WHBC Remembered

[Green Beret]

I too was there when vineyard came till recently and NEVER  heard the mailclerk twist to the story

Would we ever hear that?  Of course not as the truth cannot be spoken or he won't be the superhero he dreams of being.

That is what I conjecture. The question is, do you know something we don't about JAV's service or are you making a point with sarcasm?

It was TruthBearer who said the mail carrier comment not Just me.

Sorry, friend. I have to pay more attention when I'm reading nested quotes!

 

[TruthBearer]

I was told he was a mail carrier by someone currently serving in the military and is helping us obtain records of a family member to have a headstone put on their grave.

They were also a former member of WHBC and served in the GWOT. Due to injuries a desk job will be the remainder of their military career processing paper work.

 

[Green Beret]

I was told he was a mail carrier by someone currently serving in the military and is helping us obtain records of a family member to have a headstone put on their grave.

They were also a former member of WHBC and served in the GWOT. Due to injuries a desk job will be the remainder of their military career processing paper work.

As they used to say on Laugh-In...."Verrrrrry Interesting". While that information supports my suspicion, it should really be confirmed officially before we can declare JAV yet another impostor. That being said, I'll take the liberty of saying that JAV now has the burden placed on him to prove he was SF. Until he does prove it, I'll believe he was a mail clerk since your story has more credibility than the things I have heard him say about his service and (please take no offense) you are just an anonymous Internet poster.

 

[Just me]

I too was there when vineyard came till recently and NEVER  heard the mailclerk twist to the story

Would we ever hear that?  Of course not as the truth cannot be spoken or he won't be the superhero he dreams of being.

That is what I conjecture. The question is, do you know something we don't about JAV's service or are you making a point with sarcasm?

It was TruthBearer who said the mail carrier comment not Just me.

Sorry, friend. I have to pay more attention when I'm reading nested quotes!

You and I both brother!!  No biggie.

 

[Just me]

I was told he was a mail carrier by someone currently serving in the military and is helping us obtain records of a family member to have a headstone put on their grave.

They were also a former member of WHBC and served in the GWOT. Due to injuries a desk job will be the remainder of their military career processing paper work.

As they used to say on Laugh-In...."Verrrrrry Interesting". While that information supports my suspicion, it should really be confirmed officially before we can declare JAV yet another impostor. That being said, I'll take the liberty of saying that JAV now has the burden placed on him to prove he was SF. Until he does prove it, I'll believe he was a mail clerk since your story has more credibility than the things I have heard him say about his service and (please take no offense) you are just an anonymous Internet poster.

Never gonna happen.  JAV will take it to his grave just like he will take all the evil he has done to others there also.

But then pathalogical liars believe the things they say the minute they speak them so by now there is no hope for that old koot

 

[TruthBearer]

I was told he was a mail carrier by someone currently serving in the military and is helping us obtain records of a family member to have a headstone put on their grave.

They were also a former member of WHBC and served in the GWOT. Due to injuries a desk job will be the remainder of their military career processing paper work.

As they used to say on Laugh-In...."Verrrrrry Interesting". While that information supports my suspicion, it should really be confirmed officially before we can declare JAV yet another impostor. That being said, I'll take the liberty of saying that JAV now has the burden placed on him to prove he was SF. Until he does prove it, I'll believe he was a mail clerk since your story has more credibility than the things I have heard him say about his service and (please take no offense) you are just an anonymous Internet poster.

No offense taken, I was just passing on what I was told which easier to believe than the Rambo stories he told. I personally cannot prove what he did in the military but like someone mentioned many of the Viet Nam vets I know personally never talk about the combat they seen while fighting over there.

JAV always seemed like a little kid telling stories his grandpa woud tell, and would embelish them to make grandpa a bigger hero, only in his case he was the little kid little kid telliing the story about himself.

 

[TruthBearer]

I was told he was a mail carrier by someone currently serving in the military and is helping us obtain records of a family member to have a headstone put on their grave.

They were also a former member of WHBC and served in the GWOT. Due to injuries a desk job will be the remainder of their military career processing paper work.

As they used to say on Laugh-In...."Verrrrrry Interesting". While that information supports my suspicion, it should really be confirmed officially before we can declare JAV yet another impostor. That being said, I'll take the liberty of saying that JAV now has the burden placed on him to prove he was SF. Until he does prove it, I'll believe he was a mail clerk since your story has more credibility than the things I have heard him say about his service and (please take no offense) you are just an anonymous Internet poster.

Never gonna happen.  JAV will take it to his grave just like he will take all the evil he has done to others there also.

