The "stumbling block" of Calvinism

[praise_yeshua]

I know this isn't going to be pretty....

Calvinism is one of the largest "stumbling blocks" in existence.

First, let me say that a Calvinist has no idea if he/she is saved or not. Their "faith" is absent any assurance. Nothing "they" do has any affect on their standing with "God". NOTHING. Thus, they can never have any true assurance of faith. This alone is a huge "stumbling" block in Christianity

Second, Calvinism has given rise to what I call the "wait and see" doctrine. They endless "wait" for a moment where they are "overwhelmed" by the irresistible call/will of God.

In all honesty, I can't really say that I have meet more than a handful of Calvinist that actually believe they have experienced such an event. The vast majority are just "hoping" one day it happens.

Third, Calvinism "replaced" the true "stumbling block" laid in Zion. That Rock of "offense". Its really not about what a "freewill" creation with do with "Jesus".... no sir. They preach a sovereignty lacking the true Power of the Cross.

Let the fighting begin....

 

[T-Bone]

Not going to fight...I am not a Calvinist.  But every brother or sister I know who are Calvinist don't fit into your description.  They know they are saved by grace in Christ.  They are not waiting, but walking in the Lord.  They believe in the power of the cross.

But hey, that's just the Calvinist I know.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

For someone to believe that God is absolutely and totally (redundant) sovereign is a 'stumbling block' mystifies me.
As many as were ordained to eternal life believed....by exercising their freewill.
Salvation begins and ends with God.

If you believe that, you'll get no further debate from me.
If you don't believe that....

 

[praise_yeshua]

Not going to fight...I am not a Calvinist.  But every brother or sister I know who are Calvinist don't fit into your description.  They know they are saved by grace in Christ.  They are not waiting, but walking in the Lord.  They believe in the power of the cross.

But hey, that's just the Calvinist I know.

Can you explain to me HOW they know? Simple question.

A Calvinist believes a person can ask God millions of time to save him/her and it will not come unless God has chosen them from Eternity past.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Not going to fight...I am not a Calvinist.  But every brother or sister I know who are Calvinist don't fit into your description.  They know they are saved by grace in Christ.  They are not waiting, but walking in the Lord.  They believe in the power of the cross.

But hey, that's just the Calvinist I know.

Can you explain to me HOW they know? Simple question.

A Calvinist believes a person can ask God millions of time to save him/her and it will not come unless God has chosen them from Eternity past.

It's awfully hard to debate with someone who doesn't even understand the subject at hand.

 

[praise_yeshua]

For someone to believe that God is absolutely and totally (redundant) sovereign is a 'stumbling block' mystifies me.
As many as were ordained to eternal life believed....by exercising their freewill.

This is typically called the "Arminian" view. You know this...

I can start a thread about the "stumbling block of Ariminism"....

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

First, let me say that a Calvinist has no idea if he/she is saved or not. Their "faith" is absent any assurance. Nothing "they" do has any affect on their standing with "God". NOTHING. Thus, they can never have any true assurance of faith. This alone is a huge "stumbling" block in a Christianity

I'm a Calvinist (when used as a generic term for predestination and the sovereignty of God in whom he chooses), and I know I'm saved.  What am I doing wrong?

And if I thought my standing with God (my salvation) depended on something I did, then wouldn't that be a works-based salvation?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Not going to fight...I am not a Calvinist.  But every brother or sister I know who are Calvinist don't fit into your description.  They know they are saved by grace in Christ.  They are not waiting, but walking in the Lord.  They believe in the power of the cross.

But hey, that's just the Calvinist I know.

Can you explain to me HOW they know? Simple question.

A Calvinist believes a person can ask God millions of time to save him/her and it will not come unless God has chosen them from Eternity past.

It's awfully hard to debate with someone who doesn't even understand the subject at hand.

Prove I'm wrong. Don't just say "I don't understand the subject". This is typical "Calvinist" rhetoric.

