Tithing Under the Law

[praise_yeshua]

Question for those who do not believe in tithing.

Me thinks you are equating tithing with giving and coming to the conclusion that there are people who believe we are not to give.

1. Would you say we are suppose to support the local church through our increase and the old testament example of 10% could be applied today regarding supporting our local ministries. Would you agree to it, not as a command, but as a reference to compare to.

Yes we are to support or local body/congregation/assembly with our time talent and treasure. I have no problem using 10% as an example and/or reference point. I would not claim it as a command.

2. How do you propose to support the local church and its ministries if members do not give.

Why would they not give? See, me thought correctly.

3. What do you believe God expects each of us to give?

The exact amount He leads them to give. He led the widow to give her last two pennies. Has he led you to give all that you have?

4. Do you think, in the USA, most people can afford to give 10%?

Of course. They can afford smart phones can't they? Actually most could afford more. So what?a Most believers that I know well enough to be aware of their giving hit a much high plateau. But again, so what?

5. What should new Christians be taught regarding biblical giving.

That they have a responsibility to consider all that they have to be property of God. And that when he directs them to give from their possessions,  they are to do so as an act of worship and obedience.

I can live with your take on tithing. I'm not so sure I can agree with some of the others peoples views regarding giving.

It seems the major sticking point is preachers teaching its robbing God not to give at least 10%  It seems you just want the amount to be as God blesses and impresses on each persons heart. Would that be pretty close?

Why just focus on how much. How about giving some consideration to where?

Its down right demonic to declare that the local church is the storehouse and you have to give your money to the local church.

Why are you so hung up in the amount that you can't see "the where" is messed up?

 

[praise_yeshua]

I teach people to give as they are able. For some, that is 2%. For others, that is 42%. I caveat that with the idea that able and comfortable are different things.

You don't know whether its 2 percent or 100 percent. You're not God. You're not the inspiration for giving.

Its more about the where than it is about the amount. You can give all you substance to feed the poor and not love God. You can give everything you get for the rest of your life and live in the gutter and have not the Spirit of God. The stinking devil wants people to give. He doesn't mind if every church in America is filled to capacity and is alleviating all poverty in their local communities. He loves it when people give and have no idea if God wants it done or not. He loves it when God Blesses His own and they dump their entire substance into the local church to the point their own children suffer. That why the son can blame the father and the daughter can blame the mother...... and all can end up hating one another.

Its more about the heart than it is about the gift and the giver.

 

[rsc2a]

What are you raving about now?

 

[praise_yeshua]

What are you raving about now?

You're the one claiming some should give 2 percent and others 42 percent. Why are you even mentioning any numbers at all.

How about zero?

 

[Walt]

I can live with your take on tithing. I'm not so sure I can agree with some of the others peoples views regarding giving.

It seems the major sticking point is preachers teaching its robbing God not to give at least 10%

Bob Gray, Sr used to preach (probably still does, and I think he got it from Jack Hyles) that if all you're giving is 10%, you're STILL robbing God because you're only tithing -- he quotes Malachi that God was robbed in tithes AND OFFERINGS... and says that unless you're giving to something else beyond the tithe, you are robbing God.

*sigh*

 

[Walt]

Why just focus on how much. How about giving some consideration to where?

As I recall, the question about about "How much?"

And there is plenty of support in the New Testament that those who are feeding God's children in spiritual things should be taken care of in material needs.  Certainly, one can give to things outside of the local assembly, but, in my opinion, it should not be to the point where the church cannot take care of its pastor(s) and (if they have them) buildings.

Certainly, some churches get this wrong, but they doesn't imply that the concept is wrong.

 

[Walt]

What are you raving about now?

You're the one claiming some should give 2 percent and others 42 percent. Why are you even mentioning any numbers at all.

How about zero?

You make me laugh -- one cannot give zero percent.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Why just focus on how much. How about giving some consideration to where?

As I recall, the question about about "How much?"

And there is plenty of support in the New Testament that those who are feeding God's children in spiritual things should be taken care of in material needs.  Certainly, one can give to things outside of the local assembly, but, in my opinion, it should not be to the point where the church cannot take care of its pastor(s) and (if they have them) buildings.

Certainly, some churches get this wrong, but they doesn't imply that the concept is wrong.

Walt......

I've reminded you before of what Paul said about this. If there was anyone that should have been supported it was Paul.... and he never asked for anything. He said he did so he could preach the Gospel freely..... without charge.

