maybe more, just to take them home to add material to them?
 
Recovering IFB said:
My old hyper-ifb pastor was on a rant about immodesty one Sunday night and claimed that even wedding gowns were getting immodest and that " ladies were buying their gowns and take them home and sew more material to them to make them acceptable to God"...
What women would pay hundreds for their gowns,maybe more, just to take them home to add material to them?
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I've sewn slits up, but I don't buy things that are tooo tight and don't fit anyway.....If the wedding gown was immodest which some are I wouldn't buy it.
 
Sherryh said:
Recovering IFB said:
My old hyper-ifb pastor was on a rant about immodesty one Sunday night and claimed that even wedding gowns were getting immodest and that " ladies were buying their gowns and take them home and sew more material to them to make them acceptable to God"...
What women would pay hundreds for their gowns,maybe more, just to take them home to add material to them?
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I've sewn slits up, but I don't buy things that are tooo tight and don't fit anyway.....If the wedding gown was immodest which some are I wouldn't buy it.
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My point exactly.
 
Recovering IFB said:
Sherryh said:
Recovering IFB said:
My old hyper-ifb pastor was on a rant about immodesty one Sunday night and claimed that even wedding gowns were getting immodest and that " ladies were buying their gowns and take them home and sew more material to them to make them acceptable to God"...
What women would pay hundreds for their gowns,maybe more, just to take them home to add material to them?
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I've sewn slits up, but I don't buy things that are tooo tight and don't fit anyway.....If the wedding gown was immodest which some are I wouldn't buy it.
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My point exactly.
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This is actually fairly common.  Many women buy a dress and then have it altered to fit them specifically and make small changes of personal preference.  These changes are just as varied as the ladies getting married.  Among many women who are concerned with modesty, it is common to close up some of the neckline so as not to reveal cleavage.  Not just an IFB thing.  Take it from someone with contacts in the wedding dress alterations industry!
 
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