This Is How Nutty Calvinists Are.

[Twisted]

https://reformcon.org

"...we will spend two days soaking in pure and unadulterated Calvinistic delight while being equipped to take the good news of the Gospel into the public square."

Don't get me wrong.  If you're a "Calvinist" but attempt to witness and win souls I'm for you.  100%.

It's just that I don't understand you.  According to Calvinism, it makes not one wit of difference if you preach, witness, pass out tracts, etc as God has, in eternity past, made His choice, and there ain't a thing you can do to change it. 

 

[Ransom]

According to Calvin, it makes not one wit of difference if you preach, witness, pass out tracts, etc as God has, in eternity past, made His choice, and there ain't a thing you can do to change it. 

Yeah? Where did Calvin say that?

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

The great irony of a Ruckmanite calling someone ?Nutty?.
Nut and Ruckmanite are synonyms.

 

[Ransom]

The great irony of a Ruckmanite calling someone ?Nutty?.
Nut and Ruckmanite are synonyms.

I'm sure the extraordinarily well-informed, erudite, and not-at-all making-crap-up Twisted is, right this very moment, scouring the entirety of the works of Calvin, who regarded the whole of Europe as a mission field and sent out the first overseas Protestant missionaries to Brazil in 1556, for that place where he informed his readers it made "not one wit" [sic] of difference if you evangelized.

Speaking of "not one wit," I'll credit Twisted with half of one.

 

[FSSL]

Don't get me wrong.  If you're a "Calvinist" but attempt to witness and win souls I'm for you.  100%.

It's just that I don't understand you.

 

[cpizzle]

Ok...Calvin didn't say what Twisted said.....but...??.what is the purpose of evangelism in a predetermined world?

The most common answer I hear from folks is "Evangelism and missions are the tools God uses to bring about his plan of redeeming the elect. (or something similar.)"

It still doesn't make any sense to me.  Is this one of those "embrace the tension" scenarios?

 

[FSSL]

The most common answer I hear from folks is "Evangelism and missions are the tools God uses to bring about his plan of redeeming the elect. (or something similar.)"

It still doesn't make any sense to me.  Is this one of those "embrace the tension" scenarios?

Why not? Even IFB crowd believes that God uses men to propagate the gospel.
The difference is, not in our mandate, but in the methods.

The IFBs teach that certain methods, plans and approaches are necessary to save people. This is reflected in their testimonials. "Today, while going door to door, I saved 30 people!"

The Calvinists give testimony in this way.... "Today, I had the opportunity to present the gospel and am thankful to have witnessed God's work in that person!"

Funny thing though... whenever an IFB or Calvinist prays, they both say, "God please save these people from their sins."

So, the consistent position is to approach evangelism with God as the Worker in the lives of men. No human method/plan or witnessing strategy offsets God's work in a person's life.

I just left a church where the newly installed pastor required EVERYONE to memorize rote phrasing when giving the gospel. As a Calvinist... with many years of schooling in the Bible... I don't need no stinkin' script.

 

[Edwards]

https://reformcon.org

"...we will spend two days soaking in pure and unadulterated Calvinistic delight while being equipped to take the good news of the Gospel into the public square."

Don't get me wrong.  If you're a "Calvinist" but attempt to witness and win souls I'm for you.  100%.



It's just that I don't understand you.  According to Calvin, it makes not one wit of difference if you preach, witness, pass out tracts, etc as God has, in eternity past, made His choice, and there ain't a thing you can do to change it.

I fear that you have listened to people that have neither have read nor understand John Calvin and His teachings. 

