The State of the Church.

[Tarheel Baptist]

The state of The Church is sometimes hard to determine because of differing spins on church health statistics.
According to Lifeway Research:
Churches are still recovering from pre-pandemic attendance losses.

• On average, churches are at 85% of their pre-pandemic attendance level.
• Because of reduced attendance rates, 68% of churches have congregations of fewer than 100 people, including 31% who have fewer than 50.
• Smaller churches were more likely to report being at or near their previous attendance rates.

I currently work with our local Southern Baptist Association as a ‘consultant’ and have been surprised by the sheer number of struggling churches. If the past 2 years, I have helped 2 churches with small, older congregations to be ‘adopted’ by church plants with thriving, mostly younger families who did not have a regular space in which to meet. The second one just voted to do so last Sunday. Practically speaking, it’s a no brainer…one church has buildings but no people and the other has people but no buildings. However (as most of us can imagine), it is usually extremely difficult and painful for the smaller group to let go.

What is your experience, church wise?
Is your church large or small? The average SBC congregation is around 85, the average size in the US is 65.
Is your church healthy, growing?
Is your church’s average demographic old or young?
Do you have kids/student ministries?

By these metrics, is your church healthy?
Are there other metrics you think are more or as important?
Why or why not?

 

[abcaines]

Actually, our church has experienced modest growth over the past five years.

Not that numbers in and of themselves are an indication of health, but the past two years have been a particular blessing as we've had several younger people "join" (CCs don't maintain formal membership rolls). Many of our newcomers have gotten active within the ministry. Some have come with broken lives... PTSD, widowhood, health issues, etc... Sunday attendance is only a fraction of the lives we're touching. Our lady's group is actively ministering to several who don't attend on Sunday.

 

[Baptist Renegade]

Our church is predominantly Filipino so this would have to be factored into the demographics. In my opinion, we seem to be doing quite well numerically. They often come initially out of a sense of "connection" with their culture and a feeling of community but often stay and are converted due to the fact that we try to be faithful to the gospel and the authority of the scriptures. We are currently a little over 100 and are currently looking at the possibility of a "building program" in order to accommodate this growth. I am 62 and currently teach the adult sunday school class. I would say that over half of the church is over 40 but there is a good size crowd of younger adults (including my kids and their spouses) and our youth group and childrens ministries seem to be growing - all reasons why we need additional space for sunday school classes, Etc.

We also have a separate Indonesian Baptist congregation who utilizes our facilities later in the afternoon. They have their own pastors, deacons, and so forth.

I would say that the "purging" that occurred as a result of Covid may be a good thing? I know it can be heartbreaking from a pastoral standpoint but 1 Jn 2:19 is very much a reality and will cause the leadership to focus on the things that truly matter?

 

[Ransom]

What is your experience, church wise?
Is your church large or small? The average SBC congregation is around 85, the average size in the US is 65.

At last count I heard, we're around 2,500 people, which counts as a megachurch in Canada, and I beleive we might be the largest evangelical church in the city, unless one or two of the local Pentecostal megachurches are bigger. I'm sure my number is out of date (see below).

Is your church healthy, growing?

Yes. We've outgrown our building in its current state; we made a move from two to three services several months ago, and we're now looking to expand both the property and the sanctuary to accommodate people and parking.

A lot of that growth came post-COVID; when they lifted the restrictions, I noticed a whole lot of people I'd never seen before. It seems a lot of my acquaintances may have started attending smaller churches closer to home when the pandemic was on, and stayed, and their seats were filled by new people.

Is your church’s average demographic old or young?

Demographically, probably reflective of the population in general. Lots of children, young families, middle-aged people like myself, and seniors. I believe there may still be some charter members (from 1938!).

Do you have kids/student ministries?

Yep. Big and thriving ones: Sunday school for all ages, midweek meetings for high schoolers and young adults, AWANA, and maybe a few other programs.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

At last count I heard, we're around 2,500 people, which counts as a megachurch in Canada, and I beleive we might be the largest evangelical church in the city, unless one or two of the local Pentecostal megachurches are bigger. I'm sure my number is out of date (see below).



Yes. We've outgrown our building in its current state; we made a move from two to three services several months ago, and we're now looking to expand both the property and the sanctuary to accommodate people and parking.

