What have you changed?

[JustABigKid]

You know being a part of an IBFx type church for many of my young years I was "indoctrinated" with ideas of how to live our life that really weren't really very Biblical. I had to change my thinking on some things to be more Christlike/Biblical in viewing them.

Example: I have changed my view on standards. Oh my!!! You've changed your standards! some may say. No I personally have not changed what I believe that my family and I should do but changed the way I view standards in others and the church's role. Places like WHBC teach standards like they are the Bible. If you do not follow every single view they have in and out of church you are a heathen. I have come to the understanding that God deals with us on an individual basis to bring us to where he would like us to be for standards. Do I believe we should have standards absolutely! Do I believe the church should have standards absolutely! Do I believe that the church should be able to dictate what you can or can't do outside of church absolutely NOT!

If the church as a whole is doing its job by teaching God's Word the Holy Spirit will move you to wanting to have standards and adopting them for yourself. It is a mandate from God to an individual not a mandate from the church.

Should you adhere to the church's desired standards while at church or church functions absolutely!

I personally had to change my thinking from looking down on people who did not have the same standard I did to simply loving them like Christ would and teaching them God's Word so that they could with the Holy Spirit's guidance decide standards for themselves.

What is something that you changed after leaving an IFBx type church?

 

[Just me]

I personally had to change my thinking from looking down on people who did not have the same standard I did to simply loving them like Christ would and teaching them God's Word so that they could with the Holy Spirit's guidance decide standards for themselves.

What is something that you changed after leaving an IFBx type church?

Good post.  I only put this one paragraph because that sums it all up.  The judgmental attitude that came from years in the IFB system had to be dealt with and I am so glad He did!! 

I personally have allowed myself to go back to being the Christian I was for years before being caught up in the WHBC/OBC way of doing things.  My Youth Director was so awesome years ago and taught me so much.  I got away from it for decades but have realized and gone back to an unclouded thinking.

 

[Walt]

You know being a part of an IBFx type church for many of my young years I was "indoctrinated" with ideas of how to live our life that really weren't really very Biblical. I had to change my thinking on some things to be more Christlike/Biblical in viewing them.

Example: I have changed my view on standards. Oh my!!! You've changed your standards! some may say. No I personally have not changed what I believe that my family and I should do but changed the way I view standards in others and the church's role. Places like WHBC teach standards like they are the Bible. If you do not follow every single view they have in and out of church you are a heathen. I have come to the understanding that God deals with us on an individual basis to bring us to where he would like us to be for standards. Do I believe we should have standards absolutely! Do I believe the church should have standards absolutely! Do I believe that the church should be able to dictate what you can or can't do outside of church absolutely NOT!

If the church as a whole is doing its job by teaching God's Word the Holy Spirit will move you to wanting to have standards and adopting them for yourself. It is a mandate from God to an individual not a mandate from the church.

Should you adhere to the church's desired standards while at church or church functions absolutely!

I personally had to change my thinking from looking down on people who did not have the same standard I did to simply loving them like Christ would and teaching them God's Word so that they could with the Holy Spirit's guidance decide standards for themselves.

What is something that you changed after leaving an IFBx type church?

Excellent post - good, thought-provoking.

I would say that my change was the cause of my leaving the IFBx type church. I could see that some of the people who kept the outward standards had no relationship with Jesus Christ, yet because they were "doing" the "important" things, they were considered spiritual.  Because I didn't play along, I was ostracized; no fellowship invitations, no getting together -- they were afraid that my evident unspirituality would rub off on them or their children. Being naturally proud, I thought that I was somewhat spiritual and deplored the way I was pariah.  I put up with it for quite a long time, just resigned to be considered unspiritual, but then I saw the effects on our kids, and that, plus some other things, was the push to leave.

Even after years away, I'm still surprised when, at the new church, people invite me to anything.

One thing I disagree on: you wrote

Do I believe that the church should be able to dictate what you can or can't do outside of church absolutely NOT

I think that the church should expect their members to show Christian values outside of church; for example, if a  building contractor is a member of the church, he should have a reputation for fairness in the community, and not the reputation of "a sharp operator", or "you need to watch him; he'll steal you blind".

In another area, the Scriptures tell us that our speech should be "always seasoned with grace" -- I would say that this applies outside the church.

The Bible speaks of avoiding worldliness, but where I think so many churches make a mistake is having the pastor define for the people what HE thinks is worldly. What may be worldly for me may not be worldly for a different Christian.  How this applies should be up to the Holy Spirit and the believer, as you indicate.

 

[JustABigKid]

I think that the church should expect their members to show Christian values outside of church; for example, if a  building contractor is a member of the church, he should have a reputation for fairness in the community, and not the reputation of "a sharp operator", or "you need to watch him; he'll steal you blind".

In another area, the Scriptures tell us that our speech should be "always seasoned with grace" -- I would say that this applies outside the church.

The Bible speaks of avoiding worldliness, but where I think so many churches make a mistake is having the pastor define for the people what HE thinks is worldly. What may be worldly for me may not be worldly for a different Christian.  How this applies should be up to the Holy Spirit and the believer, as you indicate.

Hey Walt,

I understand and agree with what you are saying. To be more clear. Yes a church should "expect" their members  to show Christ in the way that they live but the church shouldn't "control" or "dictate".

God expects us to live the way that He gives us in the Bible but he does not "dictate" and force us to. He gives us the choice of free will (which unfortunately too many Christians use it to just simply live like the world and say God will forgive me or God says its ok) on how we want to live.

