What is the Bible?

I like yours, Mr Heretic.

I might want to add 'when viewed through the Xian gospel as summarized by the ancient Rule of Faith reveal how God has acted....'; and substitute 'maturing' for 'restoring.'
 
Scott, those thoughts are half baked. The heat, onions and carrot would undoubtedly do them good.
 
christundivided said:
If you do not know the history of the term.... then you have no idea how to apply it.

I do know the history of the term. I simply found it irrelevant to rsc2a's question.

I understood what he meant by "the Bible," and despite all your etymolgical pedantry, so did you.

Let me ask you a simple question. Have you ever heard of the book "The Fisherman's Bible"?

I've seen many books titled "The _____ Bible." Neither I, nor anyone else in my experienced, has ever confused them with the Bible.

I'll give you a hint, it doesn't have to do with anything concerning the Scriptures.

In fact, it does - and it only proves my point. Even unbelievers understand the authority the Bible has in the culture because it is purported to be the "word of God." A book titled "The _____ Bible" is claiming to be an definitive volume about _____. In English, "Bible" doesn't merely mean book. It's a literary allusion.
 
Ransom said:
In fact, it does - and it only proves my point. Even unbelievers understand the authority the Bible has in the culture because it is purported to be the "word of God." A book titled "The _____ Bible" is claiming to be an definitive volume about _____. In English, "Bible" doesn't merely mean book. It's a literary allusion.

Funny...... You say the term "Bible" is an term "purported" to be the "word of God"...... You then admit that the term carries a meaning external to the "word of God".

Sure you can say any author is trying to be "authoritative" in anything they write. However, I can tell you.... there are many varying opinions concerning fishing methods.... AND it doesn't matter to me how many people thinks its the "only method". I wouldn't say the same thing about the "Scriptures".

The word "Bible" does mean "book" in English. Albeit.... its use is now obsolete. Hence, my reference to the source of the term. "The Bible" itself is very clear in using the word "Scripture" or "graphe".
 
Scott, it just struck me that you might have skipped down to the link without noticing my attempt to answer the OP. If so, then my perceived offering of the bullet-ed points as a 'simple answer' must have made me look very bone-headed. Which I am. Bone-headed, I mean; but enough so without any extra help.  :)

I offered the link in an attempt to be a good conversation partner.

In the same spirit, I think Cud's distinction is an important one, though perhaps not his offered points.

It is very common to anachronistically read Bible back into the pages of scripture, and to conflate Scripture with Canon. It leads to all sorts of (perhaps ambiguously helpful?), authoritative 'traditions of men.'

For example: recently, in my favorite local used bookstore, two old gentlemen hunkered down in a corner. They were both evangelists of the ‘Old Time’ variety, and the theme of their huddle was the miserable state of the modern Xian. I eavesdropped as one story of lamentation after another was swapped. Finally,  the shorter gentleman summarized the situation adequately. He described an obviously compromised individual who approached him after a service to express how wonderful the message was.  I listened with interest. An appreciation for the old preacher’s message seemed a counter-intuitive reason for him to label the ‘audience member’ (his word) a fraud. Turns out that the proffered approval wasn’t the problem. The problem was that the man had no Bible with him. How did he know that the message was any good! Apparently, compliments from this sort of Xian were simply affronts to the godly.

That strikes me as an unbiblical sort of judgment to make- especially on the authority of the Bible. I think it comes from the conflation I've mentioned. The text of our Bibles knows nothing of Bibles.

* BIBLE: Does a bound, portable book, which is available for anyone to own for the sake of their own personal use appear anywhere in scripture?

Obviously not.  Why?

Books are a relatively recent historical development. Mass printed books are even more recent, yet. Paper; printing- not to mention the education programs necessary to make literacy a common good… are all recent arivals. When our scripture was written, the required technology was still many centuries away. ‘Books’ were quite literally collections of scrolls, hand copied at a laborious rate. Priceless and difficult to store and transport.

Ok; so there’s no book-available to everyone and anyone- in the Bible.

But perhaps more to the point, the Bible is not only a bound book. It is an authoritatively bounded book. It is a closed canon.

* CLOSED CANON: Does a closed Canon appear in scripture?

Obviously not. Why not?

The New Testament is the expansion of scripture. The only church presented in scripture is a church with an open Canon. In addition, nowhere in scripture are we told what is or isn’t scripture; nor are we told that the writing of scripture would definitely cease. We have authoritative positions on these things, but we didn’t learn them from scripture.

