What about church fellowships?

[Tanner]

As I have said before I left Open Door and Bob Ross a year or so ago.  Toward the end of my time there the church fellowships became so complicated and miserable that I stopped going to them. 

First you had to have a ticket from Sunday School to eat.  No Sunday, school no lunch.  Then there were all the rules and all those people willing to enforce them.  I am not even joking when I say there was a man with a bullhorn barking orders at everyone, get in this line, go over there, do this, do that. 

They would only allow eight people at a time in the food line and parents and kids could not go together.  I went through the line and picked up two plates, one for me, one for my son.  That is not allowed first I needed my sons ticket second he had to go in the kids line.  Kids could only eat hot dogs and adults could only eat brisket.  If an adult did not like barbecue and wanted a hot dog that was too bad not allowed. 

It became so miserable that we stop going to them. My question was this type of control brought in by Bob Ross or had we just gotten that bad on our own? Was WHBC this bad?

 

[Just me]

As I have said before I left Open Door and Bob Ross a year or so ago.  Toward the end of my time there the church fellowships became so complicated and miserable that I stopped going to them. 

First you had to have a ticket from Sunday School to eat.  No Sunday, school no lunch.  Then there were all the rules and all those people willing to enforce them.  I am not even joking when I say there was a man with a bullhorn barking orders at everyone, get in this line, go over there, do this, do that. 

They would only allow eight people at a time in the food line and parents and kids could not go together.  I went through the line and picked up two plates, one for me, one for my son.  That is not allowed first I needed my sons ticket second he had to go in the kids line.  Kids could only eat hot dogs and adults could only eat brisket.  If an adult did not like barbecue and wanted a hot dog that was too bad not allowed. 

It became so miserable that we stop going to them. My question was this type of control brought in by Bob Ross or had we just gotten that bad on our own? Was WHBC this bad?

It is all about the control baby!!!  Power games is all it is.

No it was not that way at WHBC.  Youth confernece was close but not quite that bad.

 

[TruthBearer]

As I have said before I left Open Door and Bob Ross a year or so ago.  Toward the end of my time there the church fellowships became so complicated and miserable that I stopped going to them. 

First you had to have a ticket from Sunday School to eat.  No Sunday, school no lunch.  Then there were all the rules and all those people willing to enforce them.  I am not even joking when I say there was a man with a bullhorn barking orders at everyone, get in this line, go over there, do this, do that. 

They would only allow eight people at a time in the food line and parents and kids could not go together.  I went through the line and picked up two plates, one for me, one for my son.  That is not allowed first I needed my sons ticket second he had to go in the kids line.  Kids could only eat hot dogs and adults could only eat brisket.  If an adult did not like barbecue and wanted a hot dog that was too bad not allowed. 

It became so miserable that we stop going to them. My question was this type of control brought in by Bob Ross or had we just gotten that bad on our own? Was WHBC this bad?

That is one thing I have noticed about other churches when they have a luncheon. There is never any mention of needing a ticket to eat. They always just invite anyone that wants to come, no charge.

With Windsorites there is always a charge to eat, some people were even accused of stealing donuts after soul winning on Saturday mornings after the service was over and they had left over donuts.

They would throw them away if nobody ate them and they spent a whopping $20.00 on a couple dozen (maybe 3 dozen) donuts every Saturday, that almost made the church go broke if people didn't spend the 50 cents for a donut and cup of juice.

JAV always said it takes time and money to help people but not his money yours.

 

[Tanner]

There was no charge but you had to be in Sunday school to get a ticket. 

 

[Walt]

As I have said before I left Open Door and Bob Ross a year or so ago.  Toward the end of my time there the church fellowships became so complicated and miserable that I stopped going to them. 

First you had to have a ticket from Sunday School to eat.  No Sunday, school no lunch.  Then there were all the rules and all those people willing to enforce them.  I am not even joking when I say there was a man with a bullhorn barking orders at everyone, get in this line, go over there, do this, do that. 

