The Mega-Thread for COVID Evangelists

Ekklesian said:
*sigh*

Here. Go argue with these guys.

www.medrxiv.org

Observational Study on 255 Mechanically Ventilated Covid Patients at the Beginning of the USA Pandemic

Introduction This observational study looked at 255 COVID19 patients who required invasive mechanical ventilation (IMV) during the first two months of the US pandemic. Through comprehensive, longitudinal evaluation and new consideration of all the data, we were able to better describe and...
www.medrxiv.org www.medrxiv.org

Here's a fairly comprehensive list of HCQ/covid studies to date. It also includes links to other drug therapy studies. Enjoy.

c19early.com

COVID-19 early treatment: real-time analysis of 1,521 studies

COVID-19 early treatment: real-time analysis of 1,521 studies
c19early.com c19early.com
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Ok. Maybe your not that vested in the Science world but the first two words in the first one are "Observational Study" meaning not a double blind study. When you have double blind studies available (and there are) the observational studies lose their value. The next set of words in the title are "On 255 Mechanically Ventilated COVID Patients". Since this study was done on mechanically ventilated patients, they were definitely in the hospital. A wise man told me just yesterday
Ekklesian said:
That's right. It's got to be administered early. Once they're hospitalized it's too late.
Click to expand...

So you referenced a study you disagree with. It appears the study you cite as your "evidence" we both agree that it's conclusion is not accurate.
 
Norefund said:
....and apparently the hardcore Trump supporters are actually more committed to anti-vaxx.....
Trump gets booed in Alabama
Click to expand...
Its almost cult like with some of the anti-vax crowd. I understand people who may be hesitant based on potential LT effects. The true anti-vax crowd, though, pretends there is mountains of evidence to support hydroxychloroquine as this miracle cure. You can see by Ekklesian's feeble attempts to provide evidence he's even willing to cite observational studies that contradict his own statements. Even the observational studies that showed some benefit from Hydroxychoroquine were far from a miracle cure. Ironically there are a few treatments/medications that seem to have some positive effects in treating COVID-not sure why the anti vax crowd has chosen Hydroxy as their one and only miracle cure.
 
Alright Ekklesian do want it in the right or left arm?
 
tmjbog said:
Its almost cult like with some of the anti-vax crowd. I understand people who may be hesitant based on potential LT effects. The true anti-vax crowd, though, pretends there is mountains of evidence to support hydroxychloroquine as this miracle cure. You can see by Ekklesian's feeble attempts to provide evidence he's even willing to cite observational studies that contradict his own statements. Even the observational studies that showed some benefit from Hydroxychoroquine were far from a miracle cure. Ironically there are a few treatments/medications that seem to have some positive effects in treating COVID-not sure why the anti vax crowd has chosen Hydroxy as their one and only miracle cure.
Click to expand...
Ivermectin seems to be number 2 with a bullet.
It's really phenomenal how we saw the Covid deniers morph into the anti-Covid Vaccine militants.
 
The definitive work proving the COVID Conspiracies is "New Age Disease and Vaccinations" by noted virologist Gail Riplinger.
 
Hey, you know what's really good for the covids? Vegetable soup!

factcheck.afp.com

Vegetable soup remedy touted by Sri Lankan Facebook users cannot cure Covid-19

A recipe for vegetable soup has been shared by Sri Lankan Facebook users alongside a claim it will "cure" Covid-19 infection within three days. The claim is false: medical professionals said there is no evidence the purported remedy can cure Covid-19.
factcheck.afp.com factcheck.afp.com

All those Indians can't be wrong, right Ekklesian?
 
tmjbog said:
Ok. Maybe your not that vested in the Science world but the first two words in the first one are "Observational Study" meaning not a double blind study. When you have double blind studies available (and there are) the observational studies lose their value. The next set of words in the title are "On 255 Mechanically Ventilated COVID Patients". Since this study was done on mechanically ventilated patients, they were definitely in the hospital. A wise man told me just yesterday
Click to expand...
*sigh* Yes. Your RCT's negate all the real world data. I stand corrected.
tmjbog said:
So you referenced a study you disagree with. It appears the study you cite as your "evidence" we both agree that it's conclusion is not accurate.
Click to expand...

No, there are a myriad of factors to be considered. You've placed your hopes for safety in something that may not really be saving you, and may make you more vulnerable to a break-through infection.
 