 

[praise_yeshua]

First, let me say that a Calvinist has no idea if he/she is saved or not. Their "faith" is absent any assurance. Nothing "they" do has any affect on their standing with "God". NOTHING. Thus, they can never have any true assurance of faith. This alone is a huge "stumbling" block in a Christianity

I'm a Calvinist (when used as a generic term for predestination and the sovereignty of God in whom he chooses), and I know I'm saved.  What am I doing wrong?

Tell me how you know you're saved. Let's see if your beliefs stands up the doctrine.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

First, let me say that a Calvinist has no idea if he/she is saved or not. Their "faith" is absent any assurance. Nothing "they" do has any affect on their standing with "God". NOTHING. Thus, they can never have any true assurance of faith. This alone is a huge "stumbling" block in a Christianity

I'm a Calvinist (when used as a generic term for predestination and the sovereignty of God in whom he chooses), and I know I'm saved.  What am I doing wrong?

Tell me how you know you're saved. Let's see if your beliefs stands up the doctrine.

You first.  Tell me how you know you're saved.  Because you made a decision?  I bet the people who said, "Lord, Lord, we prophesied in your name, etc." made a decision, too, and did things that supposedly showed evidence of their salvation.  They thought they were saved by what they did. 

What makes you any different?  How do you know you're not one of them?

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

yeshua: A Calvinist believes a person can ask God millions of time to save him/her and it will not come unless God has chosen them from Eternity past.

TB:It's awfully hard to debate with someone who doesn't even understand the subject at hand.

yeshua: Prove I'm wrong. Don't just say "I don't understand the subject". This is typical "Calvinist" rhetoric.

That is such an ignorant and ridiculous statement that it hardly deserves anything but ridicule.
It is the equivalent of me accusing you of believing God is in heaven wondering and worrying over what man will do next with his 'free will".

 

[praise_yeshua]

First, let me say that a Calvinist has no idea if he/she is saved or not. Their "faith" is absent any assurance. Nothing "they" do has any affect on their standing with "God". NOTHING. Thus, they can never have any true assurance of faith. This alone is a huge "stumbling" block in a Christianity

I'm a Calvinist (when used as a generic term for predestination and the sovereignty of God in whom he chooses), and I know I'm saved.  What am I doing wrong?

Tell me how you know you're saved. Let's see if your beliefs stands up the doctrine.

You first.  Tell me how you know you're saved.  Because you made a decision?  I bet the people who said, "Lord, Lord, we prophesied in your name, etc." made a decision, too, and did things that supposedly showed evidence of their salvation.  They thought they were saved by what they did. 

What makes you any different?  How do you know you're not one of them?

Typical Calvinist.... At least you're true to form....

I asked the question. You answer, and then I will answer. Are you afraid to answer first..... ( I see a "are you" coming )...

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

First, let me say that a Calvinist has no idea if he/she is saved or not. Their "faith" is absent any assurance. Nothing "they" do has any affect on their standing with "God". NOTHING. Thus, they can never have any true assurance of faith. This alone is a huge "stumbling" block in a Christianity

I'm a Calvinist (when used as a generic term for predestination and the sovereignty of God in whom he chooses), and I know I'm saved.  What am I doing wrong?

Tell me how you know you're saved. Let's see if your beliefs stands up the doctrine.

You first.  Tell me how you know you're saved.  Because you made a decision?  I bet the people who said, "Lord, Lord, we prophesied in your name, etc." made a decision, too, and did things that supposedly showed evidence of their salvation.  They thought they were saved by what they did. 

What makes you any different?  How do you know you're not one of them?

Typical Calvinist.... At least you're true to form....

I asked the question. You answer, and then I will answer. Are you afraid to answer first..... ( I see a "are you" coming )...

I am proving the point that there must be something unrelated to your decision that makes you know you're saved.  When you tell me what that is, you will be answering my question for me, because it's the same for both of us.

