Trump now STRONGLY DEFENDS Bill Clinton

then what are you complaining for?......... if the model of calvinism is correct then american elections mean nothing and God appointed trump as president...... ...none of us.... not even you... had anything to do or say about it.............. ...... so do us all a favor and quit your whining..... 🤨
I would have to start whining before I could stop whining. 😉
 
I’m not a fan of Trump, but I still prefer him over Biden.
God appointed Mr. Biden to the position of President in authority over us. In the mystery of His will, He chooses to place immoral men in positions of authority to do things that moral men cannot do. 😎
 
I don’t necessarily think that’s always true. Bill Clinton maintained a historically strong economy, yet Bush won over Gore anyway.
The idea is that principle applies to incumbents running for reelection, not necessarily his VP or party’s nominee. Besides, it’s very debatable whether Bush actually won the election or not—the Supreme Court ended up deciding the outcome due to Florida’s “hanging chads” debacle.
 
Thirty million people testify against him being retrained.

The argument was that God used Stalin to restrain Hitler. Did God run out of restrainers to deal with Stalin?
Why do you assume Stalin wasn’t restrained? Or that God’s purposes in judgment weren’t accomplished?
 
I would have to start whining before I could stop whining. 😉
and now you are telling bald faced lies.... ..i;m getting really tired of hearing calvinists talk out of both sides of their mouths..... your double speak is getting really old..... ....play the game of semantics all you want and call it whatever you want... ..all you are doing is proving what a self righteous religious hypocrit you are . .....

if you really believe what you say you do - then prove your faith by living within the framework of it.... and stop complaining about decisions you say God made - and condemning people for supportng a president you claim to believe God chose......
 
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Not sure if Niccolo Machiavelli is the best example to appeal to. He believed deceit and fraud were necessary tools of statecraft, and had little use for Christianity except as a means to keep social order; as Marlowe's chorus Machiavel says in The Jew of Malta: "I count religion but a childish toy."

Just because corrupt people fail to uphold a good principle doesn't mean the fault lies in the principle. Gross utilitarianism and pragmatism are no substitute.
There was a lot more in that article than promoting the raw pragmatism and ethics of Machiavelli. I read some of his stuff way back in college, and came to the conclusion way back then that his ethical framework wasn’t one I would promote. The balance of the article was that integrity wasn’t a guarantee of good and effective leadership.
 
God appointed Mr. Biden to the position of President in authority over us. In the mystery of His will, He chooses to place immoral men in positions of authority to do things that moral men cannot do. 😎
explain that in relation to the lie you told when you denied believing christians should never vote.......
 
We should expect everyone to be morally upright.

The specific principle I was referring to is "as goes the king, so goes the country"--meaning that, as a general rule, the character, morality, and behaviour of the leader affect the direction of the country. Upright leadership leads to prosperity, while immoral and corrupt leadership leads to decline.

It's not universally true, but it is generally true, and is a good goal to strive for.
Makes you wonder what kind of leader would steal a man’s wife, let blind ambition make him a bloodthirsty warrior, and self-reliant pride take count of what a great kingdom he had built.
 
Makes you wonder what kind of leader would steal a man’s wife, let blind ambition make him a bloodthirsty warrior, and self-reliant pride take count of what a great kingdom he had built.

The kind of leader who acknowledged his sin and was penitent, as opposed to the kind who does not believe he has anything to repent.

Note what happened to the kingdom under the rule of the penitent leader's not-so-penitent grandson.
 
The kind of leader who acknowledged his sin and was penitent, as opposed to the kind who does not believe he has anything to repent.

Note what happened to the kingdom under the rule of the penitent leader's not-so-penitent grandson.
Good points, which is of course why he is a man after God’s own heart, but a very flawed man at that. Relatively speaking, an unrepentant magistrate who forwards commands which promote restraint of evil, restraint of things like sexual mutilation of little boys and girls for instance, might be considered in the vein of a secular leader like Cyrus, used to permit the return of God’s people for the rebuilding of the Temple.
 
The kind of leader who acknowledged his sin and was penitent, as opposed to the kind who does not believe he has anything to repent.