Ekklesian said:
"Multiple studies provide data that hydroxychloroquine (brand name: Plaquenil) does not provide a medical benefit for hospitalized patients with COVID-19."
That's right. It's got to be administered early. Once they're hospitalized it's too late.
Click to expand...
Ekklesian said:
Here. Go argue with these guys.

www.medrxiv.org

Observational Study on 255 Mechanically Ventilated Covid Patients at the Beginning of the USA Pandemic

Introduction This observational study looked at 255 COVID19 patients who required invasive mechanical ventilation (IMV) during the first two months of the US pandemic. Through comprehensive, longitudinal evaluation and new consideration of all the data, we were able to better describe and...
www.medrxiv.org www.medrxiv.org
Click to expand...

So again were you you wrong when you stated "Once they're hospitalized it's too late" or is the study that you cited wrong that claimed hydroxychoroquine worked on ventilated patients in the hospital? Claiming "there are a myriad of factors to be considered" does not explain your contradiction. One of those factors, though, may just be why do the double blind studies not support your super drug?
I do like your "real world" data statement. Do you know how much "real world" data you could get from those convinced that essential oils will cure just about every ailment. I once did some contract work for a lady who ran a natural health clinic. Claimed she had not been sick in 30 years all because of alkaline water and essential oils. That's a neat little story but I would not put her "real world" data in the same category as a double blind study.
 
tmjbog said:
Its almost cult like with some of the anti-vax crowd. I understand people who may be hesitant based on potential LT effects. The true anti-vax crowd, though, pretends there is mountains of evidence to support hydroxychloroquine as this miracle cure. You can see by Ekklesian's feeble attempts to provide evidence he's even willing to cite observational studies that contradict his own statements. Even the observational studies that showed some benefit from Hydroxychoroquine were far from a miracle cure. Ironically there are a few treatments/medications that seem to have some positive effects in treating COVID-not sure why the anti vax crowd has chosen Hydroxy as their one and only miracle cure.
Click to expand...
You can't lump me in with those who tout HCQ as a "miracle." Many physicians report a lot of success with it and Real World Data (RWE in scientific literature in case you're interested), support them. **RWE** It's a thing. Learn about it. (y) I am against the censorship of the independent doctors that have spoken out about it.

You also can't call me an anti-vaxxer. I've received many an ethical jab . Ethics isn't even part of my decision not to get the mRNA shot. I've already had my bout with covid. I've acquired natural immunity, and the jury is still out on it, despite the FDA rubber stamp. The thing for me is, that this type of vaccination in other SARS research has resulted in increased susceptibility to variants in animal trials.

However, ethics will play a part if these become mandated. Even the J&J shot, which is a true vaccine. But fetal tissue from aborted babies was used in the development of all the covid jabs. To me there is no difference between benefitting from the holocaust of murdered children and receiving a heart from a victim of human experimentation, or even killed and robbed of his heart for me. So I have thinking to do on those aspects.

I don't think it's the "mark of the beast." The Mark in my thinking is symbolic of either yielding one's work or mind to anti-christ. I don't think it's literal, though the marking of slaves and prisoners has been a common practice of oppressors from time immemorial. But the most casual, informed observer has to be able to see something less than on the up and up in the handling of this pandemic, the censorship, and the totalitarian call for vax mandates.

There's no question money is at the root. Even if the Beast of Revelation proves to be an historical one-world ruler (a view I do not espouse), the love for money is still at the root of all evil.

Anyway, your painting of everyone that doesn't rally to the vax sites as anti-vaxxers is just a gross deprecation stemming from something other than the pursuit of truth.
 
tmjbog said:
So again were you you wrong when you stated "Once they're hospitalized it's too late" or is the study that you cited wrong that claimed hydroxychoroquine worked on ventilated patients in the hospital? Claiming "there are a myriad of factors to be considered" does not explain your contradiction. One of those factors, though, may just be why do the double blind studies not support your super drug?
I do like your "real world" data statement. Do you know how much "real world" data you could get from those convinced that essential oils will cure just about every ailment. I once did some contract work for a lady who ran a natural health clinic. Claimed she had not been sick in 30 years all because of alkaline water and essential oils. That's a neat little story but I would not put her "real world" data in the same category as a double blind study.
Click to expand...
STAHHHP.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Real-world Evidence versus Randomized Controlled Trial: Clinical Research Based on Electronic Medical Records

Real-world evidence (RWE) and randomized control trial (RCT) data are considered mutually complementary. However, compared with RCT, the outcomes of RWE continue to be assigned lower credibility. It must be emphasized that RWE research is a real-world ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
Ransom said:
Hey, you know what's really good for the covids? Vegetable soup!