They would only allow eight people at a time in the food line and parents and kids could not go together.  I went through the line and picked up two plates, one for me, one for my son.  That is not allowed first I needed my sons ticket second he had to go in the kids line.  Kids could only eat hot dogs and adults could only eat brisket.  If an adult did not like barbecue and wanted a hot dog that was too bad not allowed. 

It became so miserable that we stop going to them. My question was this type of control brought in by Bob Ross or had we just gotten that bad on our own? Was WHBC this bad?

Interesting... that tells a bit on the one in charge; it sounds like he is overly concerned about cheating.  Frequently, those obsessed with other people cheating (to this extent) are doing some cheating on their own, and cannot abide the thought of someone else getting away with it.

I've never been in a church that was quite so controlling... even when I was in an IFBx church, the fellowships weren't that bad.

And, as others have posted, when our current church had fellowships, everyone is invited.

 

[Tanner]

Yes it was the last three fellowships that included, bullhorn, special line, special food, and rules about who could be in line and how many. 

 

[Walt]

Yes it was the last three fellowships that included, bullhorn, special line, special food, and rules about who could be in line and how many.

Indications of something wrong somewhere...

 

[Just me]

Yes it was the last three fellowships that included, bullhorn, special line, special food, and rules about who could be in line and how many.

Throw back to his Youth Conference days at WHBC.  That was the perfect discription of the Tuesday afternoon cookout at Windsor in the Wilds.

Now the bullhorn was a favorite of his

 

[Citadel of Truth]

Sounds like an organization freak gone wild!

 

[TruthBearer]

There was no charge but you had to be in Sunday school to get a ticket.

I am surprised there was no charge it seemed like they charged for everything at WHBC.

 

[SixGreatKids]

An evangelist friend told me something interesting a few years ago.  He'd learned "the greater the control, the greater the cover up".  Interesting coming from an evangelist who had been in a lot of churches!

 

[Tanner]

An evangelist friend told me something interesting a few years ago.  He'd learned "the greater the control, the greater the cover up".  Interesting coming from an evangelist who had been in a lot of churches!

Bob Ross immediately inserted himself in a mass cover-up.  He had nothing to do with the sexual and financial crimes but immediately said "nothing to see here, move along".  He protected those involved and they are still on staff today.  Any of us men that objected were shown the door and then trashed from the pulpit. 

 

[TruthBearer]

An evangelist friend told me something interesting a few years ago.  He'd learned "the greater the control, the greater the cover up".  Interesting coming from an evangelist who had been in a lot of churches!

Bob Ross immediately inserted himself in a mass cover-up.  He had nothing to do with the sexual and financial crimes but immediately said "nothing to see here, move along".  He protected those involved and they are still on staff today.  Any of us men that objected were shown the door and then trashed from the pulpit.

Every time a pastor trashes someone from the pulpit I think of this quote that is credited to Eleanor Roosevelt

"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."

 

[Tanner]

I was talking to a pastor friend of mine and was telling him how Ross blamed anyone that left for not backing authority.  Ross would say our kids lives will end up shipwrecked, and out of God's will.  The pastor said that is straight out of the Jim Vineyard playbook. 

 

[Walt]

An evangelist friend told me something interesting a few years ago.  He'd learned "the greater the control, the greater the cover up".  Interesting coming from an evangelist who had been in a lot of churches!

Bob Ross immediately inserted himself in a mass cover-up.  He had nothing to do with the sexual and financial crimes but immediately said "nothing to see here, move along".  He protected those involved and they are still on staff today.  Any of us men that objected were shown the door and then trashed from the pulpit.

In our situation, people that left were "trashed from the pulpit" because the power structure did not want any of their friends still in the church to talk to them and find out either why they left or what they knew. It's the people who have done something wrong that have something to cover up.

 

[TruthBearer]

I was talking to a pastor friend of mine and was telling him how Ross blamed anyone that left for not backing authority.  Ross would say our kids lives will end up shipwrecked, and out of God's will.  The pastor said that is straight out of the Jim Vineyard playbook.

I once heard a member of WHBC say they would support authority even if the authority was wrong because we are to obey those that have authority over us. I think they are coming around now because although they are still members of WHBC today they have visited other churches recently. There is hope for them.

