What should happen going forward

[Just me]

We all know well of the corruption that WHBC/OBC has been over the years.  Current situation just piles on to the long term issues.  We can all see the soon comping implosion.

So what are your suggestions for the compound going forward?
What would you like to see happen?
What should the current leadership do?
Who would take it over with that unsustainable debt?

 

[JustABigKid]

We all know well of the corruption that WHBC/OBC has been over the years.  Current situation just piles on to the long term issues.  We can all see the soon comping implosion.

So what are your suggestions for the compound going forward? Close
What would you like to see happen? Close
What should the current leadership do? Resign
Who would take it over with that unsustainable debt? The banks

 

[TruthBearer]

So what are your suggestions for the compound going forward?

A new pastor that practices what he preaches and has a genuine concern for the people of OKC, gives God the glory and is a servant not master to the congregation.

What would you like to see happen?

WHBC go bankrupt so a new pastor can buy the property at a cheaper (foreclosed property) price as opposed to funding Vineyard's new retirement home.

What should the current leadership do?

Resign, all of them and never work in another church.

Who would take it over with that unsustainable debt?

See answer to question 2.

 

[Just me]

We all know Tom will not step down.  He cares to much for himself rather than the cause of Christ.  So I suspect the place will have to go belly up and the bank come in and claim it. 

I figure Tom will tuck tail and disappear in to the night before that happens.

He should do the right thing and resign immediately.  They should close up the college and school so that no more young people can be harmed by their tactics.

And going forward no Vineyard should ever have a single thing to do with WHBC ever again.  Complete top to bottom makeover at minimum.

 

[TruthBearer]

I think the next step for the Vineyards is a prison ministry.

 

[Just me]

I think the next step for the Vineyards is a prison ministry.

Well the harm they have caused to countless people over the years is criminal for sure

 

[RedRover01]

I think the next step for the Vineyards is a prison ministry.

Well the harm they have caused to countless people over the years is criminal for sure

An apology would be nice for all the mis conduct. But we won't hold our breaths on that account.


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[Just me]

An apology would be nice for all the mis conduct. But we won't hold our breaths on that account.


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Apology?  From leadership at WHBC.  yeah right!!  You are right on not holding our breath as we wait.


I figure announcements are soon coming as to the closing of the high school or the elementary school or hopefully both.  They just do not have any teachers left.

 

[TruthBearer]

Maybe the prison ministry would teach them what it like to be abused by others in control. A Vineyard will never apologize because in their eyes they have never done anything inappropriate.

 

[JustABigKid]

I heard this evening that they cancelled the annual youth conference due to the youth pastor leaving and do many others. At least 23 whole families have left as of 2 weeks ago and soon to be more.

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[Just me]

I heard this evening that they cancelled the annual youth conference due to the youth pastor leaving and do many others. At least 23 whole families have left as of 2 weeks ago and soon to be more.

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Yes they have.  Here is a link to their Youth website confirming it.

http://www.windsorhills.org/youth-conference/

 

[JustABigKid]

Lord willing they won't be around next year to try. And don't bother calling the church or pastor as to why he will just tell you it's a coincidence that half their church left and now they can't have youth conference.

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[TruthBearer]

The arrogance and pride of a Vineryard is astounding. When you have 23 families leave your church in one week (there have been about 10 - 15 left in the last 5 years he has only been pastor up there for around 8 yrs) and think you are doing a good job is nothing but denial from a self-anionted one.

The callings of God are without repentance. There was a staff member that questioned Tommy Boy about leaving the mission field and coming back home. JV fired him on the spot and Tommy Boy intevened and kept him on for about another month and then fired the staff member himself.

When God is not in your ministry or you are doing things out of the will of God (like Jonah) this is what usually happens to pastors their church falls apart. Not because God did anything but because God didn't do anything he let man destroy himself.

The way to build a church is feed the flock so they can grow and feed others. The Vineyard's method is to slaughter the sheep to set an example for other sheep. However if you keep slaugthering the sheep the other sheep are going to run and eventually there will be no more sheep left.