A lot of that growth came post-COVID; when they lifted the restrictions, I noticed a whole lot of people I'd never seen before. It seems a lot of my acquaintances may have started attending smaller churches closer to home when the pandemic was on, and stayed, and their seats were filled by new people.



Demographically, probably reflective of the population in general. Lots of children, young families, middle-aged people like myself, and seniors. I believe there may still be some charter members (from 1938!).



Yep. Big and thriving ones: Sunday school for all ages, midweek meetings for high schoolers and young adults, AWANA, and maybe a few other programs.

Outstanding.
May ‘your tribe’ increase.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Our church is predominantly Filipino so this would have to be factored into the demographics. In my opinion, we seem to be doing quite well numerically. They often come initially out of a sense of "connection" with their culture and a feeling of community but often stay and are converted due to the fact that we try to be faithful to the gospel and the authority of the scriptures. We are currently a little over 100 and are currently looking at the possibility of a "building program" in order to accommodate this growth. I am 62 and currently teach the adult sunday school class. I would say that over half of the church is over 40 but there is a good size crowd of younger adults (including my kids and their spouses) and our youth group and childrens ministries seem to be growing - all reasons why we need additional space for sunday school classes, Etc.

We also have a separate Indonesian Baptist congregation who utilizes our facilities later in the afternoon. They have their own pastors, deacons, and so forth.

I would say that the "purging" that occurred as a result of Covid may be a good thing? I know it can be heartbreaking from a pastoral standpoint but 1 Jn 2:19 is very much a reality and will cause the leadership to focus on the things that truly matter?

Sounds like a healthy church to me.
The sheer number of churches that simply lack any viable children’s or student ministry is sad to me. I also appreciate sharing your buildings…which is a growing trend.

Are you of Filipino descent? Our church has a Spanish language church meeting in our Fellowship Building…as do a number of area churches. We have a very large Hispanic community in our county. We tried outreach to them, but only when we started the Spanish language service did we make inroads. I assume it’s a cultural preference.
I am also participating in an ordination service for a Korean pastor on the 27th. The Lord has provided a way to reach outher cultures without traveling across the globe.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Actually, our church has experienced modest growth over the past five years.

Not that numbers in and of themselves are an indication of health, but the past two years have been a particular blessing as we've had several younger people "join" (CCs don't maintain formal membership rolls). Many of our newcomers have gotten active within the ministry. Some have come with broken lives... PTSD, widowhood, health issues, etc... Sunday attendance is only a fraction of the lives we're touching. Our lady's group is actively ministering to several who don't attend on Sunday.

Numerical growth is usually a result of church health.
Many times unhealthy churches experience numerical growth because growth is their main motivation!

I appreciate the outreach ministries you have, which is a natural part of a believers DNA. The people actually do the real work of the ministry…often outside the church walls.
I am not that familiar with CC but, in my experience, they seem to ‘produce’ healthy churches.

 

[abcaines]

I am not that familiar with CC but, in my experience, they seem to ‘produce’ healthy churches.

Any church/organization that prioritizes the teaching of the Word is going to have some healthy aspects. CCs are like any other organizations that are run by fallible humans. I am where am warts and all.

 

[ALAYMAN]

The state of The Church is sometimes hard to determine because of differing spins on church health statistics.
According to Lifeway Research:
Churches are still recovering from pre-pandemic attendance losses.

• On average, churches are at 85% of their pre-pandemic attendance level.
• Because of reduced attendance rates, 68% of churches have congregations of fewer than 100 people, including 31% who have fewer than 50.
• Smaller churches were more likely to report being at or near their previous attendance rates.

I currently work with our local Southern Baptist Association as a ‘consultant’ and have been surprised by the sheer number of struggling churches. If the past 2 years, I have helped 2 churches with small, older congregations to be ‘adopted’ by church plants with thriving, mostly younger families who did not have a regular space in which to meet. The second one just voted to do so last Sunday. Practically speaking, it’s a no brainer…one church has buildings but no people and the other has people but no buildings. However (as most of us can imagine), it is usually extremely difficult and painful for the smaller group to let go.

What is your experience, church wise?
Is your church large or small? The average SBC congregation is around 85, the average size in the US is 65.
Is your church healthy, growing?
Is your church’s average demographic old or young?
Do you have kids/student ministries?