God does not work in a vacuum, He uses means of His own choosing.  He has chosen to use His word and prayer in bringing the gospel to the hearts of sinners - in other words, He uses His church to work out His plan.  He works His plan out in human history through us!  - and what a blessing  that is, His adopted children,  to be allowed to proclaim the lifegiving message of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.  As one that embraces Reformed Theology my criticism  of Calvinists is that they do so little evangelism (actually, that is my criticism of Christ's church in general throughout our country).  For a church to not reach out with the gospel is to not be a part of God's plan as set down in the Bible.  Do not be surprised to see Jonathan Edwards, Charles Spurgeon, John Bunyan, etc. preaching the gospel even though they believed in the doctrine of election for they were being obedient to the command of their (our) King, Jesus Christ.

 

 

[cpizzle]

The most common answer I hear from folks is "Evangelism and missions are the tools God uses to bring about his plan of redeeming the elect. (or something similar.)"

It still doesn't make any sense to me.  Is this one of those "embrace the tension" scenarios?

Why not? Even IFB crowd believes that God uses men to propagate the gospel.
The difference is, not in our mandate, but in the methods.

The IFBs teach that certain methods, plans and approaches are necessary to save people. This is reflected in their testimonials. "Today, while going door to door, I saved 30 people!"

The Calvinists give testimony in this way.... "Today, I had the opportunity to present the gospel and am thankful to have witnessed God's work in that person!"

Funny thing though... whenever an IFB or Calvinist prays, they both say, "God please save these people from their sins."

So, the consistent position is to approach evangelism with God as the Worker in the lives of men. No human method/plan or witnessing strategy offsets God's work in a person's life.

I just left a church where the newly installed pastor required EVERYONE to memorize rote phrasing when giving the gospel. As a Calvinist... with many years of schooling in the Bible... I don't need no stinkin' script.

Thank you for the response.  I agree that many IFB's use incorrect terminology when it comes to seeing God saving a sinner.  We all understand, he does the saving.  I also agree that many soulwinners have made salvation "transactional" and "obligational" on God's part.  That doesn't change my view on the absurdity of "persuading men" who have already been selected to be partakers of "irresistible grace."  I can evangelize out of "duty" and "obedience", but my work is ultimately pointless in the lives of sinners.  They will get saved whether I evangelize or not.  God is pleased when we witness, but we ultimately made no difference.  I believe that God can be "illogical" to us (his ways our not our ways), but I hate just defaulting to "God works in mysterious ways."

 

[Twisted]

Thank you for the response.  I agree that many IFB's use incorrect terminology when it comes to seeing God saving a sinner.  We all understand, he does the saving.  I also agree that many soulwinners have made salvation "transactional" and "obligational" on God's part.  That doesn't change my view on the absurdity of "persuading men" who have already been selected to be partakers of "irresistible grace."  I can evangelize out of "duty" and "obedience", but my work is ultimately pointless in the lives of sinners.  They will get saved whether I evangelize or not.  God is pleased when we witness, but we ultimately made no difference.  I believe that God can be "illogical" to us (his ways our not our ways), but I hate just defaulting to "God works in mysterious ways."

In reading Vance's "The Other Side...", I get the impression that Calvinists witness so that the "non-elect"  will accept their "total inability" at the White Throne.  The book doesn't say that, it's just an impression I get.  It is such a perversion.

I rejoice that ALL who hear the gospel have a choice to receive or reject.

 

[Ransom]

The most common answer I hear from folks is "Evangelism and missions are the tools God uses to bring about his plan of redeeming the elect. (or something similar.)"

And what's the problem with that? God's sovereignty over the universe is absolute. He elects both the means and the outcome. The relationship between election and evangelism is consistent at both ends.

John Calvin never wrote systematically about missiology, but he said repeatedly in his sermons that the purpose of God is to spread his kingdom throughout the world, and that the proclamation of the gospel to the lost is the means by which he accomplishes this. It was by the power of God that we ourselves are saved; therefore, it is by the power of God that we proclaim the gospel so that others may be saved. No power on earth can stop the Holy Spirit from drawing one of the elect of God to himself. Evangelism isn't inexplicable in light of predestination. It's the only thing that guarantees its success.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

https://reformcon.org

"...we will spend two days soaking in pure and unadulterated Calvinistic delight while being equipped to take the good news of the Gospel into the public square."

