When Do You Leave a Church?

So much for Hebrews 10:25...

Let us not neglect meeting together, as some have made a habit, but let us encourage one another, and all the more as you see the Day approaching.
 
Ransom said:
If you claim to love the Messiah, you love his Bride, and you assemble with his people.
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I would have gotten back with you sooner, but I was helping illegal migrants board a bus for New York City.
I assemble with a couple of guys every Thursday morning at 6am for breakfast where we pray for our families
and our country. We have been meeting this way for 12 years now. My wife has women that come over to
the house for fellowship and Bible study every week also. My wife is not Messianic like I am, but I am working on that! Lol
Church attendance in this country is at an all time low from what I seen on the news. The couple of guys that I meet with
have the same experience about church with the phoney preachers, sex and money scandals, legalism and the fake Christians.
I believe Yeshua says in the New Covenant where there or 2 or more gathered in my name I am there in the midst.
 
coverbd said:
I believe Yeshua says in the New Covenant where there or 2 or more gathered in my name I am there in the midst.
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Yes he does--in the context of disciplining brethren who have sinned.

How does your coffee klatsch handle discipline? Who are the leaders to whom you are subject (Hebrews 13:17)?

Church attendance in this country is at an all time low from what I seen on the news.
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You don't say. I wonder why.
 
Ransom said:
Yes he does--in the context of disciplining brethren who have sinned.

How does your coffee klatsch handle discipline? Who are the leaders to whom you are subject (Hebrews 13:17)?



You don't say. I wonder why.
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The only leader I am subject to is King Messiah. The churches are themselves to blame for low parishioner turn out. They try to sell religion like a California used car salesmen and unfortunately no one is buying. You add in all the scandals and greed and you can't blame them.
As far as discipline is concerned I will quote Messiah. He who is without sin let him cast the first stone.
 
coverbd said:
As far as discipline is concerned I will quote Messiah. He who is without sin let him cast the first stone.
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As far as discipline is concerned I will also quote Messiah:

"If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector." (Matthew 18:15-17)
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Why do you disobey the Lord Jesus by refusing to submit yourself to the discipline of a church?
 
I do not disobey Messiah. It's the churches that need the discipline not necessarily the parishioners.
The churches are a 1.2 trillion dollar business in America. Most if not all these churches are actually legal businesses. Having a so called church business disciplining parishioners makes as much sense as putting Mike Tyson in charge of a home for unwed mothers.
 
coverbd said:
I do not disobey Messiah. It's the churches that need the discipline not necessarily the parishioners.
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He didn't say "the churches." He said your brother who needs discipline is to be brought to the church. Why do you pervert Jesus's words?
 
Ransom said:
As far as discipline is concerned I will also quote Messiah:



Why do you disobey the Lord Jesus by refusing to submit yourself to the discipline of a church?
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Most churches do not practice disciplining because of legal liability issues. What are the issues that would require church disciplining?
The issues I am thinking of would be resolved in a court of law not an ecclesiastical court of legalism.
 
Ransom said:
He didn't say "the churches." He said your brother who needs discipline is to be brought to the church. Why do you pervert Jesus's words?
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I don't pervert Messiah's words. Who am I to judge my brother to determine if that person needs disciplining? That's way above my pay grade and yours too.
 
coverbd said:
I don't pervert Messiah's words. Who am I to judge my brother to determine if that person needs disciplining?
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Messiah's words: "Judge with right judgment" (John 7:24).

Also Messiah's words: "For the sake of your tradition you have made void the word of God" (Matthew 15:6).

For all your cant about "legalism," frankly, you're just another Pharisee.
 
When you read your Bible you need to ask 2 things. Who is saying it and who is it being said to.
Yochanan 7:21-24
Yeshua answered them, I did one thing; and because of this, all of you are amazed. Mosher gave you b'rit-milah----not that it came from Moshe but from the Patriarchs----and you do a boys b'rit-milah on Shabbat. If a boy is circumcised on Shabbat so that the Torah of Moshe will not be broken, why are you angry with me because I made a man's body well on Shabbat? Stop judging by surface appearances, and judge the right way.

This is probably something you need to think about?
 
Ransom said:
Messiah's words: "Judge with right judgment" (John 7:24).

Also Messiah's words: "For the sake of your tradition you have made void the word of God" (Matthew 15:6).

For all your cant about "legalism," frankly, you're just another Pharisee.
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Why do you continue to take Adonai and Messiah's word out of context?
You probably do that to fit your narrative. How sad.
 
Ransom said:
Messiah's words: "Judge with right judgment" (John 7:24).

Also Messiah's words: "For the sake of your tradition you have made void the word of God" (Matthew 15:6).

For all your cant about "legalism," frankly, you're just another Pharisee.
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I rather be a Pharisee than a Bozo Babbling Baptist. Now I'm getting down to your level of calling people names. I'm better than that. 😞
Sorry.
 
coverbd said:
Why do you continue to take Adonai and Messiah's word out of context?
You probably do that to fit your narrative. How sad.
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DARVO (Deny, attack, reverse victim and offender). Not an effective argument.
 
Ransom said:
I didn't ask about "most churches." I asked how you obeyed these commands of the Lord. Stop deflecting.
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I practice 1Yochanan 1:9
If we acknowledge our sins, then, since he is trustworthy and just, he will forgive them and purify us from all wrong doing.

Make myself perfectly clear. I will not bow to any man or tribunal in this world for any reason whether real or perceived whether right or wrong.
The church lost that disciplining right through her horrific profound sins against humanity and believers.
Could the church be the great whore that is talked about in Revelation?
 
Ransom said:
He didn't say "the churches." He said your brother who needs discipline is to be brought to the church. Why do you pervert Jesus's words?
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Ransom said:
As far as discipline is concerned I will also quote Messiah:



Why do you disobey the Lord Jesus by refusing to submit yourself to the discipline of a church?
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I will never submit to a sinful, legalistic, hypocritical, scandal infested church for any discipline.
The last IFB church that tried to enforce that so called discipline on me didn't end well for them. The IFB church in Indiana wanted to sheperd me into a church of like thinking here in North Carolina. When i refused they told me they would discipline me. They would send abusive emails and texts to me. Heck I was living 3 states away. I sent the abusive documentation to the FBI and asked them to stop this cult like church from contacting me. All of sudden it stopped. Imagine that? I'm sure my complaint about this cult like IFB church went into an FBI memory bank. The funny thing that happened 2 years later this IFB senior pastor got caught in a sex scandal and lost his 6 figure job, $400,000 home and his wife divorced his butt. When I was in Lafayette a few years ago he was working as a $7 an hour rental cop at the Lafayette mall and living in some sort of group home.

B'resheet (Genesis) 12:3
I will bless those who bless you, but I will curse anyone who curses you; and by you all the families of the earth will be blessed.
 
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