factcheck.afp.com

Vegetable soup remedy touted by Sri Lankan Facebook users cannot cure Covid-19

A recipe for vegetable soup has been shared by Sri Lankan Facebook users alongside a claim it will "cure" Covid-19 infection within three days. The claim is false: medical professionals said there is no evidence the purported remedy can cure Covid-19.
factcheck.afp.com factcheck.afp.com

All those Indians can't be wrong, right Ekklesian?
Click to expand...
LOL. Not sure 'bout covid, but might cure your constipation. :ROFLMAO:

Anything about hangovers? 🤔
 
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Ekklesian said:
STAHHHP.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Real-world Evidence versus Randomized Controlled Trial: Clinical Research Based on Electronic Medical Records

Real-world evidence (RWE) and randomized control trial (RCT) data are considered mutually complementary. However, compared with RCT, the outcomes of RWE continue to be assigned lower credibility. It must be emphasized that RWE research is a real-world ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Click to expand...
Well you are at least to the point where I'd hope you get. You seem to acknowledge that the scientific research does not support your miracle cure and acknowledge that anecdotal evidence is all that exists for HCQ. I don't care if a person chooses to take it or a doctor chooses to prescribe it. Just acknowledge that it's not supported by the research-which you seem to have finally done.
 
Ransom said:
Hey, you know what's really good for the covids? Vegetable soup!

factcheck.afp.com

Vegetable soup remedy touted by Sri Lankan Facebook users cannot cure Covid-19

A recipe for vegetable soup has been shared by Sri Lankan Facebook users alongside a claim it will "cure" Covid-19 infection within three days. The claim is false: medical professionals said there is no evidence the purported remedy can cure Covid-19.
factcheck.afp.com factcheck.afp.com

All those Indians can't be wrong, right Ekklesian?
Click to expand...
Well it's on Facebook so we've got some real world evidence to back it up.
 
tmjbog said:
Well you are at least to the point where I'd hope you get. You seem to acknowledge that the scientific research does not support your miracle cure and acknowledge that anecdotal evidence is all that exists for HCQ. I don't care if a person chooses to take it or a doctor chooses to prescribe it. Just acknowledge that it's not supported by the research-which you seem to have finally done.
Click to expand...
It IS supported. You only worried about HCQ when I pointed out that your jab was turning out to be no more effective.

But I will in turn commend you for attempting to find better data for your positions than when we first began to interact. (y)
 
Ekklesian said:
You can't lump me in with those who tout HCQ as a "miracle." Many physicians report a lot of success with it and Real World Data (RWE in scientific literature in case you're interested), support them. **RWE** It's a thing. Learn about it. (y) I am against the censorship of the independent doctors that have spoken out about it.

You also can't call me an anti-vaxxer. I've received many an ethical jab . Ethics isn't even part of my decision not to get the mRNA shot. I've already had my bout with covid. I've acquired natural immunity, and the jury is still out on it, despite the FDA rubber stamp. The thing for me is, that this type of vaccination in other SARS research has resulted in increased susceptibility to variants in animal trials.

However, ethics will play a part if these become mandated. Even the J&J shot, which is a true vaccine. But fetal tissue from aborted babies was used in the development of all the covid jabs. To me there is no difference between benefitting from the holocaust of murdered children and receiving a heart from a victim of human experimentation, or even killed and robbed of his heart for me. So I have thinking to do on those aspects.

I don't think it's the "mark of the beast." The Mark in my thinking is symbolic of either yielding one's work or mind to anti-christ. I don't think it's literal, though the marking of slaves and prisoners has been a common practice of oppressors from time immemorial. But the most casual, informed observer has to be able to see something less than on the up and up in the handling of this pandemic, the censorship, and the totalitarian call for vax mandates.

There's no question money is at the root. Even if the Beast of Revelation proves to be an historical one-world ruler (a view I do not espouse), the love for money is still at the root of all evil.

Anyway, your painting of everyone that doesn't rally to the vax sites as anti-vaxxers is just a gross deprecation stemming from something other than the pursuit of truth.
Click to expand...
Most of the time I use the term anti-vaxxer I'm talking specifically about the COVID vaccine. However, many who oppose the COVID vaccine have been anti vaxxer across the board.

On the abortion issue. There isn't actual fetal tissue in the vaccines. Cells have been grown from the fetus of an abortion from 1973. So the cells are not from the original fetus but have been grown from it in a labratory through many generations. In the Moderna and Pfizer the cells were used in the research & development phase. The J&J they were also used in production and manufacturing phase.
 
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