Verses IFBs ignore when reading their Bibles.

[bgwilkinson]

Here is a good one you don't hear much about.

Mat 23:27  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

This is your typical rule keeping proud IFB.

Applies only to the proud IFBs.

 

[bgwilkinson]

For those Judaizers that are trying to keep the Aaronic priesthood alive in their church.

Act 23:3  Then said Paul unto him, God shall smite thee, thou whited wall: for sittest thou to judge me after the law, and commandest me to be smitten contrary to the law?

 

[PappaBear]

I love that topic.  Something you often miss is the context of where you cherry-pick your verses from.

Matt 23:23  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

And earlier, in our LORD's rebuke of the scribes and pharisees who make the word of God of no effect (look like a familiar image in the mirror?), He said they were the hypocrites...

Matt 15:
7  Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8  This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9  But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

 

[bgwilkinson]

I love that topic.  Something you often miss is the context of where you cherry-pick your verses from.

Matt 23:23  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

And earlier, in our LORD's rebuke of the scribes and pharisees who make the word of God of no effect (look like a familiar image in the mirror?), He said they were the hypocrites...

Matt 15:
7  Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8  This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9  But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Thanks, you pick a good one there.

This is one of the major problems infecting IFBs.

9  But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

 

[PappaBear]

No, that is the problem of those who consistently reject an unchangeable word of God and worship at the feet of mortal men and their "scholarship."  We, on the other hand, teach that the Bible is a book to be lived, God's commands to be obeyed.  You  just cherry pick some proof-texts for vanity, and promote the writings of "the fathers" over the words of God.

 

[subllibrm]

9  But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

The issue is fences. The law was hard. It was impossible. No one could obey it completely. Even so the Jews worked to make it possible by building fences that would separate them from the risk of failing. Eventually these fences became the measure rather than the law. They fooled themselves into believing they could keep the impossible law by adhering to rules of their own making.  And with that came pride. They were proud of how holy they were because they obeyed all of those man made "fence" rules. They were proud that they were better at staying inside the fences than the next guy. They became obsessed with how people saw them on the outside rather than what God saw on the inside.

 

[bgwilkinson]

9  But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

The issue is fences. The law was hard. It was impossible. No one could obey it completely. Even so the Jews worked to make it possible by building fences that would separate them from the risk of failing. Eventually these fences became the measure rather than the law. They fooled themselves into believing they could keep the impossible law by adhering to rules of their own making.  And with that came pride. They were proud of how holy they were because they obeyed all of those man made "fence" rules. They were proud that they were better at staying inside the fences than the next guy. They became obsessed with how people saw them on the outside rather than what God saw on the inside.

This sounds like a description of many IFBs I know and have Known.

Nicely stated.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Well here is another one that you are not likely to hear as a sermon text.
We could call it the sin of birth control.

The whole of Gen 38 would make most IFBs uneasy if they were to speak on it.

Gen 38:8  And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
Gen 38:9  And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
Gen 38:10  And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.

 

[prophet]

Well here is another one that you are not likely to hear as a sermon text.
We could call it the sin of birth control.

The whole of Gen 38 would make most IFBs uneasy if they were to speak on it.

Gen 38:8  And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
Gen 38:9  And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
Gen 38:10  And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.

Favorite sermon I've heard on it, was a speech by Teddy Roosevelt.

Yes, birth control is opposed to faith, and apparently angers God greatly.


Earnestly Contend

 

[Bo]

Well here is another one that you are not likely to hear as a sermon text.
We could call it the sin of birth control.

The whole of Gen 38 would make most IFBs uneasy if they were to speak on it.

Gen 38:8  And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
Gen 38:9  And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
Gen 38:10  And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.

the "birth control" wasn't what made God angry...it was the disobedience   

I don't believe that any (pre fertilization) birth control is sinful

 

[bgwilkinson]

Well here is another one that you are not likely to hear as a sermon text.
We could call it the sin of birth control.

The whole of Gen 38 would make most IFBs uneasy if they were to speak on it.

Gen 38:8  And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
Gen 38:9  And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
Gen 38:10  And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.

Favorite sermon I've heard on it, was a speech by Teddy Roosevelt.

Yes, birth control is opposed to faith, and apparently angers God greatly.


Earnestly Contend

Teddy Roosevelt was an IFB?