It is commonplace to substitute the word ‘Canon’ for ‘Scripture,’ but the words refer to different things. Most religions have sacred scripture, but very few have a definitive closed Canon. I know of only three, and they are all related: Judaism, Xianity and Islam.

* SACRED SCRIPTURE : Do fluid, fuzzily defined and growing collections of texts, which religious communities use for sacred purposes, appear in scripture?

Of course. For believers both ancients and modern, scripture is understood to be sacred scripture.

Okay. So scripture knows of scripture, but not a closed Canon or an individually available volume to which persons might (must?) go to check up on things. Is that a big deal? Is the distinction worth noting? Would nullifying either of the last two in the life of the church- especially the Evangelical tradition- be a big deal? Scripture undefined and open to addition! Scripture not available to the average believer unless mediated by another!
 
christundivided said:
The word "Bible" does mean "book" in English. Albeit.... its use is now obsolete.

Obsolete? Millions, if not billions of people, know what the Bible is, and don't take the word to mean an arbitrary book.

In fact, this very conversation is a tacit admission by you that you knew exactly which book the OP was referring to. All this pedantry of yours is transparent intellectual dishonesty.
 
Chauntecleer said:
Scott, it just struck me that you might have skipped down to the link without noticing my attempt to answer the OP. If so, then my perceived offering of the bullet-ed points as a 'simple answer' must have made me lolorem ipsum dolor sit amet consectetur adipiscing elit donec at dolor urna phasellus a augue dictum interdum sapien vitae ullamcorper metus etiam tristique eget ligula nec mollis maecenas ac nibh mauris suspendisse ultricies cursus tortor in suscipit nunc nec vehicula mauris quisque vehicula dui a erat iaculis tincidunt suspendisse dignissim auctor porta morbi tristique commodo turpis nec vestibulum morbi hendrerit accumsan est vel adipiscing e

Hear that loud dragging sound? That's the town's very bored soup-maker, going back for his cauldron. It nearly drowns out the sounds of my yawns.
 
You’re bored.

Hmmm. 

Don't doubt its true and deserved, but it does seem an odd criticism. It will take a while to get to know people around here. Until I do, well… I don’t. You see what I mean.

Anyway, we’ll get along much better now that I understand what you require. On the plus side, amusing you ought to be easier than worrying about intelligent conversation. I’ll keep something shiny or maybe a treat in my pocket.
 
Chauntecleer said:
Don't doubt its true and deserved, but it does seem an odd criticism.

The question in the OP was pretty simple, and didn't require two posts of ponderous noodling.

Hope that's more helpful to you.
 
Ponderous noodling. I agree that like all acts of charitable personal interaction, real conversation does take some effort. True nuff.

Simple I think we fundamentally disagree about the nature of reality- whether the simplest of things ought to fill us with wonder. ‘Fear in a handful of dust’ as Eliot put it.

Required, reductionistic and utilitarian. I susp….

….Scott, you trickster.  :) I almost forgot.

Squirrel!
 
Ransom said:
christundivided said:
The word "Bible" does mean "book" in English. Albeit.... its use is now obsolete.

Obsolete? Millions, if not billions of people, know what the Bible is, and don't take the word to mean an arbitrary book.

In fact, this very conversation is a tacit admission by you that you knew exactly which book the OP was referring to. All this pedantry of yours is transparent intellectual dishonesty.

I'm not being intellectually dishonest at all..... and NO.... I didn't know which "Book" he was talking about. I've read many different ones. Ones that varied based on translation and some that had entire chapters removed or added based on individual perspective. NO. I didn't know exactly which one the OP was referencing. Also, I never said the word indicated an arbitrary choice.

Here, let me put in perfect perspective for you

Which Bible Ransom? Just narrow it down to one specific "book/Bible"? Care to answer?

While you're at it.... Why don't you just go ahead and write your first article supporting KJVOism? You're buying into the idea that the term "Bible" is a complete and exhaustive reference to one book that is always the same..... regardless of who picks it up to read it. The collection and reproduction of an exhaustive reference of "Scripture" has been always been in the "eye of the beholder".



 
Ransom said:
christundivided said:
I didn't know which "Book" he was talking about.

I don't believe you.

Believe what you want.

By the way..... nice dodge. Patch O'Houlihan must be very proud of you.
 
christundivided said:
I didn't know which "Book" he was talking about.
Only a complete idiot or a liar would make that statement on a Christian forum. And I for one don't think you are a liar
 
Top