But then pathalogical believe the things they say the minute they speak them so by now there is no hope for that old koot

He must have suffered from a heat stroke that affected his mental condition when he was a little boy driving the tractor shooting the Japs pretending he was at war with them (this was one of his favorite stories).  Nobody told him the war was over and he is still on the island fighting.

I guess after he defeated the Japanese Empire he took on other parts of Southeast Asia. He had swum across the ocean from Japan to Viet Nam with an 80 lb ruck sack on his back to defeat his next country.

 

[Vince Massi]

In HAC chapel, Jim told about the time he was leading a patrol inside of North Vietnam, and how they were lost. Sitting in the pew, I believed then, as now, that he was lying.

 

[theretoolong]

Since I came to Windsor and started hearing all his military/war stories, and long before I heard the whispers and read the statements on the old FFF, I was ALWAYS  an unbeliever of his tales. My reasoning is just this, we all know others who have served, we heard their stories and even read some, they were always willing to show what I will  call "artifacts". JAV was all talk with no substance. I have and always will doubt his involvement in the military. I also remember a student, not sure his placement( college, H.S. or both) but he kept detail notes of JAV stories and time lines and according to that informal investigating JAV did not do what he said, where he said or when he said..just like we are hearing now from him and son, NOTHING BUT LIES AND COVERUPS.

 

[theretoolong]

Just thought of this, we ALL have seen family members in their military uniforms...have any if you ever seen an official picture of JAV in any form of OFFICIAL military gear?

 

[JustABigKid]

Since I came to Windsor and started hearing all his military/war stories, and long before I heard the whispers and read the statements on the old FFF, I was ALWAYS  an unbeliever of his tales. My reasoning is just this, we all know others who have served, we heard their stories and even read some, they were always willing to show what I will  call "artifacts". JAV was all talk with no substance. I have and always will doubt his involvement in the military. I also remember a student, not sure his placement( college, H.S. or both) but he kept detail notes of JAV stories and time lines and according to that informal investigating JAV did not do what he said, where he said or when he said..just like we are hearing now from him and son, NOTHING BUT LIES AND COVERUPS.

Having moved away and lived in other places with a lot more military around because of military bases and air force bases the majority of military men that have seen combat DO NOT TALK about it. It brings back to many awful memories of seeing their friends killed or maimed or even themselves.

 

[Green Beret]

In HAC chapel, Jim told about the time he was leading a patrol inside of North Vietnam, and how they were lost. Sitting in the pew, I believed then, as now, that he was lying.

Yep, that absolutely doesn't pass the smell test. His chronological chain of events never match real history. I recently came across a Newspaper site that has an article from The Daily News (Huntingdon, Pennsylvania) dated November 4, 1972 that features Jim Vineyard because he was leading a bus ministry seminar in their town.

http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/17294500/

The article states that he was saved in a motel room on September 17, 1964 as "a businessman well on his way toward making his goal of earning a million dollars". It then goes on to say that Vineyard "spent three and a half years behind the Iron Curtain with the U.S. Army Special Forces (Green Berets)".

I find the "behind the Iron Curtain" comment laughable but will give it a pass because the paper was from Huntingdon. So how long do you suppose he was "in business"? Let's be generous and say two years or since 1962. Since the article says he served three and a half years in the Special Forces, that would make his service in the Army from 1958 to 1962. 

Since he never gives details about what SF Group or base he was supposedly in, we have to be deductive. Based on this above timeline, here are some things we know for sure:

1.) JAV would have NEVER fired a M-16 in theater combat. The first M-16 (commercial AR-15s) didn't reach the SF Groups in Vietnam until Spring 1964 and most Groups held on to their M-14s and M-1s until 1966.

2.) The only active SF Groups in 1958-61 were the 10th and 77th (later the 7th). Neither of which deployed to Vietnam. While a handful of advisers were deployed to Vietnam from late 1957, I can assure you none of them were low experience enlisted personnel with less than three years of service. They were all experienced NCOs (but, who knows, maybe they took a mail clerk along).

3.) The 5th SF Group was activated in 1961 expressly to meet the challenges presented in South East Asia and started to deploy to Vietnam in late 1962. It became fully deployed by 1964-65, well after JAV supposed departure.

There, that is just a casual summary that should cause any serious thinker to question JAV's stories. If he would release his records, the world would know. Until then, reasonable deductions lead thinkers to believe that he is a liar.

 

[AlvinMartinezVoice]

How about Jimmy V and his love for weapons. Auctioning off automatic weapons for youth conference. (Darrel Dow and his website love taking cheap shots at Vineyard and Hyles).

