The Tribe of Dan?

[Ransom]

Dan is missing. Dan shouldn't be missing. Ezekiel didn't remove the tribe of Dan. Revelation does. I'll take Ezekiel. Revelation doesn't pass the test.

Zing! Yeezy wows the crowd by playing a devastating "Proof by Arbitrary Preference."

 

[praise_yeshua]

Dan is missing. Dan shouldn't be missing. Ezekiel didn't remove the tribe of Dan. Revelation does. I'll take Ezekiel. Revelation doesn't pass the test.

Zing! Yeezy wows the crowd by playing a devastating "Proof by Arbitrary Preference."

Its clearly a mistake. You've provided no evidence to prove otherwise.

 

[FSSL]

Go study Codex Sinaiticus a little closer..... since its now your favorite text!!

I wouldn't call it my favorite text. But, according to our discussions, apparently I am the only one who knows how to use it.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Isn't the point obvious? Are you really that dumb?

Whomever wrote "Revelation" made a mistake.

I don't believe you, primarily because being an angry kook is not a substitute for actual arguments.

Dan is missing. Dan shouldn't be missing. Ezekiel didn't remove the tribe of Dan. Revelation does. I'll take Ezekiel. Revelation doesn't pass the test.

Dan isn't missing. Though it is not named, it is listed:

It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel.

Or is Paul the missing tribe?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Isn't the point obvious? Are you really that dumb?

Whomever wrote "Revelation" made a mistake.

I don't believe you, primarily because being an angry kook is not a substitute for actual arguments.

Dan is missing. Dan shouldn't be missing. Ezekiel didn't remove the tribe of Dan. Revelation does. I'll take Ezekiel. Revelation doesn't pass the test.

Dan isn't missing. Though it is not named, it is listed:

It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel.

Or is Paul the missing tribe?

Revelation 7 talks of the "twelve tribes". Dan is not listed.... others... are....

So, you can't use a generic reference to 12 gates and say "Dan" is included.

 

[FreeToBeMe]

Its clearly a mistake. You've provided no evidence to prove otherwise.

Indeed.  And if we're going to speculate here - and let's face it....discussing why Dan is not mentioned in Revelation is pure speculation - I will speculate that "Manasseh" was mistakenly put in instead of "Dan", and that "Joseph" is meant to be inclusive of the two "half tribes" of Ephraim and Manasseh.  That's my speculation and I'm sticking to it.  Of course, those of you who believe the Bible is without error will vehemently disagree.

 

[Ransom]

Its clearly a mistake. You've provided no evidence to prove otherwise

When Moses omitted Simeon from his blessings in Deuteronomy 33, was it "clearly a mistake"? Why or why not?

When the author of 1 Chronicles omitted Dan and Zebulun from the census of chapters 4-7, was that "clearly a mistake"? Why or why not?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Its clearly a mistake. You've provided no evidence to prove otherwise.

Indeed.  And if we're going to speculate here - and let's face it....discussing why Dan is not mentioned in Revelation is pure speculation - I will speculate that "Manasseh" was mistakenly put in instead of "Dan", and that "Joseph" is meant to be inclusive of the two "half tribes" of Ephraim and Manasseh.  That's my speculation and I'm sticking to it.  Of course, those of you who believe the Bible is without error will vehemently disagree.

Why Manasseh?

Ezekiel didn't have a problem including Dan in his prophecy.

 

[Ransom]

Ezekiel didn't have a problem including Dan in his prophecy.

Moses didn't have a problem omitting Simeon from his blessing. What's your point?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Its clearly a mistake. You've provided no evidence to prove otherwise

When Moses omitted Simeon from his blessings in Deuteronomy 33, was it "clearly a mistake"? Why or why not?

When the author of 1 Chronicles omitted Dan and Zebulun from the census of chapters 4-7, was that "clearly a mistake"? Why or why not?

1 Chronicles may well be a textual mistake. Simeon is more related to the blessing of the tribes and their union with Judah in the land...... and NOT about sealing 12,000 out of each tribe.

