This deserves it's own thread...

Just John

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I have posted rather passionately about Donald Trump not because I think he will be president. I'm quite confident he won't.  But I am concerned about what he is doing and will do that will pretty much guarantee the most liberal candidate running to win.

I read the following opinion piece in the WP tonight. It is hilarious and I think even his biggest supporter would  have to admit much of the points made.

By David A. Fahrenthold August 1 

Donald Trump wants to make America great again. This is how he wants to do it:

If Trump were elected president, he says, he would launch the U.S. government into a massive building project — and a massive manhunt — both at once.

On the U.S.-Mexico border, Trump would build a long, impenetrable wall. In the rest of the country, he would pressure the estimated 11 million illegal immigrants to “self-deport” — and, if they don't, round them up to deport en masse. Later, Trump says, “the good ones” could come back.

He also wants to go on a building spree.

Modern new VA hospitals. Better bridges, highways, railroads. A new floor at LaGuardia Airport, to replace that shabby terrazzo Trump hates. And, to pay for it all, Trump would not raise taxes. He’d lower them.

Instead, Trump would get other countries to start paying the United States large new sums of money — and agree to receive nothing in return. China, for instance, would pay for new tariffs. Mexico would even pay for America’s new border wall.

“They’re not going to pay for the wall,” Fox News host Bill O’Reilly told Trump this summer.

“You have to let me handle that, okay?” Trump said.

Trump, a billionaire real-estate developer and ­reality-TV star, has surged to the lead in the Republican presidential nominating contest using a showman’s flair and anti-immigrant and anti-Washington rhetoric.

But, so far, he’s missing something basic: a policy platform. A formal list of Trump’s ideas for America.

“They’re all done,” Corey Lewandowski, his campaign manager, said in a recent radio interview. Not that they’re going to share them or anything. “They’re done and we’re waiting, you know, for our schedule,” Lewandowski said.

Nonetheless, Trump has already explained pieces of his vision — in this year’s speeches and interviews, and in “Time to Get Tough,” a political book he wrote four years ago.

At times, those ideas make Trump sound like a conservative Republican. He wants to repeal “Obamacare.” He has called global warming “bull----.” He wants to end the Common Core education program and renegotiate the nuclear deal with Iran. But, at other times, he sounds more like a Democrat: Trump, for instance, rejects GOP plans to overhaul Medicare.

In other areas, Trump’s ideas seem to defy both parties’ orthodoxies. And sometimes, to defy logic.

To square the circles in his vision — to explain how he will do things that seem implausible — Trump’s answer is usually himself. That is the heart of Trump-ism, the glue that holds the agenda together — the man’s own sky-high self-confidence.

President Trump’s vision would work because Trump would be president.

“Trump is like your Uncle George at Thanksgiving dinner, saying he knows how to solve all the problems. It’s not that he’s always wrong. It’s just that he’s an auto mechanic, not a policy guy,” said Mark Krikorian of the Center for Immigration Studies, which calls for reduced immigration.

Krikorian actually agrees with Trump that illegal immigration is a major problem. But he’s frustrated by Trump’s ideas to fix it — such as a suggestion to charge Mexico $100,000 for “every person they send over” across the U.S. border.

“Charging them, how? For what?” Krikorian said. “It’s just Uncle George at Thanksgiving, kind of holding forth.”

In a phone call Saturday evening, Trump rejected arguments that his ideas — particularly those about building bigger projects on lower taxes — were implausible.

“It’s not implausible, because we’re going to make the economy sing,” he said. Trump said that under his leadership, more jobs and more growth would make up for lower tax rates.

He was asked whether — in the course of his campaign — he had encountered any issue where the situation was more complicated than he’d first believed. The answer seemed to be no.

“Life is complicated. But this is not complicated, believe me,” he said. He assured a reporter that he would like America under Trump: “You’ll be happy, believe me. You’ll be happy.”

The candidate was in Scotland late last week, visiting one of his golf courses. In his phone call with The Washington Post on Saturday, Trump was asked about a question raised by conservatives.

If he became president, were there any major parts of the federal government he wanted to cut?

Trump said he would cut portions of the Education Department — where he wants to eliminate Common Core — and parts of the Environmental Protection Agency. He cited clean-air enforcement as an area where regulators have become too burdensome.