Note what happened to the kingdom under the rule of the penitent leader's not-so-penitent grandson.
give it some time..... .just because you were able to read the biblical accounts of davids reign in a single afternoon doesn;t mean it all played out in the space of one day.... ....and even if it did.... all things do not happen on the same time schedules.... ....many christians are praying for trump to turn to Christ...... and he is still a better friend to christian issues than any president in recent memory.... including the "righteous and morally upright" mr james carter.....
 
give it some time..... .just because you were able to read the biblical accounts of davids reign in a single afternoon doesn;t mean it all played out in the space of one day.... ....and even if it did.... all things do not happen on the same time schedules.... ....many christians are praying for trump to turn to Christ...... and he is still a better friend to christian issues than any president in recent memory.... including the "righteous and morally upright" mr james carter.....
A very strong defender of religious liberty indeed!
 
and he is still a better friend to christian issues than any president in recent memory.... including the "righteous and morally upright" mr james carter.....
Yet Carter was the first president in U.S. history to publicly proclaim to be a “born-again Christian” and speak of the evangelical community. In an ironic way, he paved the path for the Religious Right that would come: https://www.ms.now/opinion/msnbc-op... knew that in,expected from a fellow believer.
 
God appointed Mr. Biden to the position of President in authority over us. In the mystery of His will, He chooses to place immoral men in positions of authority to do things that moral men cannot do. 😎
Sure, no one is elected and catches God by surprise. I don’t think anyone has argued differently.
 
If only this mentality could be brought back into modern politics. Can you imagine Biden asking Trump to speak at his funeral, or Trump asking Biden to do so? A true Christian and politician:
 
Yet Carter was the first president in U.S. history to publicly proclaim to be a “born-again Christian” and speak of the evangelical community.
yes... i heard about that... .. i also heard that is how he got elected..... he convinced christian conservatives... of which a majority of americans were still a part of... that he was exactly their kind of guy..... ..(i am related to someone who voted for carter in 1976 for exactly that reason)...
again.... agreed.... ...... he paved it by completely betraying what christian conservatives believed in.... and convincing them they needed to become more politically active themselves... (including the relative i spoke of)... ... and the president they chose in 1980 was ronald reagan.... ...
 
i also heard that is how he got elected..... he convinced christian conservatives.
More accurately, he got elected by Americans who lost faith in politics and politicians coming out of the Nixon Watergate scandal and an economy that was trending downward with Ford. You left out some key historical points.
he paved it by completely betraying what christian conservatives believed in
What exactly did he betray?
and the president they chose in 1980 was ronald reagan
I think I knew that already…
 
More accurately, he got elected by Americans who lost faith in politics and politicians coming out of the Nixon Watergate scandal and an economy that was trending downward with Ford. You left out some key historical points.
that was bad - true enough...... but that alone is not what did it..... reagan ran against ford in the primary of 1976 and probably would have won except for one thing.... . he chose a liberal to be his running mate.... .conservatives all over the country were talking about how reagan had just shot himself in the foot..... apparently electing a conservative was a bigger priority during those years than liberal historians care to remember.....
What exactly did he betray?
supporting abortion and gay rights was a major turn off.. ........ those 2 things alone told christian conservatives that despite what he had claimed to be ... even if he was a christian... .. carter was not a fundamentalist.... .
I think I knew that already…
:cool:
 
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that was bad - true enough...... but that alone is not what did it..... reagan ran against ford in the primary of 1976 and probably would have won except for one thing.... . he chose a liberal to be his running mate
I’m not really sure, but Ford had a huge advantage of being the incumbent and therefore the head of the Republican Party controlling a lot of purse strings. Don’t forget that Reagan also ran (and lost) another election for the Republican nominee in 1968 to Nixon. 😎
supporting abortion and gay rights was a major turn off.. ........ those 2 things alone told christian conservatives that despite what he had claimed to be
I’m genuinely curious to see some evidence that Carter presented himself as being anti-abortion and anti-gay rights while running for president, then quickly pivoted those stances once elected. If you can prove that, it’ll be the first time I’ve encountered it. My understanding is that Carter was cordial to gay people by inviting a delegation of them into the White House for conversations, similar to what a president would do with other civic groups. Other than having conversations with gay leaders like Harvey Milk, the only evidence I can find that shows Carter “supported gay rights” was his public support in defeating California’s Proposition 6 amendment, which Reagan also publicly opposed: https://www.historynewsnetwork.org/blog/5539

Regarding abortion, Carter was personally against abortion his entire life. Prior to Trump, he probably did more than any previous president to stop abortions with the Hyde (a Republican, by the way) Amendment: https://www.ncregister.com/news/pro...o-jimmy-carter-to-save-the-hyde-amendment?amp
 
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