You minsters that demand monies to support yourself....you're charging for the Gospel.

 

[IFB X-Files]

Bob Gray, Sr used to preach (probably still does, and I think he got it from Jack Hyles) that if all you're giving is 10%, you're STILL robbing God because you're only tithing -- he quotes Malachi that God was robbed in tithes AND OFFERINGS... and says that unless you're giving to something else beyond the tithe, you are robbing God.

If true, then Bob Gray is an idiot.  Someone should send him a copy of James Knox's commentary on Malachi so he can learn some Bible.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Bob Gray, Sr used to preach (probably still does, and I think he got it from Jack Hyles) that if all you're giving is 10%, you're STILL robbing God because you're only tithing -- he quotes Malachi that God was robbed in tithes AND OFFERINGS... and says that unless you're giving to something else beyond the tithe, you are robbing God.

If true, then Bob Gray is an idiot.  Someone should send him a copy of James Knox's commentary on Malachi so he can learn some Bible.

I thought I heard him say, "I don't need no stinkin' commentary, just gimme my KJV".

 

[IFB X-Files]

I thought I heard him say, "I don't need no stinkin' commentary, just gimme my KJV".

The King James Bible - the only translation endorsed by Mormons.  Which means what?  Having the right Bible doesn't mean you'll understand what it says.

 

[Walt]

Why just focus on how much. How about giving some consideration to where?

As I recall, the question about about "How much?"

And there is plenty of support in the New Testament that those who are feeding God's children in spiritual things should be taken care of in material needs.  Certainly, one can give to things outside of the local assembly, but, in my opinion, it should not be to the point where the church cannot take care of its pastor(s) and (if they have them) buildings.

Certainly, some churches get this wrong, but they doesn't imply that the concept is wrong.

Walt......

I've reminded you before of what Paul said about this. If there was anyone that should have been supported it was Paul.... and he never asked for anything. He said he did so he could preach the Gospel freely..... without charge.

You minsters that demand monies to support yourself....you're charging for the Gospel.

Yes; you've turned this around -- Paul said that he had every right, from Scripture, to insist upon being supported by the people he was ministering to, but he chose to forgo that right.  The Holy Spirit made it quite clear that pastors should be supported by the people they are feeding.

 

[Walt]

Bob Gray, Sr used to preach (probably still does, and I think he got it from Jack Hyles) that if all you're giving is 10%, you're STILL robbing God because you're only tithing -- he quotes Malachi that God was robbed in tithes AND OFFERINGS... and says that unless you're giving to something else beyond the tithe, you are robbing God.

If true, then Bob Gray is an idiot.  Someone should send him a copy of James Knox's commentary on Malachi so he can learn some Bible.

He won't read it... He counsels others to only read books by IFB authors, since they might corrupt one.  He tells people to not read commentaries, nor should they trust Greek dictionaries.

I refuse to listen to him anymore.

 

[IFB X-Files]

He won't read it... He counsels others to only read books by IFB authors, since they might corrupt one.

Knox is IFB.

 

[BALAAM]

Here is a question. Would it have been physically possible for every  farmer/landowner, etc. to have brought 1/10th of their produce and had it stored in the storehouse?  I personally think that they would have needed 10 such places to have had room to store all the produce. The tithe went to the Levites and they brought a tenth to maintain the temple if I am correct.

Years ago I had a friend who was on staff at the Milwaukee Rescue Mission. I had no money to support the work but lived in the country and had a strong back. I decided to plant a bunch of potatoes and raise them to donate to the mission. Had about 500 pounds ready to take down there and they were turned down. They would take money but not produce because of storage issues etc. So much for OT tithing!

 

[prophet]

Here is a question. Would it have been physically possible for every  farmer/landowner, etc. to have brought 1/10th of their produce and had it stored in the storehouse?  I personally think that they would have needed 10 such places to have had room to store all the produce. The tithe went to the Levites and they brought a tenth to maintain the temple if I am correct.

Years ago I had a friend who was on staff at the Milwaukee Rescue Mission. I had no money to support the work but lived in the country and had a strong back. I decided to plant a bunch of potatoes and raise them to donate to the mission. Had about 500 pounds ready to take down there and they were turned down. They would take money but not produce because of storage issues etc. So much for OT tithing!

Yes, the tithe was the inheritance for Levi, and not a direct donation "to the Temple".
Not that it matters, since The Veil was rent, and we enter in to the most holy place ourselves in Christ.


Haklo