For now, Trump’s lack of a detailed campaign platform hasn’t stopped his campaign. He leads the Republican field by at least six percentage points in poll averages. That would be enough to put him at center stage for the first presidential debate on Thursday night.

“It’s not so much what I like about him. It’s what I dislike about everything else in Washington,” explained Skip Houston, 51, an airline pilot from Georgia and a Trump supporter. Houston said he admired Trump’s raw approach and his ridicule of Washington’s culture of fundraising and favors.

But what about Trump’s policy ideas? “He hasn’t really gotten that in-depth yet,” Houston said.

Did that bother him? “It’s too early” Houston said. “There’s over a year to go.”

One thing is clear: Trump has reversed several positions from his past.

In 1999, contemplating a possible presidential run, Trump said he was pro-choice. Today, he is against abortion. He previously praised the idea of a national, single-payer health-care system. Today, while aiming his fire at the president’s health-care law, he doesn’t.

Trump also seems to have backed off another unusual idea: a one-time mega-tax on the nation’s very wealthy. In 2000, Trump advocated a 14.25 percent tax on people with a net worth over $10 million, which he estimated would raise $5.7 trillion and pay off the national debt in one swoop.

“It’s a win-win for the American people but an idea that no conventional politician would have the guts to put forward,” Trump wrote in his 2000 book, “The America We Deserve.”

Trump doesn’t mention that idea now.

“The numbers no longer work,” because the national debt is higher, said one longtime friend, who asked for anonymity in order to speak about Trump’s thinking without authorization from his campaign. “It was a good idea at the time. We should’ve done it. We’d be out of debt now. Or maybe not.”

Today, when Trump talks about taxes, he usually talks about lowering them.

He has called for eliminating the estate tax. Lowering personal income taxes. Other Republicans say the same. But Trump has gone much further in one respect. In his 2011 policy book, “Time to Get Tough,” Trump called for eliminating the income tax on corporations entirely: “A zero percent corporate tax would create an unprecedented jobs boom,” he wrote.

But it would also open a sinkhole in the federal budget. About 9 percent of all government revenue would vanish.

At the same time, Trump has contemplated expensive new plans. To fight the Islamic State, for instance, he has advocated a military campaign aimed at removing the oil out from under the militants’ territory.

“Take back their wealth. Take back the oil. . . . You bomb the hell out of them and then you encircle it, and then you go in” with an oil company, Trump has said. “Once you take that oil, they have nothing left. And it’s so simple.”

Oil-industry experts expressed skepticism about this plan. Skepticism, in fact, may not be a strong-enough word. They noted, for instance, the difficulty of finding a company willing to get oil out of an active war zone, and that depleting the area’s relatively minor oil fields might still take decades.

“That is sheer lunacy on so many counts, it’s hard to start,” said David Goldwyn , a former State Department special envoy for energy in the Obama administration.

At the same time, Trump — a real-estate developer now imagining himself in charge of the largest property owner in the country — has a lot of ideas for things to build at home.

Highways. A fortified border. Better VA hospitals to replace what Trump called “outdated dumps.”

“When he comes up against a problem, his reflexive answer is that we’ll do something to fix it that’s going to cost more money,” said Michael Tanner, of the libertarian Cato Institute.

He said Trump had not explained enough about how these big projects would be paid for as tax revenue declined. “You can’t spend more and collect less. That’s kind of basic math,” Tanner said. “You can argue about how the math adds up in the other people’s plans. But there’s math there. This, there’s just no math.”

That’s where the other countries come in.

In his 2011 book, for instance, Trump called for a 25 percent tariff on all goods imported from China if China wouldn’t stop unfair trade practices. Trump has also called for increased tariffs on imports from Mexico in order to pay for his wall.

He would also threaten American companies with tariffs if those companies wanted to shift U.S. jobs overseas.

“I would call up the head of Ford, who I know. If I was president, I’d say, ‘Congratulations. I understand that you’re building a nice $2.5 billion car factory in Mexico and that you’re going to take your cars and sell them to the United States, zero tax,’ ” Trump said during his campaign announcement. “So I would say, ‘Congratulations. That’s the good news. Let me give you the bad news . . . we’re going to charge you a 35 percent tax.’ ”

But these plans would not be easy. Even for President Trump.

Even if Trump could get Congress to approve new tariff increases, for instance, they would likely violate existing trade agreements. And they would hit Americans in the pocketbook by making imported goods more expensive. And, probably, they would trigger retaliations from other countries, which would raise their own tariffs and hurt U.S. exports.