 

[Green Beret]

How about Jimmy V and his love for weapons. Auctioning off automatic weapons for youth conference. (Darrel Dow and his website love taking cheap shots at Vineyard and Hyles).

Normally, I don't feed the trolls but I'll make an exception here.

The shots are not so cheap since most of the subject matter has come at the expense of the hurt souls of men and women.

 

[AlvinMartinezVoice]

So do the Vineyards actually own the property etc.?

 

[Just me]

How about Jimmy V and his love for weapons. Auctioning off automatic weapons for youth conference. (Darrel Dow and his website love taking cheap shots at Vineyard and Hyles).

Normally, I don't feed the trolls but I'll make an exception here.

The shots are not so cheap since most of the subject matter has come at the expense of the hurt souls of men and women.

Problem is the trolls don't get it.  Especially this one.  Your well stated comment went right over the trolls head.

 

[Green Beret]

How about Jimmy V and his love for weapons. Auctioning off automatic weapons for youth conference. (Darrel Dow and his website love taking cheap shots at Vineyard and Hyles).

Normally, I don't feed the trolls but I'll make an exception here.

The shots are not so cheap since most of the subject matter has come at the expense of the hurt souls of men and women.

Problem is the trolls don't get it.  Especially this one.  Your well stated comment went right over the trolls head.

^^^^^^^^True Dat

 

[JLC63]

In HAC chapel, Jim told about the time he was leading a patrol inside of North Vietnam, and how they were lost. Sitting in the pew, I believed then, as now, that he was lying.

Yep, that absolutely doesn't pass the smell test. His chronological chain of events never match real history. I recently came across a Newspaper site that has an article from The Daily News (Huntingdon, Pennsylvania) dated November 4, 1972 that features Jim Vineyard because he was leading a bus ministry seminar in their town.

http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/17294500/

The article states that he was saved in a motel room on September 17, 1964 as "a businessman well on his way toward making his goal of earning a million dollars". It then goes on to say that Vineyard "spent three and a half years behind the Iron Curtain with the U.S. Army Special Forces (Green Berets)".

I find the "behind the Iron Curtain" comment laughable but will give it a pass because the paper was from Huntingdon. So how long do you suppose he was "in business"? Let's be generous and say two years or since 1962. Since the article says he served three and a half years in the Special Forces, that would make his service in the Army from 1958 to 1962. 

Since he never gives details about what SF Group or base he was supposedly in, we have to be deductive. Based on this above timeline, here are some things we know for sure:

1.) JAV would have NEVER fired a M-16 in theater combat. The first M-16 (commercial AR-15s) didn't reach the SF Groups in Vietnam until Spring 1964 and most Groups held on to their M-14s and M-1s until 1966.

2.) The only active SF Groups in 1958-61 were the 10th and 77th (later the 7th). Neither of which deployed to Vietnam. While a handful of advisers were deployed to Vietnam from late 1957, I can assure you none of them were low experience enlisted personnel with less than three years of service. They were all experienced NCOs (but, who knows, maybe they took a mail clerk along).

3.) The 5th SF Group was activated in 1961 expressly to meet the challenges presented in South East Asia and started to deploy to Vietnam in late 1962. It became fully deployed by 1964-65, well after JAV supposed departure.

There, that is just a casual summary that should cause any serious thinker to question JAV's stories. If he would release his records, the world would know. Until then, reasonable deductions lead thinkers to believe that he is a liar.

When I said, he's one of yours," I figured I was going to get a rise out of you, but I didn't expect this. You disproved his claims with a very compelling circumstantial
argument. I also appreciate the interesting S.F. history facts.

I suppose if he had done his jacket open, cover on indoors, clown act in Marine Green instead of a Green Beret, I would have felt the same way.

 

[Green Beret]

When I said, he's one of yours," I figured I was going to get a rise out of you, but I didn't expect this. You disproved his claims with a very compelling circumstantial argument. I also appreciate the interesting S.F. history facts.

I suppose if he had done his jacket open, cover on indoors, clown act in Marine Green instead of a Green Beret, I would have felt the same way.

I figured it was a friendly inter-service rivalry stab which I don't mind at all. I certainly give them as much as get them. Thanks for the hat tip and Semper Fi, Marine.

 

[TheAlvinChimpmunk]

Vineyard and THE OBC legacy still lives on. Vineyard has his moments as did Sir Thomas but Caleb Garraway who was mentored by the Vineyards doesn't use the scare tactics of the elder Vineyard but studied politics under the younger. He's "Pulling America"