What say you? Agree or disagree?

[Bruh]

http://pastorryanhayden.com/blog/post/pragmatism-ideaday-and-oldpaths-rage

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Does this mean I have to throw this out?

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I think he, and those like him, are the future of IFB-Dom.

He writes in a take no prisoners manner:
They (old paths preachers) are angry like a blacksmith is angry at Henry Ford, like an Encyclopedia Britannica salesman is angry at Wikipedia, like the phone book company is angry at the internet. It's not a principled anger - it's the anger of a group that has been passed by.

 

[Fresh Air]

He's spot on in two things. First, that the old crowd is losing its influence. Second, that the old crowd largely caused that by their own mismanagement (for lack of a better term).

He's wrong, though, that this newer version of pragmatism is acceptable since the only ones criticizing it are those who were just pragmatic back then. Pragmatism is wrong, period, whatever generation it's in or form it takes.

I made a statement in Schizophrenic that we have become dependent on the next big idea. That's the previous generations's fault, probably, but the current generation is only making it worse.

 

[TidesofTruth]

He's spot on in two things. First, that the old crowd is losing its influence. Second, that the old crowd largely caused that by their own mismanagement (for lack of a better term).

He's wrong, though, that this newer version of pragmatism is acceptable since the only ones criticizing it are those who were just pragmatic back then. Pragmatism is wrong, period, whatever generation it's in or form it takes.

I made a statement in Schizophrenic that we have become dependent on the next big idea. That's the previous generations's fault, probably, but the current generation is only making it worse.

The only manner in which a younger generation of Baptists should try to improve on what the generation before it did, is to take out the Old Black Book and compare their lives, methods and practices and see how they line up.  It is the Baptist way.  If you just take an old method and change the method you have done nothing to become better and you might as well take the name Baptist off your church because one of the cornerstones of being Baptist is to regenerate through the Word of God.

 

[Jim Jones]

Does this mean I have to throw this out?

Tom has spoken.

Yes.

Throw it away.

 

[Walt]

Does this mean I have to throw this out?

Tom has spoken.

Yes.

Throw it away.

Pragmatism is using the measuring stick of "it works" (or "it works well") to be the measure of whether or not something is good, right, or acceptable.  For example: "Sponsoring a popular music group at our church is good because lots of people come who might not otherwise come."  Or... "Having lottery prizes for guests to our conference is good because it gets some people to come who wouldn't otherwise come."

The standard of whether to use a thing is the Scriptures, not whether or not it works.  I'm not a big fan of promotions; I think they are over-used. Too many people now expect a door prize, or entertainment, or some "reward" for attending a conference.

Anyway, being against pragmatism does not mean that practical helps should be thrown out or ignored.

 

[BALAAM]

Let us get away from this type of pragmatism. Let's get back to buying horse troughs and putting them on buses and baptizing everything that want to cool off and then publish our baptismal numbers!

Ryan Hayden is a very leve-headed young pastor. I enjoy his perspectives immensely. And  I also like (to my shame) any kind of rock that can be thrown at these 'old path' guys who are so busy patting themselves on the back  because they have not changed anything since the apostle Paul!

 

[Norefund]

Let us get away from this type of pragmatism. Let's get back to buying horse troughs and putting them on buses and baptizing everything that want to cool off and then publish our baptismal numbers!

Ryan Hayden is a very leve-headed young pastor. I enjoy his perspectives immensely. And  I also like (to my shame) any kind of rock that can be thrown at these 'old path' guys who are so busy patting themselves on the back  because they have not changed anything since the apostle Paul!

Ummm, I think they haven't changed things since about the mid-1950s. All acceptable hair styles, clothing, music, etc traces back to then.

 

[Baptist City Holdout]

Does this mean I have to throw this out?

Tom has spoken.

Yes.

Throw it away.

Or maybe sell it on Ebay!

 

[tobytyler]

Does this mean I have to throw this out?

Tom has spoken.

Yes.

Throw it away.