Too many IFBx type churches instead of simply "expecting" their church members to live like Christ "dictate" it by making them sign an agreement that they "won't go to the movies" or "won't wear pants for ladies" at home or at church while being in some ministry.

This does 2 things:
1. Either they simply won't be a part of a ministry and thus don't serve in the church
2. They will "comply" simply to look spiritual but with the wrong kind of heart.

 

[Just me]

I have changed my church attendance.  I no longer am there every time the door opens as the IFB churches I have been associated with over the years preach and teach.

I listen to many different preachers.  I have realized the IFBers do not have the market on Scripture as the IFB taught me to believe.  I like Joel Osteen and have found him to be different then everyone in my past has claimed. 

I fellowship with any who will.  But yet I am more standoffish then ever before. 

I have changed several of my "beliefs" from Scripture but none of the Fundamentals of the Faith. 

I have also seen that Baptist do not have a market on the Fundamentals of the Faith nor the Baptist Distinctives as I had pounded in my head for decades.

I actually enjoy reading "unapproved" authors.

I listen to music that would make Van Manen roll over in his grave.  Wait he has not died yet.  The old CCM from the 70's is awesome!!!

I fellowship with my adult kids even though we do not always see eye to eye on issues!!!  Big no no at WHBC.  No shunning by me and the spousal unit.

I have not been "door to door Soul Winning" since the day we walked from that place but yet I find myself witnessing to more people about our awesome God!!!

More to come later but that is a few things for now.

 

[FSSL]

I no longer just "get involved."

If a ministry is a time-wasting that requires a tremendous, prolonged and stressful amount of time that does not have a direct purpose, I don't get involved.

 

[JustABigKid]

I no longer just "get involved."

If a ministry is a time-wasting that requires a tremendous, prolonged and stressful amount of time that does not have a direct purpose, I don't get involved.

Agreed. I can remember being run so ragged I couldn't stay awake in church if I wanted to. Now I only get involved in ministries that I want to get involved in and learned to say NO

 

[Walt]

Hey Walt,

I understand and agree with what you are saying. To be more clear. Yes a church should "expect" their members  to show Christ in the way that they live but the church shouldn't "control" or "dictate".

I think I know what you are saying, but the moment the church enforces any expectations, they are "controlling", some would say... to use my illustration, if it became common knowledge that a car salesman was cheating his customers, the church should demand that he make it right or else kick him out.  That is both dictating and controlling.

God expects us to live the way that He gives us in the Bible but he does not "dictate" and force us to. He gives us the choice of free will (which unfortunately too many Christians use it to just simply live like the world and say God will forgive me or God says its ok) on how we want to live.

Too many IFBx type churches instead of simply "expecting" their church members to live like Christ "dictate" it by making them sign an agreement that they "won't go to the movies" or "won't wear pants for ladies" at home or at church while being in some ministry.

Interestingly, I've never had to sign such an agreement to be a member, but my family did whenever we wanted to get into some ministry/service.

This does 2 things:
1. Either they simply won't be a part of a ministry and thus don't serve in the church
2. They will "comply" simply to look spiritual but with the wrong kind of heart.

#2 is what I saw a lot of  -- people were lifted up as "spiritual" because they were conforming, but they had not been transformed by the Holy Spirit.  Thus, some of these so-called "spiritual" people were fooling around with girls in the youth department; others were downright nasty if your bus route picked up "their" riders.

 

[Just me]

I find I am changing my thinking on Creation/Evolution subjects.

I am rethinking several Bible issues also.  Tithing, "Separation & Standards", Pastoral Authority, "Church" and the concept of the Pastor being the CEO as it is in churches in America, Bible study & Bible reading amounts,  Education, 

 

[JustABigKid]

I find I am changing my thiniking on Creation/Evolution subjects.

I am rethinking several Bible issues also.  Tithing, "Seperation & Standards", Pastoral Authority, "Church" and the concept of the Pastor being the CEO as it is in churches in America, Bible study & Bible reading amounts,  Education,

Ok curiosity is killing the cat.... Changes on creation/evolution huh? very interested in hearing more.

 

[Just me]

I find I am changing my thiniking on Creation/Evolution subjects.

I am rethinking several Bible issues also.  Tithing, "Seperation & Standards", Pastoral Authority, "Church" and the concept of the Pastor being the CEO as it is in churches in America, Bible study & Bible reading amounts,  Education,

Ok curiosity is killing the cat.... Changes on creation/evolution huh? very interested in hearing more.

The short answer is I am rethinking the young earth position.  It is one I have held for decades and know the subject pretty well.  Yet I have never been comfortable with it so I am rethinking it.  I have a good friend I worked with years ago whom we always talked over the subject and we have continued over the years.  He is one of those uber intellectual Nuclear Engineers.  He is a good man and a good friend.  I might not change but he makes so many valid points that I am giving it fair consideration. 

If for no other reason, I question everything I was taught in the IFB world.

 

[JustABigKid]

If for no other reason, I question everything I was taught in the IFB world.

Ok I will give you this. I now compare it to the Bible instead of blindly following.

 

[Just me]

If for no other reason, I question everything I was taught in the IFB world.

Ok I will give you this. I now compare it to the Bible instead of blindly following.

Exactly!!  I have always had questions on many things (like I mentioned in the posts above).  The sad part was that there was no one who would talk or even entertain a discussion.  It was always shut up and paddle.  Of course I therefore never fully agreed with the place but never made a scene either.

But now, being out of the influence of that world,  things are so much clearer.