Don't get me wrong.  If you're a "Calvinist" but attempt to witness and win souls I'm for you.  100%.

It's just that I don't understand you.  According to Calvinism, it makes not one wit of difference if you preach, witness, pass out tracts, etc as God has, in eternity past, made His choice, and there ain't a thing you can do to change it.

You know as much about ?Calvinism? as you know the SBC or Bible translations...
Which appears to be zip, zero, nada!

But, on the other hand, you?re as much of a scholar as Ruckman or Let Her Riplinger!

 

[Ransom]

But, on the other hand, you?re as much of a scholar as Ruckman or Let Her Riplinger!

Or Laurence Vance. Remember, big thick books with lots of footnotes = skollership!

 

[Twisted]

...or Let Her Riplinger!

Good one!  But better as "Let'er Riplinger"

 

[Twisted]

But, on the other hand, you?re as much of a scholar as Ruckman or Let Her Riplinger!

Or Laurence Vance. Remember, big thick books with lots of footnotes = skollership!

That's the problem with a theological position that requires "skollership".

 

[Ransom]

That's the problem with a theological position that requires "skollership".

Maybe Vance should have gone to a proper skool.

 

[Twisted]

That's the problem with a theological position that requires "skollership".

Maybe Vance should have gone to a proper skool.

I wasn't talking about Vance.

 

[Tim]

https://reformcon.org

"...we will spend two days soaking in pure and unadulterated Calvinistic delight while being equipped to take the good news of the Gospel into the public square."

Don't get me wrong.  If you're a "Calvinist" but attempt to witness and win souls I'm for you.  100%.

It's just that I don't understand you.  According to Calvinism, it makes not one wit of difference if you preach, witness, pass out tracts, etc as God has, in eternity past, made His choice, and there ain't a thing you can do to change it.

God uses his elect to reach the lost. He commands his elect to reach the lost. His elect glorify God by obeying his command to reach the lost. His elect play a part in the grand plan of God.

At least, that is how I understand it from my "Calvinist" pastor.

 

[Twisted]

https://reformcon.org

"...we will spend two days soaking in pure and unadulterated Calvinistic delight while being equipped to take the good news of the Gospel into the public square."

Don't get me wrong.  If you're a "Calvinist" but attempt to witness and win souls I'm for you.  100%.

It's just that I don't understand you.  According to Calvinism, it makes not one wit of difference if you preach, witness, pass out tracts, etc as God has, in eternity past, made His choice, and there ain't a thing you can do to change it.

God uses his elect to reach the lost. He commands his elect to reach the lost. His elect glorify God by obeying his command to reach the lost. His elect play a part in the grand plan of God.

At least, that is how I understand it from my "Calvinist" pastor.

As I said, if you're witnessing and trying to win people to Christ, I don't care if your pastor is a "Calvinist" or not.  (Well, I do care.)

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

https://reformcon.org

"...we will spend two days soaking in pure and unadulterated Calvinistic delight while being equipped to take the good news of the Gospel into the public square."

Don't get me wrong.  If you're a "Calvinist" but attempt to witness and win souls I'm for you.  100%.

It's just that I don't understand you.  According to Calvinism, it makes not one wit of difference if you preach, witness, pass out tracts, etc as God has, in eternity past, made His choice, and there ain't a thing you can do to change it.

God uses his elect to reach the lost. He commands his elect to reach the lost. His elect glorify God by obeying his command to reach the lost. His elect play a part in the grand plan of God.

At least, that is how I understand it from my "Calvinist" pastor.

As I said, if you're witnessing and trying to win people to Christ, I don't care if your pastor is a "Calvinist" or not.  (Well, I do care.)

Truthfully, with no sarcasm intended at all....you do not know what a ?Calvinist? is, our believes.