The Preservation of Grape Juice

[rsc2a]

Well, you wouldn't want to drag anyone down to your level now, would you?

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Best way to preserve grape juice is to let it form alcohol out of the sugar present and then when the process is complete the alcohol will preserve the grape juice indefinitely and can even be consumed hundreds of years into the future with no harmful effects. When the process is complete all of the corruption should be gone as it is replaced by the preservative and cleansing agent alcohol.

Like I said, I have made wine, successfully.
I have also made some nasty vinegarry disgusting sludge.
If you just leave it be, you won't get anything drinkable.

Earnestly Contend

That must explain why a 1961 Chateau Margaux fetches about $4,000.   

 

[rsc2a]

My brother-in-law actually managed a vineyard/winery for years, even won several awards for some of his wines. The wine he prefers doesn't have additional sugar added, just what is naturally in the grapes. As a total wine snob, he's also quite dismissive of winemakers who add feel the need to add additional sugar to their wine.

 

[rsc2a]

https://winemakermag.com/758-wild-yeast-the-pros-and-cons-of-spontaneous-fermentation

"The fact is cultured yeasts have only been in the winemaking picture within the last century. For thousands of years previously, all wine was fermented on wild (indigenous) yeast. Some old world wineries in France still ferment high-end wines on the local yeast."

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Why can't we, for a few minutes each Lord's Supper ceremony, abstain from yeast as well?

I do abstain from yeast.  Here are the three most common ways wine stops fermenting, all of which end up with no yeast:

1. The yeast eats all the sugar and then dies from lack of "food".  This produces a very dry wine.  (Depending on your goal, some people add sugar later so the wine won't be so dry.

2. The yeast produces enough alcohol that the alcohol kills it.  If sugar is left over, then it's not a dry wine. 

3. People add something (usually sulfur dioxide) to kill off the yeast and stop fermentation. 

Bottle the wine and keep it in relatively low temperatures (55-69 degrees f is recommended), and the alcohol is enough of a preservative that the wine will not spoil for decades. 

The average temperature in any cave ranges between 50 and 70 degrees f, depending on the location (70 is average for Texas).  Perfect for storing wine without AC or other artificial cooling. 

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Like I said, I have made wine, successfully.
I have also made some nasty vinegarry disgusting sludge.
If you just leave it be, you won't get anything drinkable.

Earnestly Contend

You risk wine turning to vinegar as soon as you expose it to oxygen.  Your wine is turning into vinegar because it doesn't have a high enough alcohol content to prevent the vinegar-making bacteria from growing, and you're storing it at too high a temperature so that the vinegar-making bacteria can grow. 

Vinegar-making bacteria is not the same thing as the yeast that made the wine.  This is a bacteria that eats alcohol and produces acid.

If you used sulfur dioxide to stop the fermentation process, that will also stop the vinegar bacteria from growing, too.  But sulfur dioxide gives people headaches when they drink wine, so I don't recommend it.

 

[prophet]

Like I said, I have made wine, successfully.
I have also made some nasty vinegarry disgusting sludge.
If you just leave it be, you won't get anything drinkable.

Earnestly Contend

You risk wine turning to vinegar as soon as you expose it to oxygen.  Your wine is turning into vinegar because it doesn't have a high enough alcohol content to prevent the vinegar-making bacteria from growing, and you're storing it at too high a temperature so that the vinegar-making bacteria can grow. 

Vinegar-making bacteria is not the same thing as the yeast that made the wine.  This is a bacteria that eats alcohol and produces acid.

If you used sulfur dioxide to stop the fermentation process, that will also stop the vinegar bacteria from growing, too.  But sulfur dioxide gives people headaches when they drink wine, so I don't recommend it.

And this was my point.

Both the yeast and bacteria are present in soil, air, etc.

If the wine isnt taken through a series of proper steps, including temp. reg., it will spoil.

So, leaving juice untreated, doesn't turn it into wine.

This knowledge has been available for 6,000 years.

Earnestly Contend

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Like I said, I have made wine, successfully.
I have also made some nasty vinegarry disgusting sludge.
If you just leave it be, you won't get anything drinkable.

Earnestly Contend

You risk wine turning to vinegar as soon as you expose it to oxygen.  Your wine is turning into vinegar because it doesn't have a high enough alcohol content to prevent the vinegar-making bacteria from growing, and you're storing it at too high a temperature so that the vinegar-making bacteria can grow. 

Vinegar-making bacteria is not the same thing as the yeast that made the wine.  This is a bacteria that eats alcohol and produces acid.

If you used sulfur dioxide to stop the fermentation process, that will also stop the vinegar bacteria from growing, too.  But sulfur dioxide gives people headaches when they drink wine, so I don't recommend it.

And this was my point.

Both the yeast and bacteria are present in soil, air, etc.

If the wine isnt taken through a series of proper steps, including temp. reg., it will spoil.

So, leaving juice untreated, doesn't turn it into wine.

This knowledge has been available for 6,000 years.

Earnestly Contend

Leaving juice untreated does turn it into wine.  And when it's wine, it is no longer contaminated by yeast. 

But once it's wine, you need to store it properly or it will turn to vinegar if there's too little alcohol in the wine.  The bacteria eats alcohol, but if there's too much alcohol, it won't grow.  You can prevent it turning to vinegar simply by capping the bottle and storing it at the right temperature.

This knowledge has been available for 6,000 years.

Which is why there's no question that they had alcoholic wine.  It was easy to make, and easy to store. 

 

[prophet]

Like I said, I have made wine, successfully.
I have also made some nasty vinegarry disgusting sludge.
If you just leave it be, you won't get anything drinkable.

Earnestly Contend

You risk wine turning to vinegar as soon as you expose it to oxygen.  Your wine is turning into vinegar because it doesn't have a high enough alcohol content to prevent the vinegar-making bacteria from growing, and you're storing it at too high a temperature so that the vinegar-making bacteria can grow. 

Vinegar-making bacteria is not the same thing as the yeast that made the wine.  This is a bacteria that eats alcohol and produces acid.

If you used sulfur dioxide to stop the fermentation process, that will also stop the vinegar bacteria from growing, too.  But sulfur dioxide gives people headaches when they drink wine, so I don't recommend it.

And this was my point.

Both the yeast and bacteria are present in soil, air, etc.

If the wine isnt taken through a series of proper steps, including temp. reg., it will spoil.

So, leaving juice untreated, doesn't turn it into wine.

This knowledge has been available for 6,000 years.

Earnestly Contend

Leaving juice untreated does turn it into wine.  And when it's wine, it is no longer contaminated by yeast. 

But once it's wine, you need to store it properly or it will turn to vinegar if there's too little alcohol in the wine.  The bacteria eats alcohol, but if there's too much alcohol, it won't grow.  You can prevent it turning to vinegar simply by capping the bottle and storing it at the right temperature.

This knowledge has been available for 6,000 years.

Which is why there's no question that they had alcoholic wine.  It was easy to make, and easy to store.

Whoever said they didn't have alcoholic wine?


Earnestly Contend