“If you thought this had a ghost of a chance — which it doesn’t — you would sell all your stocks,” because of the damage that a trade war would do to the U.S. economy, said Gary Hufbauer , of the Peterson Institute for International Economics.

Hufbauer said that the United States has spent decades trying to lower tariffs worldwide. “This would be the U.S. kind of going into the insane asylum,” he said. “It would be blowing up the system which we have created since the Second World War.”

In Trump’s plan, the thing that makes it all work is . . . Trump. This confidence is not new. Back in 2000, Trump wrote that — if elected president — he would appoint a new U.S. trade representative.

Guess who.

“My lawyers have checked, and the president has this authority,” Trump wrote then. “Our trading partners would have to sit across the table from Donald Trump.”

This year, Trump said he believed those same deal-making skills could also improve U.S. relations with an unpredictable rival: Russian President Vladi­mir Putin.

“I would be willing to bet I would have a great relationship with Putin. It’s about leadership,” he told Fox’s O’Reilly.

“Based on what?” O’Reilly asked. “You’re two macho guys?”

“Based on a feel.”

“Just a feel?”

“Based on feel,” Trump replied.
 
No.  This is funny.
"Macy's has severed ties with Donald Trump and no longer will carry his men's wear collection. From now on, men who want to look like Donald Trump will have to hunt and kill their own hair piece." –Conan O'Brien
 
biscuit1953 said:
No.  This is funny.
"Macy's has severed ties with Donald Trump and no longer will carry his men's wear collection. From now on, men who want to look like Donald Trump will have to hunt and kill their own hair piece." –Conan O'Brien

LOL. That's good.
 
Just John said:
blah blah blah...

Nothing substantial enough worthy of a response except this: 

How can you accomplish a tax-funded plan X by reducing taxes?  Easy.  It has been demonstrated time again that if you cut taxes, you actually increase tax revenue because you create more taxpayers.  Assuming you can't figure that out for yourself, here's how it works. 

Cut tax rates on company A.  Company A now has more revenue, and uses it to hire 100 more workers who were unemployed (and therefore sucking up public money) up until then.  The end result is less public money being spent, and more taxes being collected. 

The brain-dead response to that is, "the unemployed aren't getting public revenue - they're simply getting back what they paid in."  But that's not how it works.  When you pay unemployment insurance, it doesn't go into some rainy-day savings account just for you.  It goes into the public pot along with money from others.  When that money runs out during times of high unemployment (like in the past 7 years), taxpayer funds have to get diverted to unemployment compensation.

 
IFB X-Files said:
Mr. Trump (as most all presidential candidates) fails to realize that Congress is a part of the problem/solution.

Vote Rand Paul!
All any future president has to do is ignore congress and simply issue executive orders just like Obama does.  The precedent has been set.  We no longer have a constitutional government.
 
The Rogue Tomato said:
Cut tax rates on company A.  Company A now has more revenue, and uses it to hire 100 more workers who were unemployed (and therefore sucking up public money) up until then.  The end result is less public money being spent, and more taxes being collected. 

Works in theory but not always in reality. Company A takes that revenue, invests in technology where they hire 25 workers and let technology run the rest and pocket the profits for the CEOs and board members.

Do I have a better solution? Nope, but the ideal does not work.

On Jan. 15, 2015, counterpunch.org published a chart showing that in the last 40 years (since 1950), hourly compensation for American workers has increased only 113.1% while U.S. productivity has increased 254.3%.

A CEO in 2014 made about 257 times the average worker's salary, an increase from 181 times in 2009 (in 2013, pay for U.S. workers as a whole increased 1.3 percent), according to Associated Press reporter Josh Boak in the May 29, 2014, Seattle Times.

The top 1 percent of U.S earners in 2012 grabbed 22.5 percent of all income earned by Americans, up from its 19.7 percent level in 2011, according to the Seattle Times on Sept. 11, 2013, which cited an updated study by economists Emmanuel Saed and Thomas Piketty.

According to the story, the 2012 pretax income of the 1 percent was above $394,000. The top 10 percent of earners toook more than half of America's total income in 2012 (income of the to 10 percent exceeded $114,000), the story said.

