What Must I Do to be Saved? John R. Rice

Leatherneck0311 said:
You have cut off ( taken out of context) every scripture taught by Jesus and the apostles that disagrees with Calvinism. Your loss not mine.
Click to expand...
You enjoy just making up crap without any sort of evidence, don't you? Eating all those crayons has made your brain rot.
 
Ransom said:
You enjoy just making up crap without any sort of evidence, don't you? Eating all those crayons has made your brain rot.
Click to expand...
I trust and believe “all” scripture not just the verses that I like or think supports my beliefs unlike Calvinist. Calvinist like Roman Catholics change context, and meanings of words that prove Calvinism is wrong in most of their beliefs. Calvinist have changed the gospel and placed unscriptural qualifiers on the gospel just like Roman Catholics. The apple does not fall far from the tree.
 
Ransom said:
Without support, this is no better than your opinion, and I didn't ask.
Click to expand...
Ransom said:
Without support, this is no better than your opinion, and I didn't ask.
Click to expand...
You’re welcome !
Unchecked Copy Box
Eph 1:13 - In whom yealso trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: inwhom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed withthat holy Spirit of promise,
 
Ransom said:
BR asked what Mueller believed, and that's what I answered. Whether or not you take it seriously is not my problem.
Click to expand...
I never said it was YOUR PROBLEM. You put down a post and people are free to respond to any post with opinions and thoughts on the content. I did so. You're also free and I don't hold you accountable to respond to anything I've shared. Sorry but you do seem hyper sensitive and take things waaaaay to personally. I NEVER insinuated that you have to answer for Mueller so relax.
 
Rockson said:
I never said it was YOUR PROBLEM. You put down a post and people are free to respond to any post with opinions and thoughts on the content. I did so.
Click to expand...
You posted, and I responded. Unwad your panties.
 
Ransom said:
From George Mueller's own pen:

I had been much opposed to the doctrines of election, particular redemption, and final persevering grace; so much so that, a few days after my arrival at Teignmouth, I called election a devilish doctrine. I did not believe that I had brought myself to the Lord, for that was too manifestly false; but yet I held, that I might have resisted finally. And further, I knew nothing about the choice of God's people, and did not believe that the child of God, when once made so, was safe for ever. In my fleshly mind I had repeatedly said, If once I could prove that I am a child of God for ever, I might go back into the world for a year or two, and then return to the Lord, and at last be saved. But now I was brought to examine these precious truths by the word of God. Being made willing to have no glory of my own in the conversion of sinners, but to consider myself merely as an instrument; and being made willing to receive what the Scriptures said; I went to the Word, reading the New Testament from the beginning, with a particular reference to these truths. To my great astonishment I found that the passages which speak decidedly for election and persevering grace, were about four times as many as those which speak apparently against these truths; and even those few, shortly after, when I had examined and understood them, served to confirm me in the above doctrines. (Mueller, A Narrative of Some of the Lord's Dealings with George Müller, Part 1.) (source)​
Click to expand...
Thank you Ransom! I was wondering about how his theology affected his faith and his attitude towards prayer. Whatever his soteriological position, he did not waste much time with doubtful disputations. Perhaps one may find a genuine and effective prayer life when they rest confidently in the sovereignty of God!
 
Baptist Renegade said:
Thank you Ransom! I was wondering about how his theology affected his faith and his attitude towards prayer. Whatever his soteriological position, he did not waste much time with doubtful disputations. Perhaps one may find a genuine and effective prayer life when they rest confidently in the sovereignty of God!
Click to expand...
As for me I think one would be more prone to be more discouraged to pray. The question would always work on their mind why bother praying when all things are ordained anyway.

Granted some or a few rise above this. There are some Calvinists which are strong evangelists. They are this way in spite of what they believe about everything ordained. I think many of them give lip service to their Calvinist beliefs for they act like a non Calvinist.
 
Ekklesian said:
Neither am I, but I am interested in the truth. I made my points and I'm done with the discussion, unless someone engages me further. Joe made an eminently Scriptural argument, and I just pointed out his Calvinistic thinking in a humorous way. It had nothing to do with you.


Good for you.
Click to expand...
Sorry, eKKK...I have NO "calvinistic" thinking. I think Scripture.....period...no matter what you label it.
 