 

[praise_yeshua]

yeshua: A Calvinist believes a person can ask God millions of time to save him/her and it will not come unless God has chosen them from Eternity past.

TB:It's awfully hard to debate with someone who doesn't even understand the subject at hand.

yeshua: Prove I'm wrong. Don't just say "I don't understand the subject". This is typical "Calvinist" rhetoric.

That is such an ignorant and ridiculous statement that it hardly deserves anything but ridicule.
It is the equivalent of me accusing you of believing God is in heaven wondering and worrying over what man will do next with his 'free will".

Are you considering this "proof". I was looking for some Scriptures..... or maybe a reputable reference.....

Is that too much to ask for?

Generally speaking.... its precept upon precept.... not just the "you don't understand" defense. By the way.... I don't believe God is worried over what someone does with "free will". Hence... the word "free will". Man can do as he pleases with it. That's the very "idea" of "freewill". The very fact you believe there is such a thing proves you're not a Calvinist.

 

[praise_yeshua]

First, let me say that a Calvinist has no idea if he/she is saved or not. Their "faith" is absent any assurance. Nothing "they" do has any affect on their standing with "God". NOTHING. Thus, they can never have any true assurance of faith. This alone is a huge "stumbling" block in a Christianity

I'm a Calvinist (when used as a generic term for predestination and the sovereignty of God in whom he chooses), and I know I'm saved.  What am I doing wrong?

Tell me how you know you're saved. Let's see if your beliefs stands up the doctrine.

You first.  Tell me how you know you're saved.  Because you made a decision?  I bet the people who said, "Lord, Lord, we prophesied in your name, etc." made a decision, too, and did things that supposedly showed evidence of their salvation.  They thought they were saved by what they did. 

What makes you any different?  How do you know you're not one of them?

Typical Calvinist.... At least you're true to form....

I asked the question. You answer, and then I will answer. Are you afraid to answer first..... ( I see a "are you" coming )...

I am proving the point that there must be something unrelated to your decision that makes you know you're saved.  When you tell me what that is, you will be answering my question for me, because it's the same for both of us.

No its not. Not even close. Prove your point and I'll prove mine. Tell me how you determined you're actually saved? You know your system denies such evidence.

Is your defense.... "No one can know"?

 

[T-Bone]

Not going to fight...I am not a Calvinist.  But every brother or sister I know who are Calvinist don't fit into your description.  They know they are saved by grace in Christ.  They are not waiting, but walking in the Lord.  They believe in the power of the cross.

But hey, that's just the Calvinist I know.

Can you explain to me HOW they know? Simple question.

A Calvinist believes a person can ask God millions of time to save him/her and it will not come unless God has chosen them from Eternity past.

They believe the Bible the same way I do.."His Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God".  That they believe that God must chose you from eternity does not equate that they cannot know they are saved. 

God has chosen us, He has called us, He has saved us, He has confirmed our salvation...I hold to this and every Calvinist I know holds to this too.

 

[Ransom]

Calvinism is one of the largest "stumbling blocks" in existence.

Then it's in good company with Jesus.

P.S. Bless your heart.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Calvinism is one of the largest "stumbling blocks" in existence.

Then it's in good company with Jesus.

P.S. Bless your heart.

Herb.... you been hiding as Ransom all this time.....

See my third point. Its "REPLACED".... the TRUE stumbling block.

 

[rsc2a]

"I'll take 'I don't understand Calvinism at all' for $200, Alex."

<~~ not a Calvinist.

 

[Recovering IFB]

Can you explain to me HOW they know? Simple question.

A Calvinist believes a person can ask God millions of time to save him/her and it will not come unless God has chosen them from Eternity past.

It's not asking God a million times, Jesus said all who come to him he would not cast out and all thy come to him are drawn by the Father, who replaces a heart of stone with one of flesh.
How do I know im saved? I heard the Gospel after hearing it many times in my life but one day, I heard it, everything became crystal clear. I once didn't care for God and now I do, I didn't do this on my own.