The top 7 percent of U.S. households (in 2011) owned 63 percent of the nation's total household wealth, up from 56 percent in 2009 (according to the Pew Research Center), and the average net worth of the top 7 percent of the wealth distribution increased by 28 percent (to $3.2 million, up from $2.5 million) while the lower 93 percent dropped by 4 percent (to $134,000 from $140,000), according to an April 24, 2013, AP article in the Seattle Times.

The richest people on Earth got even richer in 2012 -- they added $241 billion to their collective net worth. That net worth stood at $1.9 trillion at the end of December, according to a Jan. 2, 2013, Seattle Times article (citing Bloomberg Billionaires Index).

Source

This isn't a complaint about the rich getting richer or that the wealth needs to be spread around, but rather that this 'trickle down' theory is only creating a government run by corporations rather than the people. Their monies control the politicians of BOTH political parties who have become nothing more than NASCAR drivers: sponsors to make their donors increase their wealth.

Again, I don't have the slightest hint of a solution but it doesn't take an expert to see that a sledgehammer ('trickle down') has little use when it comes to electrical work (reality).
 
Smellin Coffee said:
The Rogue Tomato said:
Cut tax rates on company A.  Company A now has more revenue, and uses it to hire 100 more workers who were unemployed (and therefore sucking up public money) up until then.  The end result is less public money being spent, and more taxes being collected. 

Works in theory but not always in reality. Company A takes that revenue, invests in technology where they hire 25 workers and let technology run the rest and pocket the profits for the CEOs and board members.

Historically speaking, when you cut taxes (particularly capital gains taxes, but not just those), tax revenues increase.  Even Obama admitted this in a debate with Hillary Clinton before he was elected.  He was asked why he would raise taxes despite this historically known fact, and he didn't dispute the premise.  He simply said he would raise taxes anyway "out of fairness".  He has a bizarre definition of fairness, given that it puts people out of work and creates a bigger "poor" population. 

I don't care how much richer the rich get.  I do care, however, if policies make people unemployed and poorer just so the rich can be a little less rich.
 
The Rogue Tomato said:
Smellin Coffee said:
The Rogue Tomato said:
Cut tax rates on company A.  Company A now has more revenue, and uses it to hire 100 more workers who were unemployed (and therefore sucking up public money) up until then.  The end result is less public money being spent, and more taxes being collected. 

Works in theory but not always in reality. Company A takes that revenue, invests in technology where they hire 25 workers and let technology run the rest and pocket the profits for the CEOs and board members.

Historically speaking, when you cut taxes (particularly capital gains taxes, but not just those), tax revenues increase.  Even Obama admitted this in a debate with Hillary Clinton before he was elected.  He was asked why he would raise taxes despite this historically known fact, and he didn't dispute the premise.  He simply said he would raise taxes anyway "out of fairness".  He has a bizarre definition of fairness, given that it puts people out of work and creates a bigger "poor" population. 

I don't care how much richer the rich get.  I do care, however, if policies make people unemployed and poorer just so the rich can be a little less rich.

THAT is a mouthful, and really what I believe Obama is after. I really believe this statement sums up his presidency.
 
It's very predictable how ppl say that, running a company is not like running a Country.

And I agree but what president has EVER RAN/BUILT what Trump has?
 
The Rogue Tomato said:
Just John said:
blah blah blah...

Nothing substantial enough worthy of a response except this: 

How can you accomplish a tax-funded plan X by reducing taxes?  Easy.  It has been demonstrated time again that if you cut taxes, you actually increase tax revenue because you create more taxpayers.  Assuming you can't figure that out for yourself, here's how it works. 

Cut tax rates on company A.  Company A now has more revenue, and uses it to hire 100 more workers who were unemployed (and therefore sucking up public money) up until then.  The end result is less public money being spent, and more taxes being collected. 

The brain-dead response to that is, "the unemployed aren't getting public revenue - they're simply getting back what they paid in."  But that's not how it works.  When you pay unemployment insurance, it doesn't go into some rainy-day savings account just for you.  It goes into the public pot along with money from others.  When that money runs out during times of high unemployment (like in the past 7 years), taxpayer funds have to get diverted to unemployment compensation.

You didn't get anything else out of that?  LOL,  oh wait, you didn't get his plans or many of his convictions. You get a lot of "trust me's" or "they won't want to deal with me" kind of bluster.  That's just "I'm so great, I can do anything. I'll take care of you"  entertaining nonsense.

