The size of a community of faith

[Ransom]

So I take it you have never had the Spirit of God minister to you during your own teaching or preaching?

What if I did? If I was alone, I was never foolish enough to call it "church," which for some inscrutable reason you seem hell-bent on redefining.

 

[rsc2a]

The size of a church is not designated in the Bible.
There are large churches, small churches...there are no one person churches.

The effectiveness of the church and it's size, in my experience, depends greatly on the under-shepherd(s0 of that church.
Some can effectively lead and organize thousands, hundreds, dozens....
Others can effectively lead and organize those who fit around a kitchen table.

Honestly curious. How can there be intimacy,  accountability,  and effective discipline in a group of hundreds,  especially thousands?

From what I have experienced in larger churches,  the functioning church is actually at the Sunday school / home group level,  and corporate meeting is basically an add-on.  I don't have a problem with this so long as those people acknowledge this us happening.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

The size of a church is not designated in the Bible.
There are large churches, small churches...there are no one person churches.

The effectiveness of the church and it's size, in my experience, depends greatly on the under-shepherd(s0 of that church.
Some can effectively lead and organize thousands, hundreds, dozens....
Others can effectively lead and organize those who fit around a kitchen table.

Honestly curious. How can there be intimacy,  accountability,  and effective discipline in a group of hundreds,  especially thousands?

From what I have experienced in larger churches,  the functioning church is actually at the Sunday school / home group level,  and corporate meeting is basically an add-on. 

Yeah, but the megachurch corporate meeting add-on is where the big bucks are made.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

The size of a church is not designated in the Bible.
There are large churches, small churches...there are no one person churches.

The effectiveness of the church and it's size, in my experience, depends greatly on the under-shepherd(s0 of that church.
Some can effectively lead and organize thousands, hundreds, dozens....
Others can effectively lead and organize those who fit around a kitchen table.

Honestly curious. How can there be intimacy,  accountability,  and effective discipline in a group of hundreds,  especially thousands?

From what I have experienced in larger churches,  the functioning church is actually at the Sunday school / home group level,  and corporate meeting is basically an add-on.  I don't have a problem with this so long as those people acknowledge this us happening.

Define intimacy, accountability and effective discipline.

Of course, every church has some type of small group ministry...to enhance fellowship, encouragement and support.
Corporate/public worship is not an 'add on'....at least not in a Biblical church model.

Now, if your leadership cannot expedite this among his 'flock' then the church will lose people until it's down to what the under-shepherd can handle...this happens regularly.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

The size of a church is not designated in the Bible.
There are large churches, small churches...there are no one person churches.

The effectiveness of the church and it's size, in my experience, depends greatly on the under-shepherd(s0 of that church.
Some can effectively lead and organize thousands, hundreds, dozens....
Others can effectively lead and organize those who fit around a kitchen table.

Honestly curious. How can there be intimacy,  accountability,  and effective discipline in a group of hundreds,  especially thousands?

From what I have experienced in larger churches,  the functioning church is actually at the Sunday school / home group level,  and corporate meeting is basically an add-on. 

Yeah, but the megachurch corporate meeting add-on is where the big bucks are made.

Big bucks are made?
What does that even mean?

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

There is a principle of leadership at work...in any endeavor that requires organization and structure.

Give a leader with a 'leadership quotient' of 10 a group of fifty people and eventually he'll have 10 in his group.
Give a leader with a 'leadership quotient' of 100 a group of ten and eventually he'll have 100 in his group.

In my experience, this principle is in operation everywhere, all of the time.

 

[subllibrm]

If big is bad why did God start out with so many people right from the get go? Peter started the first mega-church in one day. How did they minister intimately and disciple well?

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

If big is bad why did God start out with so many people right from the get go? Peter started the first mega-church in one day. How did they minister intimately and disciple well?

I think you're confusing church (the called out) with the (subset) church at (some assembly). 

 

[prophet]

The size of a church is not designated in the Bible.
There are large churches, small churches...there are no one person churches.

The effectiveness of the church and it's size, in my experience, depends greatly on the under-shepherd(s0 of that church.
Some can effectively lead and organize thousands, hundreds, dozens....
Others can effectively lead and organize those who fit around a kitchen table.

Honestly curious. How can there be intimacy,  accountability,  and effective discipline in a group of hundreds,  especially thousands?

From what I have experienced in larger churches,  the functioning church is actually at the Sunday school / home group level,  and corporate meeting is basically an add-on. 

Yeah, but the megachurch corporate meeting add-on is where the big bucks are made.

Big bucks are made?
What does that even mean?

Oh, I don't know, maybe the $250,000 offfice carpet Jack Schaap had installed in his 4th office....

 

[Mathew Ward]

So I take it you have never had the Spirit of God minister to you during your own teaching or preaching?

What if I did? If I was alone, I was never foolish enough to call it "church," which for some inscrutable reason you seem hell-bent on redefining.

