What Must I Do to be Saved? John R. Rice

abcaines said:
I think he was debunking the notion that repentance was weeping over sin. He used that to contrast what genuine repentance is. Certainly a worthy subject when presenting the Gospel.
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JRR had a broad reach even among those were more "Pentecostal" oriented so I am wondering if he was addressing some of the concerns he was seeing in groups such as this? As I was saying, there has to be some sort of historical context to his statement.
 
Baptist Renegade said:
Ok, not saying I disagree but I have a story for you:

I remember listening to one of John Gerstner's "Handout Theology" lectures where he mentioned a small group in his Church who were complaining that they had been "Waiting over ten years for God to grant them repentance and faith to believe!" Perhaps I heard this wrong but this really does not sit right with me! Seems perhaps they were neglecting the "Man's Responsibility" part to "Repent and believe the Gospel?"

Yes, we are "Born not of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man but of God" and we are "Born of corruptible seed by the Word of God" but we are also responsible to repent and believe the Gospel!

I have been looking around for a transcript of this and hoping I would hear the lecture again at a later date on Refnet. I didn't listen all the way through and am thinking perhaps there was a "Punch-Line" somewhere that I missed?
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There is no punchline. Calvinism is a most humbling doctrine. It is, after all, just another name for the Gospel.
 
Huk said:
So you’re an unadulterated Calvinist?
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Have I ever left any question ? But what do YOU mean by 'Calvinist'? Calvinism has never been codified. The label is only consistently applied to those who believe God is sovereign in salvation. IOW, those who believe in Predestination. It doesn't matter what one believes about any of the Five Points. If one believes God had to flip the switch, turn on the light, and stuff you into the Fold, then you're a Calvinist.
 
Ekklesian said:
You have as much say in your second birth as you did in your first. And, in fact, bringing you into this world was wholly the work of others. The travail was your mother's, and it was all her's.

Bringing you into the New World was wholly the work of Christ. The travail was all His.
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By extension, what say did any have in his own circumcision?
 
Ekklesian said:
There is no punchline. Calvinism is a most humbling doctrine. It is, after all, just another name for the Gospel.
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Do you believe someone needs to "Wait around for God to grant them repentance and faith to believe?"

This smack of Hyper-Calvinism. Gerstner was not "Hyper-Cal" according to my understanding so I am thinking I probably missed something important in his lecture.
 
Ekklesian said:
Have I ever left any question ? But what do YOU mean by 'Calvinist'? Calvinism has never been codified. The label is only consistently applied to those who believe God is sovereign in salvation. IOW, those who believe in Predestination. It doesn't matter what one believes about any of the Five Points. If one believes God had to flip the switch, turn on the light, and stuff you into the Fold, then you're a Calvinist.
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Then there’s literally no point in evangelizing. And saying “God commands it,” doesn’t change the ultimate outcome of the elect, hence it’s ultimately pointless. The same can be said for prayer. If all acts are predestined, no amount of prayer will change anything. Seems rather bleak and hopeless, IMO.
 
Huk said:
Then there’s literally no point in evangelizing. And saying “God commands it,” doesn’t change the ultimate outcome of the elect, hence it’s ultimately pointless.
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Before you and Ekk go off on a rabbit trail over this, allow me to interject my two cents:

We proclaim the gospel because GOD COMMANDED US TO! God has chosen the foolishness of preaching to save those who believe and woe unto us if we preach not the Gospel of Christ!

Everyone alive today who claims faith in Christ does so because they heard the WORD OF GOD PREACHED BY SOMEONE!

Now go get some Gospel tracts and OBEY THE LORD's Command! :cool:
 
I think the slope from true Calvinism to Nietzsche’s nihilism, isn’t too steep. In fact, I believe one could draw some parallels rather easily.
 
Baptist Renegade said:
Before you and Ekk go off on a rabbit trail over this, allow me to interject my two cents:

We proclaim the gospel because GOD COMMANDED US TO! God has chosen the foolishness of preaching to save those who believe and woe unto us if we preach not the Gospel of Christ!

Everyone alive today who claims faith in Christ does so because they heard the WORD OF GOD PREACHED BY SOMEONE!

Now go get some Gospel tracts and OBEY THE LORD's Command! :cool:
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Philosophically, there’s no point if predestination is true. Do you believe in randomness? Why eternally condemn a person who wasn’t predestined at birth?
 
Huk said:
Philosophically, there’s no point if predestination is true. Do you believe in randomness? Why eternally condemn a person who wasn’t predestined at birth?
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I don't pay much attention to philosophy, I try to stick with the scriptures although I do not always understand everything fully. God is sovereign in who he saves (a cold-hard fact) and I am commanded to proclaim the Gospel (also very much a fact).
 
Baptist Renegade said:
I don't pay much attention to philosophy, I try to stick with the scriptures although I do not always understand everything fully. God is sovereign in who he saves (a cold-hard fact) and I am commanded to proclaim the Gospel (also very much a fact).
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So, what you're saying is, you aren't called to understand... you are called only to go and let God sort them out.
 
Huk said:
Then there’s literally no point in evangelizing. And saying “God commands it,” doesn’t change the ultimate outcome of the elect, hence it’s ultimately pointless. The same can be said for prayer. If all acts are predestined, no amount of prayer will change anything. Seems rather bleak and hopeless, IMO.
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You're forgetting the primary point.

Love.

A real Calvinist loves the Gospel, and can speak of little else. He also loves his fellow man. Love is the point in evangelization.
 
Baptist Renegade said:
Do you believe someone needs to "Wait around for God to grant them repentance and faith to believe?"
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I've never heard that said, but I'm not surprised. Tares growing among the wheat are bound to pick up on some of the jargon. The elect can't wait, but take the Kingdom by force. Matthew 11:12
 
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