The Bible talks about the good shepard that left the 99 to find the 1 that strayed. Of all the 10 - 15 families that left in the past few years not once did Tom go visit them to see why they left. This shows how concerned he is about the members up there. Many times he did use them as examples of people to not fellowship with. If you did fellowship with them he would expel you from college or not allow you to serve in the church, or if your kids were in school they would be harrassed, given extra demerits for trival things. He demanded to have access to college students facebook accounts to see who their friends were. We had some that unfriended us because he found out we were friends on facebook. This sounds a lot like what communist China does, or an Islamic Republic.

 

[Just me]

The arrogance and pride of a Vineryard is astounding. When you have 23 families leave your church in one week (there have been about 10 - 15 left in the last 5 years he has only been pastor up there for around 8 yrs) and think you are doing a good job is nothing but denial from a self-anionted one.

The callings of God are without repentance. There was a staff member that questioned Tommy Boy about leaving the mission field and coming back home. JV fired him on the spot and Tommy Boy intevened and kept him on for about another month and then fired the staff member himself.

When God is not in your ministry or you are doing things out of the will of God (like Jonah) this is what usually happens to pastors their church falls apart. Not because God did anything but because God didn't do anything he let man destroy himself.

The way to build a church is feed the flock so they can grow and feed others. The Vineyard's method is to slaughter the sheep to set an example for other sheep. However if you keep slaugthering the sheep the other sheep are going to run and eventually there will be no more sheep left.

The Bible talks about the good shepard that left the 99 to find the 1 that strayed. Of all the 10 - 15 families that left in the past few years not once did Tom go visit them to see why they left. This shows how concerned he is about the members up there. Many times he did use them as examples of people to not fellowship with. If you did fellowship with them he would expel you from college or not allow you to serve in the church, or if your kids were in school they would be harrassed, given extra demerits for trival things. He demanded to have access to college students facebook accounts to see who their friends were. We had some that unfriended us because he found out we were friends on facebook. This sounds a lot like what communist China does, or an Islamic Republic.

Windsor Hills Baptist Islamic Republic Church (WHBIRC)  How fitting

Good post.

Why would anyone even consider sending their young people to the Youth Conference held at Windsor Hills?  Wait they can't it's cancelled!!!

Or why would anyone even consider putting their kids in Windsor Hills school?  Wait they can't the high school has been closed!!!!

Why would anyone even consider sending their young people to OBC?  Wait they can't..... Well they could (for now)  but why would they? 

 

[JustABigKid]

The arrogance and pride of a Vineryard is astounding. When you have 23 families leave your church in one week (there have been about 10 - 15 left in the last 5 years he has only been pastor up there for around 8 yrs) and think you are doing a good job is nothing but denial from a self-anionted one.

The callings of God are without repentance. There was a staff member that questioned Tommy Boy about leaving the mission field and coming back home. JV fired him on the spot and Tommy Boy intevened and kept him on for about another month and then fired the staff member himself.

When God is not in your ministry or you are doing things out of the will of God (like Jonah) this is what usually happens to pastors their church falls apart. Not because God did anything but because God didn't do anything he let man destroy himself.

The way to build a church is feed the flock so they can grow and feed others. The Vineyard's method is to slaughter the sheep to set an example for other sheep. However if you keep slaugthering the sheep the other sheep are going to run and eventually there will be no more sheep left.

The Bible talks about the good shepard that left the 99 to find the 1 that strayed. Of all the 10 - 15 families that left in the past few years not once did Tom go visit them to see why they left. This shows how concerned he is about the members up there. Many times he did use them as examples of people to not fellowship with. If you did fellowship with them he would expel you from college or not allow you to serve in the church, or if your kids were in school they would be harrassed, given extra demerits for trival things. He demanded to have access to college students facebook accounts to see who their friends were. We had some that unfriended us because he found out we were friends on facebook. This sounds a lot like what communist China does, or an Islamic Republic.

Windsor Hills Baptist Islamic Republic Church (WHBIRC)  How fitting

Good post.

Why would anyone even consider sending their young people to the Youth Conference held at Windsor Hills?  Wait they can't it's cancelled!!!