By these metrics, is your church healthy?
Are there other metrics you think are more or as important?
Why or why not?

The pandemic definitely had detrimental effect on our already small church, about 30 on the average Sunday now (prepandemic numbers 50-60).

Slow growth over the last year and a half since installing a new pastor (3 families added). Very few young (under 40) folk attend regularly. Kids ministry is "junior church", facilitated by bus visitation and a monthly ministry where we get the rank and file membership to gather with them and spend personal time with them.

I'd say our church is in recovery, but still in danger of typical small church problems (aged membership and a few people doing a disproportionate amount of the ministry work).

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Any church/organization that prioritizes the teaching of the Word is going to have some healthy aspects. CCs are like any other organizations that are run by fallible humans. I am where am warts and all.

True.
All of us are where we are warts and all.

 

[Baptist Renegade]

Sounds like a healthy church to me.
The sheer number of churches that simply lack any viable children’s or student ministry is sad to me. I also appreciate sharing your buildings…which is a growing trend.

We are a small and humble congregation trying to be faithful and I am seeing God's hand at work in our congregation as well as in my family. God is good!

Are you of Filipino descent?

I am not. I am a White American male who happens to be married to a Filipina and am basically adopted into a huge Filipino family. I like telling folks that God had called me to be a missionary to the Philippines when I was in the Navy back in the 80s and since I did not go to the Philippines back then, God brought the Philippines to me!

There is a good handful of us "White Guys" ('Canos) in the congregation who are married to Filipino ladies.

Our church has a Spanish language church meeting in our Fellowship Building…as do a number of area churches. We have a very large Hispanic community in our county. We tried outreach to them, but only when we started the Spanish language service did we make inroads. I assume it’s a cultural preference.
I am also participating in an ordination service for a Korean pastor on the 27th. The Lord has provided a way to reach outher cultures without traveling across the globe.

There is a great deal of ethnic diversity in the Greater Houston area and quite a few congregations which are ethnically specific (Korean, Chinese, Vietnamese, Hispanic, Black, etc.). People simply like to be among others from similar cultures who speak their language, and so forth but if a white person said this, he or she would be ostracized as "racist" right? Then again, I guess all the "Cowboy Churches" an "Biker Churches" may cater to the "White" culture? Our church is open and welcoming to all as Filipinos are quite friendly to all. I often joke with our congregation telling them that Filipinos are going to take over the world because the Bible says that the "Meek shall inherit the earth!"

 

[abcaines]

@Baptist Renegade

I'm sure you remember the Filipino CCs at RTC San Diego... They were HILARIOUS!!! I have thoroughly enjoyed the company of Filipino folks whenever I encountered them. I'd love to visit your church especially when they have a fellowship lunch after service!

 

[Baptist Renegade]

@Baptist Renegade

I'm sure you remember the Filipino CCs at RTC San Diego... They were HILARIOUS!!! I have thoroughly enjoyed the company of Filipino folks whenever I encountered them. I'd love to visit your church especially when they have a fellowship lunch after service!

One thing you never wanted to do was tick off a Filipino Chief!

But yeah, its pretty hilarious now hearing them in my head going off on you with their thick Filipino accent!

Actually, if you get my wife upset, it is pretty much the same!!!

You're welcome any time! We usually have some arroz caldo and pancit to enjoy between the preaching service and the Sunday School hour! In addition, it seems to always be someone's birthday so yeah, the Filipinos have adapted to the Baptist "pot luck" culture quite well!

 

[Justice1976]

I'm in the deep south in a "small" metro area. I don't think any of the trad churches (Baptist, Meth, Presby, etc.) are flourishing. Maybe a few, but not the majority.

The only one that is growing is an "ARC" church (are you familiar with the "Association of Related Churches) which in the past 25 years was started in a school gym and now is on probably 15-20 campuses throughout the state. I have been waiting to hear that they over-built financially, but maybe I'm wrong.

They are your typical smoke and light show, jump up and down, rock and roll, light Pentecostal church. I say light, because they really don't like to talk a lot about speaking in tongues, or as some call it, "the prayer language" because they know it turns off a lot of people.

But people are flocking to the place and I think it's unbelievable. I went a few times over a decade ago and I got nothing. Like, ZERO! But thousands in my area are going all the time.