Either way, you're justifying a mistake by pointing at other mistakes.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Ezekiel didn't have a problem including Dan in his prophecy.

Moses didn't have a problem omitting Simeon from his blessing. What's your point?

See my answer in my last post.

 

[Ransom]

Either way, you're justifying a mistake by pointing at other mistakes.

Circular reasoning n. See: circular reasoning.

 

[FreeToBeMe]

Why Manasseh?
Ezekiel didn't have a problem including Dan in his prophecy.

If you mean why Manasseh instead of Ephraim....who knows?  I can only speculate, and I've already put in my speculation.
But to add to my previous speculation:
Rev 7:4:  And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Now if "all" means "all", there is a mistake in the naming of the tribes in the following verses.  If "all" doesn't mean "all", then the mistake is in Revelation 7:4.   
Some versions do say "every" instead of "all", but the same applies.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Why Manasseh?
Ezekiel didn't have a problem including Dan in his prophecy.

If you mean why Manasseh instead of Ephraim....who knows?  I can only speculate, and I've already put in my speculation.
But to add to my previous speculation:
Rev 7:4:  And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Now if "all" means "all", there is a mistake in the naming of the tribes in the following verses.  If "all" doesn't mean "all", then the mistake is in Revelation 7:4.

I agree with you for the most part, I'm still trying to get at why the removal of Dan. What name "replaced" Dan?

 

[FreeToBeMe]

I agree with you for the most part, I'm still trying to get at the why the removal of Dan. What name "replaced" Dan?

Maybe a manuscript copier was ticked off at the tribe of Dan?  I dunno.....but the twelve tribes as described in Genesis 49 clearly define the twelve tribes as Jacob blessed them, and that is why I believe that "Manasseh" was an error.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I agree with you for the most part, I'm still trying to get at the why the removal of Dan. What name "replaced" Dan?

Maybe a manuscript copier was ticked off at the tribe of Dan?  I dunno.....but the twelve tribes as described in Genesis 49 clearly define the twelve tribes as Jacob blessed them, and that is why I believe that "Manasseh" was an error.

Maybe. I think its doubtful. I think its possible the writer just messed up.

 

[Vince Massi]

In Revelation's list, the tribe of Joseph is listed. Jacob had explained that Ephraim would be the chief of Joseph's two sons, and they became the tribe of Joseph. Manasseh, the first-born, is listed as a second tribe.

There are no mistakes in Revelation--Dan is no longer a tribe. The Danites blended in with the other tribes, and they did not become extinct. Furthermore, just as God had listed Benjamin as part of Judah, Dan might still exist under the protection of one of the other tribes.

 

[FreeToBeMe]

Maybe. I think its doubtful. I think its possible the writer just messed up.

Yeah, my comment was tongue-in-cheek.  I also believe the writer may have messed up.

 

[praise_yeshua]

In Revelation's list, the tribe of Joseph is listed. Jacob had explained that Ephraim would be the chief of Joseph's two sons, and they became the tribe of Joseph. Manasseh, the first-born, is listed as a second tribe.

There are no mistakes in Revelation--Dan is no longer a tribe. The Danites blended in with the other tribes, and they did not become extinct. Furthermore, just as God had listed Benjamin as part of Judah, Dan might still exist under the protection of one of the other tribes.

1. Ezekiel listed Dan. If what you said is true, then why did Ezekiel list Dan?

2. Benjamin is listed in Revelation 7:8. I believe you've gotten lost in your rhetoric. If Dan was part of another tribe like Benjamin was part of Judah, then why list Benjamin and not Dan?

 

[FreeToBeMe]

In Revelation's list, the tribe of Joseph is listed. Jacob had explained that Ephraim would be the chief of Joseph's two sons, and they became the tribe of Joseph. Manasseh, the first-born, is listed as a second tribe.

....and yet, Jacob does not make this distinction in Genesis 49, nor is it made in verse 28 of the same chapter.