Looking at the faces on the front of this book, Bro Hyles did have many true servants of God who served until they no longer could physically serve.  A few are still serving in local churches (i.e. CW Fisk and the Colstens).  I have many fond memories with those in the picture.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I think that Perry Haden, Josh Teis and others in this new generation of IFB's are the future. As usual, the church in general and IFB's in particular are usually behind the curve in identifying and responding to cultural shifts.

This is much harder in the IFB culture where the power (of influence) has been centered around a few celebrity pastors. To go against the tide of consensus opinion requires great courage...but once a few do so and survive, ultimately the flood gates open. IMO, IFB's are about to see the floodgates spring wide open...

 

[Bruh]

I think that Perry Haden, Josh Teis and others in this new generation of IFB's are the future. As usual, the church in general and IFB's in particular are usually behind the curve in identifying and responding to cultural shifts.

This is much harder in the IFB culture where the power (of influence) has been centered around a few celebrity pastors. To go against the tide of consensus opinion requires great courage...but once a few do so and survive, ultimately the flood gates open. IMO, IFB's are about to see the floodgates spring wide open...

I believe you are correct to a certain point. IMO, you're referencing the Hyles side IFB. I believe there is a sect that has never been tainted by them therefore those that have grown up outside of Hyles influence may understand the need not to be so.....fashionable in worship or so relevant to the world.

 

[Twisted]

I think that Perry Haden, Josh Teis and others in this new generation of IFB's are the future.

Know nothing of Haden but if Teis is the future, then the future will be a baby-food future.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I think that Perry Haden, Josh Teis and others in this new generation of IFB's are the future. As usual, the church in general and IFB's in particular are usually behind the curve in identifying and responding to cultural shifts.

This is much harder in the IFB culture where the power (of influence) has been centered around a few celebrity pastors. To go against the tide of consensus opinion requires great courage...but once a few do so and survive, ultimately the flood gates open. IMO, IFB's are about to see the floodgates spring wide open...

I believe you are correct to a certain point. IMO, you're referencing the Hyles side IFB. I believe there is a sect that has never been tainted by them therefore those that have grown up outside of Hyles influence may understand the need not to be so.....fashionable in worship or so relevant to the world.

I know there is a section of IFB's who are far removed from the Hyles influence. I was an IFB for over 50 years, 30 years of that as an IFB Pastor. I never, ever believed it sinful for a lady to wear pants. I never believed in KJV only-ism. I was never taught or believed that methods are the same as doctrine...which is essentially what some here believe.

I did work on staff for two Pastors who held some of those beliefs.
As a college intern, I worked for what I now would call a full blown X-er, who sought to be a clone of Dr Hyles. That is where I met, and worked with, 4everfsu. I later worked in Texas for a Pastor who didn't allow pants at church or church activities, but allowed his daughter to wear them to school activities, as did many other leaders in the church. My wife did not wear pants during the time we were there.
I learned from those experiences a little about what I consider the inconsistencies of such standards. Truthfully, it was my Liberty University and Jerry Falwell experience that taught me what I consider balance....determining what was doctrine...what was immutable and what was not.

When we started the church we still serve today, I used the Falwell model of ministry, and tried to emulate his demeanor with those he disagreed with....I wasn't always successful, but tried nonetheless. Over 30 years, our ministry evolved. We went from hymn books to screens, from a choir to a praise team, from a piano to multi instrument accompaniment. All the while, my method of preaching, my Biblical standards and my emphasis on the plenary, verbally inspired Bible did not change.

Now, years later, I learned from the fff that I was a compromiser on a slippery slope to ruin all along...and the other end of the FFF spectrum has accused me of worshipping a book.
Who knew!? 

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I think that Perry Haden, Josh Teis and others in this new generation of IFB's are the future.

Know nothing of Haden but if Teis is the future, then the future will be a baby-food future.

IF you are referencing the content of his preaching...as compared to those in the old paths/old guard...I find that statement ironic...to say the least.