Or why would anyone even consider putting their kids in Windsor Hills school?  Wait they can't the high school has been closed!!!!

Why would anyone even consider sending their young people to OBC?  Wait they can't..... Well they could (for now)  but why would they?

I know they cancelled the Youth Conference but I hadn't heard anything about the high school closing down????? I mean I don't they have any students left and I know they were talking about going to a video school since they don't have any teachers.

 

[Just me]

I know they cancelled the Youth Conference but I hadn't heard anything about the high school closing down????? I mean I don't they have any students left and I know they were talking about going to a video school since they don't have any teachers.

I believe it is not officially announced yet but it is the plan with the elementary school also heavily in consideration.  What can they do since all the teachers have left and Heartland has a school just 2 miles down the street. 

And with less than a dozen college students it might be shut down also.  How can they possibly offer the classes necessary for the various diplomas they offer.  They are already calling churches and cutting back on the Melodies and Ambassadors travels this Summer.

And, in my opinion,  I personally expect Tom to bail out shortly.

 

[JustABigKid]

I know they cancelled the Youth Conference but I hadn't heard anything about the high school closing down????? I mean I don't they have any students left and I know they were talking about going to a video school since they don't have any teachers.

I believe it is not officially announced yet but it is the plan with the elementary school also heavily in consideration.  What can they do since all the teachers have left and Heartland has a school just 2 miles down the street. 

And with less than a dozen college students it might be shut down also.  How can they possibly offer the classes necessary for the various diplomas they offer.  They are already calling churches and cutting back on the Melodies and Ambassadors travels this Summer.

And, in my opinion,  I personally expect Tom to bail out shortly.

So looks like they are going to try to keep it going with a one room schoolhouse

K-4 through 2nd in a class
3rd through 6th in a class
All the HS in a class

With all of 3 teachers total and probably going to be in part of the college wing since they aint got nobody for college.

 

[TruthBearer]

I know they cancelled the Youth Conference but I hadn't heard anything about the high school closing down????? I mean I don't they have any students left and I know they were talking about going to a video school since they don't have any teachers.

I believe it is not officially announced yet but it is the plan with the elementary school also heavily in consideration.  What can they do since all the teachers have left and Heartland has a school just 2 miles down the street. 

And with less than a dozen college students it might be shut down also.  How can they possibly offer the classes necessary for the various diplomas they offer.  They are already calling churches and cutting back on the Melodies and Ambassadors travels this Summer.

And, in my opinion,  I personally expect Tom to bail out shortly.

I am not sure about Heartland but I heard the school there was just for college students attending Heartland that had kids. I don't know if they have opened it up to other people other than Heartland students, they may have I am just not aware of it.

 

[Just me]

I am not sure about Heartland but I heard the school there was just for college students attending Heartland that had kids. I don't know if they have opened it up to other people other than Heartland students, they may have I am just not aware of it.

Ahhh did not know that.  I just assumed otherwise.  If they do open it up they would not have any attendence difficulties.

 

[TruthBearer]

I am not sure about Heartland but I heard the school there was just for college students attending Heartland that had kids. I don't know if they have opened it up to other people other than Heartland students, they may have I am just not aware of it.

Ahhh did not know that.  I just assumed otherwise.  If they do open it up they would not have any attendence difficulties.

When my wife talked to the Heartland folks awhile back that is what they were saying it would only be for Heartland students but they were considering making it open to others sometime down the road but it didn't sound like it would be this soon, it was more of a five year plan or something like that was my understanding.

I told my wife I don't think they would have moved that up because of the troubles at WH. WHBS has been on the decline for several years now. This recent course of events was a pretty big blow. There were several teachers that left in the past couple of years becasue their salary kept getting cut to the point they could not pay their bills. Some still taught and took on a second job. Their candy sale is not bringing in the money they once were for a several reasons, 1) less students selling, 2) lower quotas for each student, 3) people are tired of Worlds Finest Chocolate, 4) People don't want to buy the candy to support the school and those that know Paul don't want to buy it because he is the salesman now.