Rockson said:
And you responded by saying it's not your problem. I never said it was. Relax.
Click to expand...
Wow! Another person on here besides eKKK talking about someone else's "panties." This place is getting pervy! ;)
 
Rockson said:
As for me I think one would be more prone to be more discouraged to pray. The question would always work on their mind why bother praying when all things are ordained anyway.

Granted some or a few rise above this. There are some Calvinists which are strong evangelists. They are this way in spite of what they believe about everything ordained. I think many of them give lip service to their Calvinist beliefs for they act like a non Calvinist.
Click to expand...

I think too much analysis of the mechanics of salvation skews our views at times. If an overly mechanistic framework of determinism leads to fatalistic thinking regarding man's will then you are correct about viewing our role in prayer, but on the other side of the (Arminian) aisle is those that believe in Open Theism and that the God of the Universe is merely an "influencer" that is incapable of accomplishing anything that man doesn't want him to do. I think the truth is somewhere in the middle, and is ultimately a paradox/antinomy, a mystery we are incapable of solving.
 
ALAYMAN said:
I think too much analysis of the mechanics of salvation skews our views at times. If an overly mechanistic framework of determinism leads to fatalistic thinking regarding man's will then you are correct about viewing our role in prayer, but on the other side of the (Arminian) aisle is those that believe in Open Theism and that the God of the Universe is merely an "influencer" that is incapable of accomplishing anything that man doesn't want him to do. I think the truth is somewhere in the middle, and is ultimately a paradox/antinomy, a mystery we are incapable of solving.
Click to expand...
I haven't studied too deeply what open theist believe. I don't think they have any problem at all acknowledging that God stands up to rebellious sinners and puts them in their place. Can you claim you've read from them that when God says Depart from me.....that they can stand up and say NO? I've never seen anyone claim that.
 
Rockson said:
I haven't studied too deeply what open theist believe. I don't think they have any problem at all acknowledging that God stands up to rebellious sinners and puts them in their place. Can you claim you've read from them that when God says Depart from me.....that they can stand up and say NO? I've never seen anyone claim that.
Click to expand...
Here’s a snapshot/critique of the intersection of freewill and open theism…

Open Theism states that God has granted to people free will and that in order for this free will to remain free, God cannot know ahead of time what the choices of people will be. They reason that if God knew a future choice of a person, then that person would not be truly free to choose anything different when the time comes to make that choice. Therefore, they say, if God knows the future free will choices of people, then it means that free will doesn’t really exist.Link
Click to expand...

My previous statement that you bolded should be understood in light of unBiblically excessive philosophical thoughts on both sides of the sovereignty/freewill debate. Election and predestination are both true, as is “whosoever will may come”.
 
Last edited:
AverageJoe said:
Sorry, eKKK...I have NO "calvinistic" thinking. I think Scripture.....period...no matter what you label it.
Click to expand...
Calvinism lies in wait a long the erroneous path one treads, and waylays him, and takes him prisoner for the Lord.
 
Baptist Renegade said:
How many of you agree with this and would use this old tract for evangelism purposes? Is there anything where you would disagree or anything you would change?

What Must I Do to be Saved? The Plan of Salvation Made Plain to Sinners from the Word of God - John R. Rice

I tried to do a "Cut and Paste" of the tract but too large to post. I guess this would be a "Strike One" in this day and age where most would hardly read past the first page but after reading, I may have to order some for distribution in our Church. I confess I have often judged John R Rice based upon the current crowd who has co-opted and hijacked the Sword!

Are there any places where John R Rice was wrong or weak in his soteriology?
Click to expand...

I have not read all of the replies; I scanned the article in haste, and (generally) thought it was pretty good. I'm pleased that I didn't see a "sinner's prayer" given - that is treated way too much like some kind of magic spell these days.
 
Ransom said:
Nothing that pops out. I'd be perfectly comfortable handing that tract out myself.

The only thing that gives me pause is the middle section where he discusses not having the right feelings to be saved, or a period of mourning over sins, and so forth. Not that I object to what he says, but I wonder what made that part necessary to put in. Seems a bit much.

I'll bet the section repentance caused a few of his contemporaries' heads to explode.
Click to expand...
IMO, Rice was saying : feelings were never quantified, so requiring them to any "level" would be unScriptural.
The Repentance section was excellent.
👍
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top