The 'piling on' of Mark Driscoll!

[Patebald]

But because they were catching so much heat from affiliate churches they decided to hang Mark out to dry in order to save face with their network.

"Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil" (1 Tim. 3:7).

I'm not sure how this applies to Mark's situation. These weren't "outsiders" they were men who've known Mark for years and received his repentance of most of these issues years earlier. A29 was losing support and affiliate churches and had to act. This isn't a guess on my part, by the way.

 

[Ransom]

I'm not sure how this applies to Mark's situation.

What is Driscoll's reputation outside of his own church network?

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I'm not sure how this applies to Mark's situation.

What is Driscoll's reputation outside of his own church network?

What was his reputation outside his church 14 years ago?

I don't think anything has changed with Driscoll, his church or public opinion that wasn't present then. It seems to me to be not an issue or doctrine or morality but simply one of political pressure and power!

 

[Ransom]

I don't think anything has changed with Driscoll, his church or public opinion that wasn't present then. It seems to me to be not an issue or doctrine or morality but simply one of political pressure and power!

The letter to Mars Hill from Acts 29 mentions "countless shots and dozens of fires directly linked to you." It's reductionistic to claim their action is the direct result of one specific issue from 14 years ago.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I don't think anything has changed with Driscoll, his church or public opinion that wasn't present then. It seems to me to be not an issue or doctrine or morality but simply one of political pressure and power!

The letter to Mars Hill from Acts 29 mentions "countless shots and dozens of fires directly linked to you." It's reductionistic to claim their action is the direct result of one specific issue from 14 years ago.

Perhaps not, but that is the issue that is brought up over and over.
Driscoll has done, said or believes nothing now he hasn't in the past.
There is NO current or new controversy, not one.

It is simply a matter of a favorable political climate.
Climate, not conviction.
No skin off my nose, but that is the truth.....even Pate can see it! 

 

[T-Bone]

Maybe they don't feel they need him anymore...so they can kill the "cash cow".  I have said for years the someone needed to reign in Driscoll...his crassness did not reflect the Scriptural message.  He was trying to be too hip and cool as so to be popular.  The main problem in many churches and para-church movement today is that they are personality driven and in most cases that personality is not Jesus!

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Maybe they don't feel they need him anymore...so they can kill the "cash cow".  I have said for years the someone needed to reign in Driscoll...his crassness did not reflect the Scriptural message.  He was trying to be too hip and cool as so to be popular.  The main problem in many churches and para-church movement today is that they are personality driven and in most cases that personality is not Jesus!

I think you are right!
For some reason, they don't need Driscoll...or they don't fear repercussion from Driscoll or his allies.
Probably both.

But it isn't out of some moral or spiritual outrage!

 

[Patebald]

I'm not sure how this applies to Mark's situation.

What is Driscoll's reputation outside of his own church network?

It's varies. But again... These accusations that A29 are referring to aren't being brought against him by outsiders. That is actually the point of this whole subject and A29's move to remove him

 

[Patebald]

I'm not sure how this applies to Mark's situation.

What is Driscoll's reputation outside of his own church network?

What was his reputation outside his church 14 years ago?

I don't think anything has changed with Driscoll, his church or public opinion that wasn't present then. It seems to me to be not an issue or doctrine or morality but simply one of political pressure and power!

Yes. Exactly

 

[T-Bone]

Maybe they don't feel they need him anymore...so they can kill the "cash cow".  I have said for years the someone needed to reign in Driscoll...his crassness did not reflect the Scriptural message.  He was trying to be too hip and cool as so to be popular.  The main problem in many churches and para-church movement today is that they are personality driven and in most cases that personality is not Jesus!

I think you are right!
For some reason, they don't need Driscoll...or they don't fear repercussion from Driscoll or his allies.
Probably both.

But it isn't out of some moral or spiritual outrage!

Oh I agree completely...if it were really from a biblically correct approach because of a spiritual or moral problem...they would have gone to him personally and they would not have waited so many years to do so.  Reminds me of Revelation 17...when the Beast was through with the Woman...he casts her aside and treats her like a cheap harlot, but not while she was still useful to him!

 

[Patebald]

The letter to Mars Hill from Acts 29 mentions "countless shots and dozens of fires directly linked to you." It's reductionistic to claim their action is the direct result of one specific issue from 14 years ago.

These "countless shots" are internal within the A29 Network and nothing more. Chandler and Patrick made a premature move here and I think they are going to regret it. Mars Hill has already called them out for their methods & timing in making this decision.

 

[Ransom]

Perhaps not, but that is the issue that is brought up over and over.

And before that, it was his spending $200,000 to manipulate the bestseller lists.
And before that, it was plagiarism.
And before that, it was allegations of abuse of power.
And before that, it was pornographic "prophetic" visions.
And before that, it was his crass language in the pulpit.

