What about church fellowships?

[Walt]

I know that most of you on this forum are from or close to WHBC. I realize that most of you don't really know what happened with jack schaap and fbch. JFYI, jack did not just happen to slip and fall in a couple of months time with a young girl. He was very wierd for a long time and did MANY extremely unethical and bizarre things to staff people and employees for quite a while. When any of them would try to go to any of the deacons to let them know what had happened the attitude was always, "I don't want to discuss anything negative about my preacher."

Now, the whole sordid mess up there could possibly have been avoided if someone in authority would have taken the time to listen. I feel absolutely no sympathy for the church and leadership because none of them were willing to face the truth even though they knew something was wrong. I feel the same about Windsor Hills. How can anyone stand in the pulpit and tell folks to stand for God and stand for what it right when they won't do it in the church?

But this is how they were ALL trained to react by Jack Hyles.  Other people, outside of FBCH; people like Ed Nelson (and others) tried to get him to see the damage he was doing, but he simply wouldn't listen.

 

[Walt]

I know that most of you on this forum are from or close to WHBC. I realize that most of you don't really know what happened with jack schaap and fbch. JFYI, jack did not just happen to slip and fall in a couple of months time with a young girl. He was very wierd for a long time and did MANY extremely unethical and bizarre things to staff people and employees for quite a while. When any of them would try to go to any of the deacons to let them know what had happened the attitude was always, "I don't want to discuss anything negative about my preacher."

Now, the whole sordid mess up there could possibly have been avoided if someone in authority would have taken the time to listen. I feel absolutely no sympathy for the church and leadership because none of them were willing to face the truth even though they knew something was wrong. I feel the same about Windsor Hills. How can anyone stand in the pulpit and tell folks to stand for God and stand for what it right when they won't do it in the church?

I said all along that jack Schaap did not get caught the first time.  It's a pattern of looking the other way and men being blinded by managodery.  It becomes so destructive that they can't stop until something bad happens.  The best thing that could happen to Tom Vineyard is that he's forced to step down so he can step outside the bubble so things don't get worse.

What I am going to say is obvious to the most casual observer I know.  The best thing that can happen to Tom Vineyard is for him to get all things right with the God he claims to represent from the pulpit and in his life.  He is on a path to doing a very harmful thing to himself, his wife and his kids. Being the pastor at WHBC or not being the pastor will not change the road he is on.  I know many a person who has been saying that about him for years and it only seems to be stepping up even more in the latter years.

Now for WHBC, the best and only thing that should happen is for Tom to be removed as pastor and a non-Vinyardite become pastor.  Only then will WHBC have a chance at being the light house to Okc it should be.

Great summary.  In addition, those who have blindly supported Tom Vineyard and/or JAV need to repent and place Jesus Christ on the throne, and de-throne these men they have been following.

 

[Still There]

What is it with Vineyard and Ross?  Have they lost their christian and mental minds?  They are supposed to be helpers and not harmers of the christian faith.  If I was a non-christian or a new christian I would think they were of the Jim Jones type of believeism!!!  But I'm a seasoned Christian and have known Vineyard for a long time - FBC and know of his crazy antics!  Grew up with his kids at least John & Dawn (John's wife).  He got away from his dad quick. I'm surprised both of these NUTS still have followers!