 

[Just me]

I was talking to a pastor friend of mine and was telling him how Ross blamed anyone that left for not backing authority.  Ross would say our kids lives will end up shipwrecked, and out of God's will.  The pastor said that is straight out of the Jim Vineyard playbook.

I once heard a member of WHBC say they would support authority even if the authority was wrong because we are to obey those that have authority over us. I think they are coming around now because although they are still members of WHBC today they have visited other churches recently. There is hope for them.

It was that way for my family.  It takes time for the scales of the facade of the cult mentality to be removed.  But it does go away and the Light of the truth of the situation does come on for many people in time.  Especially when all you friends have walked.

That is encoraging to hear.

 

[BALAAM]

I know that most of you on this forum are from or close to WHBC. I realize that most of you don't really know what happened with jack schaap and fbch. JFYI, jack did not just happen to slip and fall in a couple of months time with a young girl. He was very wierd for a long time and did MANY extremely unethical and bizarre things to staff people and employees for quite a while. When any of them would try to go to any of the deacons to let them know what had happened the attitude was always, "I don't want to discuss anything negative about my preacher."

Now, the whole sordid mess up there could possibly have been avoided if someone in authority would have taken the time to listen. I feel absolutely no sympathy for the church and leadership because none of them were willing to face the truth even though they knew something was wrong. I feel the same about Windsor Hills. How can anyone stand in the pulpit and tell folks to stand for God and stand for what it right when they won't do it in the church?

 

[Tanner]

I know that most of you on this forum are from or close to WHBC. I realize that most of you don't really know what happened with jack schaap and fbch. JFYI, jack did not just happen to slip and fall in a couple of months time with a young girl. He was very wierd for a long time and did MANY extremely unethical and bizarre things to staff people and employees for quite a while. When any of them would try to go to any of the deacons to let them know what had happened the attitude was always, "I don't want to discuss anything negative about my preacher."

Now, the whole sordid mess up there could possibly have been avoided if someone in authority would have taken the time to listen. I feel absolutely no sympathy for the church and leadership because none of them were willing to face the truth even though they knew something was wrong. I feel the same about Windsor Hills. How can anyone stand in the pulpit and tell folks to stand for God and stand for what it right when they won't do it in the church?

I said all along that jack Schaap did not get caught the first time.  It's a pattern of looking the other way and men being blinded by managodery.  It becomes so destructive that they can't stop until something bad happens.  The best thing that could happen to Tom Vineyard is that he's forced to step down so he can step outside the bubble so things don't get worse.

 

[Just me]

I know that most of you on this forum are from or close to WHBC. I realize that most of you don't really know what happened with jack schaap and fbch. JFYI, jack did not just happen to slip and fall in a couple of months time with a young girl. He was very wierd for a long time and did MANY extremely unethical and bizarre things to staff people and employees for quite a while. When any of them would try to go to any of the deacons to let them know what had happened the attitude was always, "I don't want to discuss anything negative about my preacher."

Now, the whole sordid mess up there could possibly have been avoided if someone in authority would have taken the time to listen. I feel absolutely no sympathy for the church and leadership because none of them were willing to face the truth even though they knew something was wrong. I feel the same about Windsor Hills. How can anyone stand in the pulpit and tell folks to stand for God and stand for what it right when they won't do it in the church?

I said all along that jack Schaap did not get caught the first time.  It's a pattern of looking the other way and men being blinded by managodery.  It becomes so destructive that they can't stop until something bad happens.  The best thing that could happen to Tom Vineyard is that he's forced to step down so he can step outside the bubble so things don't get worse.

What I am going to say is obvious to the most casual observer I know.  The best thing that can happen to Tom Vineyard is for him to get all things right with the God he claims to represent from the pulpit and in his life.  He is on a path to doing a very harmful thing to himself, his wife and his kids. Being the pastor at WHBC or not being the pastor will not change the road he is on.  I know many a person who has been saying that about him for years and it only seems to be stepping up even more in the latter years.

Now for WHBC, the best and only thing that should happen is for Tom to be removed as pastor and a non-Vinyardite become pastor.  Only then will WHBC have a chance at being the light house to Okc it should be.