 

[illinoisguy]

Lots of bad press on the Association of Related Churches - see the following:

Lawsuit Association of Related Churches Enabled Pastor Who Allegedly Raped Congregant

The Association of Related Churches is accused of trying to cover up and not doing enough to prevent the alleged sexual abuse of a Florida woman by her pastor.

faithfullymagazine.com

Plant Churches, Get Laid—Examining the Association of Related Churches | The Deconverted Man

March 7, 2022 I’ve been reading up on the Association of Related Churches lately. It’s one of America’s largest church planting organizations. I didn’t realize…

thedeconvertedman.com

Controversial Pastor Continues To Headline Conferences Despite Evidence Of Cult-Like Behavior, Report Says

Mark Driscoll, the founder of the now defunct Mars Hill Church, continues to speak to audiences in evangelical conferences despite accounts of his abusive behavior and mistreatment of other church leaders.

www.christianitydaily.com

"Other speakers joining Driscoll at the marriage conference include pastors of other churches who are associated with Association of Related Churches or ARC, which is known for restoring pastors who were shunned by their churches over sexual immorality or other sin. . . . Other speakers joining Driscoll at the marriage conference include pastors of other churches who are associated with Association of Related Churches or ARC, which is known for restoring pastors who were shunned by their churches over sexual immorality or other sin."

 

[Justice1976]

Lots of bad press on the Association of Related Churches - see the following:

Lawsuit Association of Related Churches Enabled Pastor Who Allegedly Raped Congregant

The Association of Related Churches is accused of trying to cover up and not doing enough to prevent the alleged sexual abuse of a Florida woman by her pastor.

faithfullymagazine.com

Plant Churches, Get Laid—Examining the Association of Related Churches | The Deconverted Man

March 7, 2022 I’ve been reading up on the Association of Related Churches lately. It’s one of America’s largest church planting organizations. I didn’t realize…

thedeconvertedman.com

Controversial Pastor Continues To Headline Conferences Despite Evidence Of Cult-Like Behavior, Report Says

Mark Driscoll, the founder of the now defunct Mars Hill Church, continues to speak to audiences in evangelical conferences despite accounts of his abusive behavior and mistreatment of other church leaders.

www.christianitydaily.com

"Other speakers joining Driscoll at the marriage conference include pastors of other churches who are associated with Association of Related Churches or ARC, which is known for restoring pastors who were shunned by their churches over sexual immorality or other sin. . . . Other speakers joining Driscoll at the marriage conference include pastors of other churches who are associated with Association of Related Churches or ARC, which is known for restoring pastors who were shunned by their churches over sexual immorality or other sin."

I'm very aware of that stuff. But it seems the people who go there don't care.

 

[abcaines]

I'm very aware of that stuff. But it seems the people who go there don't care.

"A time will come when instead of shepherds feeding the sheep, the church will have clowns entertaining the goats!" C.H. Spurgeon

That time is here.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Lots of bad press on the Association of Related Churches - see the following:

Lawsuit Association of Related Churches Enabled Pastor Who Allegedly Raped Congregant

The Association of Related Churches is accused of trying to cover up and not doing enough to prevent the alleged sexual abuse of a Florida woman by her pastor.

faithfullymagazine.com

Plant Churches, Get Laid—Examining the Association of Related Churches | The Deconverted Man

March 7, 2022 I’ve been reading up on the Association of Related Churches lately. It’s one of America’s largest church planting organizations. I didn’t realize…

thedeconvertedman.com

Controversial Pastor Continues To Headline Conferences Despite Evidence Of Cult-Like Behavior, Report Says

Mark Driscoll, the founder of the now defunct Mars Hill Church, continues to speak to audiences in evangelical conferences despite accounts of his abusive behavior and mistreatment of other church leaders.

www.christianitydaily.com

"Other speakers joining Driscoll at the marriage conference include pastors of other churches who are associated with Association of Related Churches or ARC, which is known for restoring pastors who were shunned by their churches over sexual immorality or other sin. . . . Other speakers joining Driscoll at the marriage conference include pastors of other churches who are associated with Association of Related Churches or ARC, which is known for restoring pastors who were shunned by their churches over sexual immorality or other sin."

This garbage, along with the Word of Faith Movement, is another reason the ‘state of the church’* is less than healthy.

* the state of the true church is, of course, always healthy.