There is NO current or new controversy, not one.

Exactly. There is no current controversy. There is a long series of controversies. My reading of Acts 29 is that they have reached the end of their patience.

These "countless shots" are internal within the A29 Network and nothing more.

The expulsion of Mars Hill Church from the Acts 29 Network is internal, nothing more.

 

[ddgently]

Perhaps not, but that is the issue that is brought up over and over.

And before that, it was his spending $200,000 to manipulate the bestseller lists.
And before that, it was plagiarism.
And before that, it was allegations of abuse of power.
And before that, it was pornographic "prophetic" visions.
And before that, it was his crass language in the pulpit.

There is NO current or new controversy, not one.

Exactly. There is no current controversy. There is a long series of controversies. My reading of Acts 29 is that they have reached the end of their patience.

These "countless shots" are internal within the A29 Network and nothing more.

The expulsion of Mars Hill Church from the Acts 29 Network is internal, nothing more.

^^^^ this. Too much abuse/misbehavior for too long, and now the cracks are becoming fissures.

Why are so many (Tarheel, T-bone) quick to "not support Driscoll" but at the same time question the motivation of Acts29, et al.?

 

[rsc2a]

"We don't like many of his positions,  but the most important thing is that the church owner pastor is having his authority questioned."

 

[T-Bone]

Perhaps not, but that is the issue that is brought up over and over.

And before that, it was his spending $200,000 to manipulate the bestseller lists.
And before that, it was plagiarism.
And before that, it was allegations of abuse of power.
And before that, it was pornographic "prophetic" visions.
And before that, it was his crass language in the pulpit.

There is NO current or new controversy, not one.

Exactly. There is no current controversy. There is a long series of controversies. My reading of Acts 29 is that they have reached the end of their patience.

These "countless shots" are internal within the A29 Network and nothing more.

The expulsion of Mars Hill Church from the Acts 29 Network is internal, nothing more.

^^^^ this. Too much abuse/misbehavior for too long, and now the cracks are becoming fissures.

Why are so many (Tarheel, T-bone) quick to "not support Driscoll" but at the same time question the motivation of Acts29, et al.?

Can't speak for Tarheel...but as for me I have made it clear I have never, ever supported Driscoll...for years I have comment and lamented the crass approach of the emergent churches.  Driscoll has made statements that are indecent in any crowd...he has built his ministry on his personality, like too many others.  As for Acts29, my comments relate to the suspected timing of their actions, when for the same announced reasons they could have done what they did long ago.  Their timing and method are suspect in my view...seen too much of this in the past.  Hope that clarifies my view.

 

[ddgently]

Can't speak for Tarheel...but as for me I have made it clear I have never, ever supported Driscoll...for years I have comment and lamented the crass approach of the emergent churches.  Driscoll has made statements that are indecent in any crowd...he has built his ministry on his personality, like too many others.  As for Acts29, my comments relate to the suspected timing of their actions, when for the same announced reasons they could have done what they did long ago.  Their timing and method are suspect in my view...seen too much of this in the past.  Hope that clarifies my view.

I can see that. Can't say I share your suspicion at this point, but I can see how the timing looks . . . convenient on Acts29's part.

 

[Bob H]

Acts29 ???????

 

[T-Bone]

Can't speak for Tarheel...but as for me I have made it clear I have never, ever supported Driscoll...for years I have comment and lamented the crass approach of the emergent churches.  Driscoll has made statements that are indecent in any crowd...he has built his ministry on his personality, like too many others.  As for Acts29, my comments relate to the suspected timing of their actions, when for the same announced reasons they could have done what they did long ago.  Their timing and method are suspect in my view...seen too much of this in the past.  Hope that clarifies my view.

I can see that. Can't say I share your suspicion at this point, but I can see how the timing looks . . . convenient on Acts29's part.

It is probably part of my nature to be suspicious...tied to seeing too many things like this! 

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

I never heard of Mark Driscoll before this thread.  In fact, I rarely know about anyone who ends up being the subject of a thread on here. 

I have no interest in getting to know about these people.  And I think I'm better off for it. 

 

[AmazedbyGrace]

Perhaps not, but that is the issue that is brought up over and over.

And before that, it was his spending $200,000 to manipulate the bestseller lists.
And before that, it was plagiarism.
And before that, it was allegations of abuse of power.
And before that, it was pornographic "prophetic" visions.
And before that, it was his crass language in the pulpit.

There is NO current or new controversy, not one.

Exactly. There is no current controversy. There is a long series of controversies. My reading of Acts 29 is that they have reached the end of their patience.

These "countless shots" are internal within the A29 Network and nothing more.

The expulsion of Mars Hill Church from the Acts 29 Network is internal, nothing more.

Yes, this.
WTG Acts 29