The C.S.Lewis Problem

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Vince Massi

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C.S.Lewis was the first person to preach live (over the radio) to a million people at one time. His writings have been a major source of blessing to the saints, and he is well thought of by various Christian groups.

Yet he belonged to the Anglican Church, rejected Bible baptism, smoked, drank, and occasionally used off-color language. He taught that Mariolotry was partially true, and that pagan philosophies could be tools for reaching Christ.

Yet he never had a scandal.
 
His book, Mere Christianity, (the first part of it, anyway) played a pivotal role in my coming to know Christ.  And I loved his Screwtape Letters.  Why anyone thinks it matters if he smoked, drank, and occasionally used off-color language is beyond me. 

I don't agree with much else of what he taught.  And with some exceptions, I found his fiction to be very boring. 

Still, he was a great man, IMO.  I'm glad he lived and God used him as He did. 

So, I ask, what problem?

 
Is anyone else surprised that the fundy ignores such genuine theological problems as Lewis' rejection of substitutionary atonement, and instead highlights "Onoz! He's a Anglican and he smoke and drank! Ermagerd!"
 
Tomato, I appreciate your intelligent reply. This was brought on when I read an attack on Lewis by a prominent evangelist. The evangelist accused Lewis of being a liberal and urged Christians not to read his writings.

Decades ago, I read "The Screwtape Letters." Screwtape was a senior demon writing advice to a young demon named Wormwood, who had been assigned his first human. I was dismayed when Screwtape rebuked Wormwood for making a big issue out of the man cursing at a dog he tripped over, and of smoking too many cigarettes during an air raid. I felt they were big issues.

Screwtape went on to explain that how the man acted when he couldn't feel the presence of God was a genuine major issue, and the human had stayed true to God through the air raids. The man had been terrified, but he only got closer to God. Screwtape informed Wormwood that the young demon was failing because on the INSIDE, the man had a closer walk with God. THAT, Screwtape explained, was more important than what was on the outside.

This, uhm, did not represent the viewpoint I had received at HAC.
 
Ransom said:
Is anyone else surprised that the fundy ignores such genuine theological problems as Lewis' rejection of substitutionary atonement, and instead highlights "Onoz! He's a Anglican and he smoke and drank! Ermagerd!"
Click to expand...

Is PSA one of the fundamentals now? I missed that memo.
 
Vince Massi said:
Yet he belonged to the Anglican Church, rejected Bible baptism, smoked, drank, and occasionally used off-color language.
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I would loved to have had a bourbon and cigar and discussed theology with him.
 
Vince Massi said:
C.S.Lewis was the first person to preach live (over the radio) to a million people at one time. His writings have been a major source of blessing to the saints, and he is well thought of by various Christian groups.

Yet he belonged to the Anglican Church, rejected Bible baptism, smoked, drank, and occasionally used off-color language. He taught that Mariolotry was partially true, and that pagan philosophies could be tools for reaching Christ.

Yet he never had a scandal.
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All of those foibles apply to me too, except for the smoking. I too am Anglican, and am fine with CoE baptism practices. I drink in moderation. I'm ok with light veneration of Mary, but not worship -- she's a saint, not a god. I like some pagan philosophies (particularly Zen and Taoism). And I can and maybe will cuss like a sailor when sufficiently provoked. So?
 
Ransom said:
Is anyone else surprised that the fundy ignores such genuine theological problems as Lewis' rejection of substitutionary atonement, and instead highlights "Onoz! He's a Anglican and he smoke and drank! Ermagerd!"
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Propitiation (the Bible says 4 times that Jesus is the propitiation for our sins)

1:  the act of propitiating
2:  something that propitiates; specifically :  an atoning sacrifice

From Wikipedia: "George MacDonald, a universalist Christian theologian who was a great influence on Lewis, wrote against the idea that God was unable or unwilling to forgive humans without a substitutionary punishment in his Unspoken Sermons, and stated that he found the idea to be completely unjust."

Emphasis mine.  And that's one of the biggest flaws in man's interpretations of the Bible; that it must be wrong here and there because we know better regarding what God would or would not do. 

 
ddgently said:
Is PSA one of the fundamentals now? I missed that memo.
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Yeah, actually, a proper understanding of the Atonement is pretty fundamental to the Christian faith.
 
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I would loved to have had a bourbon and cigar and discussed theology with him.
[/quote]

Gotta hand it to you, Brother. That was a good one.
 
Lewis understood that genuine inner holiness wold produce genuine outward holiness. He also believed that man-made rules were either worthless or harmful.