He IS "Uncle George at Thanksgiving dinner.  Has all of the answers but not many plans.  Just HOW is he going to make Mexico pay $100k for every illegal we take in?  And he really thinks he can just go bomb the middle east and steal the oil?  Or was that then and not now? Or vice versa?

I am a supply sider with two caveats. (1) The necessary spending cuts never happen. Instead the spending continues to go up!  How is Trump going to pay for all of the infrastructure he wants to build? It will be way more expensive than the tax base can increase.  That brings up  (2)...There is a bell curve to supply side economics on when cutting taxes no longer increases tax revenue. I don't know where it is and I'm pretty sure we aren't there but it's just math because  otherwise they could wipe out taxes and...but that wouldn't work very well.

I wonder if Trump is still for the additional 14.5% percent tax on the rich to get the country out of debt? That won't work just on individuals so did he also mean corporations? Hmmm. :)
 
Bruh said:
It's very predictable how ppl say that, running a company is not like running a Country.

And I agree but what president has EVER RAN/BUILT what Trump has?

You know what they said about Mussolini; "He made the trains run on time". :)
 
[quote author=Just John]I wonder if Trump is still for the additional 14.5% percent tax on the rich to get the country out of debt? That won't work just on individuals so did he also mean corporations? Hmmm. :)
[/quote]

I wonder if he's still for chopping up babies as they move through the birth canal.
 
rsc2a said:
[quote author=Just John]I wonder if Trump is still for the additional 14.5% percent tax on the rich to get the country out of debt? That won't work just on individuals so did he also mean corporations? Hmmm. :)

I wonder if he's still for chopping up babies as they move through the birth canal.
[/quote]

Only if they make the process "less crunchy".
 
Bruh said:
And I agree but what president has EVER RAN/BUILT what Trump has?

Of the last six presidents, four - Carter, Reagan, Clinton, and Bush 43 - were state governors.

I'd say that's about the equivalent of running what Trump has. With the added bonus of being exactly the same kind of work experience as being president, differing primarily in scope.
 
Ransom said:
Bruh said:
And I agree but what president has EVER RAN/BUILT what Trump has?

Of the last six presidents, four - Carter, Reagan, Clinton, and Bush 43 - were state governors.

I'd say that's about the equivalent of running what Trump has. With the added bonus of being exactly the same kind of work experience as being president, differing primarily in scope.

Except they ran their states with other people's money.  Theoretically, they can still be "fired" if they don't do well, but we know it rarely plays out that way.  But if you are CEO of a company and screw up a company the way governors sometimes screw up states, the board will boot you so fast it'll make your head spin.  I don't know if it works quite that way for Trump -- just comparing CEOs to governors here. 

 
Ransom said:
Bruh said:
And I agree but what president has EVER RAN/BUILT what Trump has?

Of the last six presidents, four - Carter, Reagan, Clinton, and Bush 43 - were state governors.

I'd say that's about the equivalent of running what Trump has. With the added bonus of being exactly the same kind of work experience as being president, differing primarily in scope.

Yea I see ur point.  Well then again,  governors don't have to produce only maintain at best but what Trump has done is create and make bigger.

 
Bruh said:
Ransom said:
Bruh said:
And I agree but what president has EVER RAN/BUILT what Trump has?

Of the last six presidents, four - Carter, Reagan, Clinton, and Bush 43 - were state governors.

I'd say that's about the equivalent of running what Trump has. With the added bonus of being exactly the same kind of work experience as being president, differing primarily in scope.

Yea I see ur point.  Well then again,  governors don't have to produce only maintain at best but what Trump has done is create and make bigger.

Until he takes an advantageous bankruptcy every now and then.  :)
 
Just John said:
Bruh said:
It's very predictable how ppl say that, running a company is not like running a Country.

And I agree but what president has EVER RAN/BUILT what Trump has?

You know what they said about Mussolini; "He made the trains run on time". :)

I thought that was Mayor Daley.
 
We are supposed to be electing a person, not policy.
The problem, of course, is that our corrupt gov. doesn't stick to the allowable policy range, and so people run on policy correction, because it sells.

The truth is, we need to elect a strong nationalist with self-confidence.
A humble man can't correct the problems that we have, only a brash man can.
There is a time for war, etc.
This is the time for a maniac to steer us into the skid.


Haklo

 
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