I'm not hell-bent on redefining anything. The question was what was the smallest number to be considered a church. I said one, you have become hell-bent on redefining it while ignoring the facts when the church started it didn't meet your definition.

 

[Mathew Ward]

Honestly curious. How can there be intimacy,  accountability,  and effective discipline in a group of hundreds,  especially thousands?

Seems like in Acts they were able to do this with thousands.

 

[Ransom]

The question was what was the smallest number to be considered a church. I said one, you have become hell-bent on redefining it while ignoring the facts when the church started it didn't meet your definition.

I'm not "redefining" anything. "Church" is translated from a normal Greek word that means "assembly." One person, by definition, is not an assembly. Therefore, by definition, one person is not a church.

Want to prove me wrong? Show me where my definitions are wrong.

 

[sword]

To be a called out assembly by definition would require more than 1 person.


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/assemble

as·sem·ble
verb \ə-ˈsem-bəl\

: to collect (things) or gather (people) into one place or group

: to meet together in one place

: to connect or put together the parts of (something, such as a toy or machine)
as·sem·bled as·sem·bling
Full Definition of ASSEMBLE
transitive verb
1
:  to bring together (as in a particular place or for a particular purpose)
2
:  to fit together the parts of

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

To be a called out assembly by definition would require more than 1 person.


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/assemble

as·sem·ble
verb \ə-ˈsem-bəl\

: to collect (things) or gather (people) into one place or group

: to meet together in one place

: to connect or put together the parts of (something, such as a toy or machine)
as·sem·bled as·sem·bling
Full Definition of ASSEMBLE
transitive verb
1
:  to bring together (as in a particular place or for a particular purpose)
2
:  to fit together the parts of

Nah, it's a Zen thing.  The sound of one person assembling. 

 

[Mathew Ward]

The question was what was the smallest number to be considered a church. I said one, you have become hell-bent on redefining it while ignoring the facts when the church started it didn't meet your definition.

I'm not "redefining" anything. "Church" is translated from a normal Greek word that means "assembly." One person, by definition, is not an assembly. Therefore, by definition, one person is not a church.

Want to prove me wrong? Show me where my definitions are wrong.

So who are we meeting together with in this one place?

If we are meeting together with the Lord (head of the church) then I wonder if He would meet with 1 person?

I think He would meet with 1 person.

If the church is the habitation of God through the Spirit, I think 1 saved person again would meet the criteria.

Is one the intended number for a church? No.


When Christ started the church there were no deacons, there were there no Elders and He hadn't given instruction on church discipline (all things you said a church had to have). By your definition it was not a church, yet Scriptures teach otherwise.

 

[subllibrm]

If big is bad why did God start out with so many people right from the get go? Peter started the first mega-church in one day. How did they minister intimately and disciple well?

I think you're confusing church (the called out) with the (subset) church at (some assembly).

No, I am challenging the point rsc2a made about intimate discipleship and such.

Honestly curious. How can there be intimacy,  accountability,  and effective discipline in a group of hundreds,  especially thousands?

Thousands in one day. It met none of the criteria he spelled out.


Called out BTW not just the "congregation". They were "added to the church" so you can put your hobby horse back in the stable for a well deserved rest.

 

[sword]

Honestly curious. How can there be intimacy,  accountability,  and effective discipline in a group of hundreds,  especially thousands?

Seems like in Acts they were able to do this with thousands.

Back in the day the 1st Armor Division had over 12,000 soldiers. I would say they had accountability, effective discipline & if not intimacy then clearly loyalty & brotherhood.

Large churches work the same way as large armies. Responsibilities & functions are divided into sub groups. Each person has a function, none more important than the next.

 

[rsc2a]

My brother got married last year.  Funny thing: his wife was instantly added to our family, but it is taking time for the same closeness to develop that my wife shares with them.

I never knew the  family of God got to ignore all that.

 

[Ransom]

So who are we meeting together with in this one place?

I repeat: Want to prove me wrong? Prove my definitions are wrong.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

The size of a church is not designated in the Bible.
There are large churches, small churches...there are no one person churches.

The effectiveness of the church and it's size, in my experience, depends greatly on the under-shepherd(s0 of that church.
Some can effectively lead and organize thousands, hundreds, dozens....
Others can effectively lead and organize those who fit around a kitchen table.

Honestly curious. How can there be intimacy,  accountability,  and effective discipline in a group of hundreds,  especially thousands?

From what I have experienced in larger churches,  the functioning church is actually at the Sunday school / home group level,  and corporate meeting is basically an add-on. 

Yeah, but the megachurch corporate meeting add-on is where the big bucks are made.

Big bucks are made?
What does that even mean?

Oh, I don't know, maybe the $250,000 offfice carpet Jack Schaap had installed in his 4th office....

So, pee, you and mater believe that any church which receives an offering in a corporate,/public worship service is the moral and spiritual equivalent to Schaap and FBH under his leadership?