 

[prophet]

Well here is another one that you are not likely to hear as a sermon text.
We could call it the sin of birth control.

The whole of Gen 38 would make most IFBs uneasy if they were to speak on it.

Gen 38:8  And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
Gen 38:9  And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
Gen 38:10  And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.

Favorite sermon I've heard on it, was a speech by Teddy Roosevelt.

Yes, birth control is opposed to faith, and apparently angers God greatly.


Earnestly Contend

Teddy Roosevelt was an IFB?

Not sure why you asked this.



Earnestly Contend

 

[bgwilkinson]

Well here is another one that you are not likely to hear as a sermon text.
We could call it the sin of birth control.

The whole of Gen 38 would make most IFBs uneasy if they were to speak on it.

Gen 38:8  And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
Gen 38:9  And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
Gen 38:10  And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.

the "birth control" wasn't what made God angry...it was the disobedience   

I don't believe that any (pre fertilization) birth control is sinful

We have a disagreement, one says sinful other says not sinful.

Are there any scriptures to back up either side?

 

[prophet]

Well here is another one that you are not likely to hear as a sermon text.
We could call it the sin of birth control.

The whole of Gen 38 would make most IFBs uneasy if they were to speak on it.

Gen 38:8  And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
Gen 38:9  And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
Gen 38:10  And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.

the "birth control" wasn't what made God angry...it was the disobedience   

I don't believe that any (pre fertilization) birth control is sinful

We have a disagreement, one says sinful other says not sinful.

Are there any scriptures to back up either side?

I said "apparently", because you had already quoted the Scripture that "apparently" showed God angry with a man attempting to avoid reproduction during copulation.

Whatsoever is not of Faith, is Sin, is it not?

You can convolute whatever you want to, after that, Bo, (I know I'm answering BGW), but you are just giving your own personal "beliefs", created of necessity, I'm sure.

All I'm saying is...apparently God doesn't appreciate our attempts at interfering with His plans.....
So I let this shape MY practice.
I've never once mentioned it in a sermon, there is no doctrinal foundation for it.

IOW: we have a debate thats only answer lies in 'what the Bible doesn't say' about a subject, hence, we have no debate.

Earnestly Contend

 

[bgwilkinson]

Well here is another one that you are not likely to hear as a sermon text.
We could call it the sin of birth control.

The whole of Gen 38 would make most IFBs uneasy if they were to speak on it.

Gen 38:8  And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
Gen 38:9  And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
Gen 38:10  And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.

Favorite sermon I've heard on it, was a speech by Teddy Roosevelt.

Yes, birth control is opposed to faith, and apparently angers God greatly.


Earnestly Contend

Teddy Roosevelt was an IFB?

Not sure why you asked this.



Earnestly Contend

My surprise was that you heard Teddy Roosevelt give a speech.

I remember hearing FDR on the radio. We listened to him when I was young. I was always fearful the Germans were coming to kill me, even though my family was part German.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Prophet said, "Yes, birth control is opposed to faith, and apparently angers God greatly."

This has been my view throughout my married life. My wife and I always trusted God to give us those children that He desired we have, and not have here on earth, as some have died.

I do not think I could prove from the Bible that birth control is sin in any or all its forms, but in light of scriptures such as Gen 38, which gives one great pause, I have always believe that it is not pleasing to the LORD to decide whether or not to have children.

Lo, children are an heritage of the Lord,.... As all success, safety, and the blessings of life, depend on the providence of God; so this very great blessing is a gift of his; having children, and those good ones, as the Targum interprets it; for of such only can it be understood: so, in a spiritual sense, the children of Christ, the antitypical Solomon, are the gifts of his heavenly Father to him; his portion and inheritance, and a goodly heritage he esteems them;

and the fruit of the womb is his reward; "fruit" is the same with "children" in the preceding clause; see Luk 1:42; a reward he gives to good men, not of debt, but of grace; the Targum,

"a reward of good works:''

so regenerate persons are a reward to Christ, of his sufferings and death, Isa 53:10.

"Nascitur ad fructum mulier", Claudian. in Eutrop. l. 1. v. 331.

 

[prophet]

Well here is another one that you are not likely to hear as a sermon text.
We could call it the sin of birth control.

The whole of Gen 38 would make most IFBs uneasy if they were to speak on it.

Gen 38:8  And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
Gen 38:9  And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
Gen 38:10  And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.