In "Pilgrim's Regress," "John" is an unsaved man trying to get to the Celestial City. He encounters another traveler who tells John that he is determined to obey God, so he walks a certain number of miles a day. John asks him if God made that rule. "No," John replies, "I made it myself."

Lewis's hostility to man-made rules might be one of the reasons that the evangelist was opposed to him.
 
Vince Massi said:
Lewis understood that genuine inner holiness wold produce genuine outward holiness. He aslo believed that man-made rules were either worthless or harmful.

In "Pilgrim's Regress," "John" is an unsaved man trying to get to the Celestial City. He encounters another traveler who tells John that he is determined to obey God, so he walks a certain number of miles a day. John asks him if God made that rule. "No," John replies, "I made it myself."

Lewis's hostility to man-made rules might be one of the reasons that the evangelist was opposed to him.
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I find it interesting that there are people who claim to be saved by grace and then live a life of (at least metaphorically) self flagellation to show everyone how holy they are. I will deny myself this or that to show my devotion to God. That may not be a bad thing if God has led them to that denial. The problem is when it become a point of pride, or worse a measure of righteousness that they feel compelled to impose upon another believer.
 
Ransom said:
Is anyone else surprised that the fundy ignores such genuine theological problems as Lewis' rejection of substitutionary atonement...
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No,  Lewis doesn't.
 
subllibrm said:
Vince Massi said:
Lewis understood that genuine inner holiness wold produce genuine outward holiness. He aslo believed that man-made rules were either worthless or harmful.

In "Pilgrim's Regress," "John" is an unsaved man trying to get to the Celestial City. He encounters another traveler who tells John that he is determined to obey God, so he walks a certain number of miles a day. John asks him if God made that rule. "No," John replies, "I made it myself."

Lewis's hostility to man-made rules might be one of the reasons that the evangelist was opposed to him.
Click to expand...

I find it interesting that there are people who claim to be saved by grace and then live a life of (at least metaphorically) self flagellation to show everyone how holy they are. I will deny myself this or that to show my devotion to God. That may not be a bad thing if God has led them to that denial. The problem is when it become a point of pride, or worse a measure of righteousness that they feel compelled to impose upon another believer.
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That amounts to fraud.  It advertises that you can get a free Mercedes Benz, which you are allowed to keep as long as you make the monthly payments. 

 
Ransom said:
rsc2a said:
No,  Lewis doesn't.
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Not at present, no.
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No, he didn't.  Even in his children's novels,  he taught substitution.

Lewis's gripe was with the penal in PSA, not the substitution
 
Like C.S.Lewis, Charles Spurgeon is well thought of by different Christian groups, plus he never had a scandal. It might surprise many independent Baptists to learn that Spurgeon and his churches were members of the Baptist Union of Great Britain during most of his career, and that he didn't separate until late in life.

I had wondered why HAC did not sell any of his sermons in their bookstore, figuring that it must have been because Spurgeon was a Calvinist. But let me give you some of his quotes on smoking cigars:

"Well, dear friends, you know that some men can do to the glory of God what to other men would be sin. And notwithstanding what brother Pentecost has said, I intend to smoke a good cigar to the glory of God before I go to bed to-night."

"If anybody can show me in the Bible the command, 'Thou shalt not smoke,' I am ready to keep it; but I haven't found it yet. I find ten commandments, and it's as much as I can do to keep them; and I've no desire to make them into eleven or twelve."

"The fact is, I have been speaking to you about real sins, not about listening to mere quibbles and scruples."

"There is growing up in society a Pharisaic system which adds to the commands of God the precepts of men; to that system I will not yield for an hour. The preservation of my liberty may bring upon me the upbraidings of many good men, and the sneers of the self-righteous; but I shall endure both with serenity so long as I feel clear in my conscience before God."
 
Vince Massi said:
"There is growing up in society a Pharisaic system which adds to the commands of God the precepts of men; to that system I will not yield for an hour. The preservation of my liberty may bring upon me the upbraidings of many good men, and the sneers of the self-righteous; but I shall endure both with serenity so long as I feel clear in my conscience before God."
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Makes me wonder what he would think about sorting socks.  :-\


















;D
 
rsc2a said:
Ransom said:
rsc2a said:
No,  Lewis doesn't.
Click to expand...

Not at present, no.
Click to expand...

No, he didn't.  Even in his children's novels,  he taught substitution.

Lewis's gripe was with the penal in PSA, not the substitution
Click to expand...

I think a guy using a "Ransom" username would recognize the "Ransom Theory of Atonement" when he sees it. C.S. Lewis generally held to the ransom theory.

 
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