Favorite sermon I've heard on it, was a speech by Teddy Roosevelt.

Yes, birth control is opposed to faith, and apparently angers God greatly.


Earnestly Contend

Teddy Roosevelt was an IFB?

Not sure why you asked this.



Earnestly Contend

My surprise was that you heard Teddy Roosevelt give a speech.

I remember hearing FDR on the radio. We listened to him when I was young. I was always fearful the Germans were coming to kill me, even though my family was part German.

It was very hard to hear audio copy, nevertheless, someone preserved it.

Earnestly Contend

 

[Bo]

Well here is another one that you are not likely to hear as a sermon text.
We could call it the sin of birth control.

The whole of Gen 38 would make most IFBs uneasy if they were to speak on it.

Gen 38:8  And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
Gen 38:9  And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
Gen 38:10  And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.

the "birth control" wasn't what made God angry...it was the disobedience   

I don't believe that any (pre fertilization) birth control is sinful

We have a disagreement, one says sinful other says not sinful.

Are there any scriptures to back up either side?

I personally believe that birth control as long as its pre fertilization is not sinful....I don't know any scripture really to back it up so I cannot say for certain....its just a belief 

I will look into it and see if I can find scripture to support it or otherwise educate me to make me change my mind...

I was primarily saying that in this specific situation....it wasn't the prevention of reproduction that God was angry about....it was the fact that God commanded him to do something....and he didn't do it....so in this situation it was just the disobedience that angered God....not the prevention of pregnancy

 

[prophet]

Prophet said, "Yes, birth control is opposed to faith, and apparently angers God greatly."

This has been my view throughout my married life. My wife and I always trusted God to give us those children that He desired we have, and not have here on earth, as some have died.

I do not think I could prove from the Bible that birth control is sin in any or all its forms, but in light of scriptures such as Gen 38, which gives one great pause, I have always believe that it is not pleasing to the LORD to decide whether or not to have children.

Lo, children are an heritage of the Lord,.... As all success, safety, and the blessings of life, depend on the providence of God; so this very great blessing is a gift of his; having children, and those good ones, as the Targum interprets it; for of such only can it be understood: so, in a spiritual sense, the children of Christ, the antitypical Solomon, are the gifts of his heavenly Father to him; his portion and inheritance, and a goodly heritage he esteems them;

and the fruit of the womb is his reward; "fruit" is the same with "children" in the preceding clause; see Luk 1:42; a reward he gives to good men, not of debt, but of grace; the Targum,

"a reward of good works:''

so regenerate persons are a reward to Christ, of his sufferings and death, Isa 53:10.

"Nascitur ad fructum mulier", Claudian. in Eutrop. l. 1. v. 331.

It has allowed my Catholic M.I.L. to tolerate me, to know that her daughter is  following God's heart concerning this.
Of course she has the wrong motivation, but, has not been offended from the Gospel, because of our emphatic stand.

The only people who give me grief about it, are social/ religious liberals, and IFB sycophants.


Earnestly Contend

 

[PappaBear]

Prophet said, "Yes, birth control is opposed to faith, and apparently angers God greatly."

This has been my view throughout my married life. My wife and I always trusted God to give us those children that He desired we have, and not have here on earth, as some have died.

I do not think I could prove from the Bible that birth control is sin in any or all its forms, but in light of scriptures such as Gen 38, which gives one great pause, I have always believe that it is not pleasing to the LORD to decide whether or not to have children.

Lo, children are an heritage of the Lord,.... As all success, safety, and the blessings of life, depend on the providence of God; so this very great blessing is a gift of his; having children, and those good ones, as the Targum interprets it; for of such only can it be understood: so, in a spiritual sense, the children of Christ, the antitypical Solomon, are the gifts of his heavenly Father to him; his portion and inheritance, and a goodly heritage he esteems them;

and the fruit of the womb is his reward; "fruit" is the same with "children" in the preceding clause; see Luk 1:42; a reward he gives to good men, not of debt, but of grace; the Targum,

"a reward of good works:''

so regenerate persons are a reward to Christ, of his sufferings and death, Isa 53:10.

"Nascitur ad fructum mulier", Claudian. in Eutrop. l. 1. v. 331.

If I am not mistaken, I think John R Rice also had a similar view in his book on The Home, Courtship and Marriage.