Who Is King in Our Lives?

brokenchristian said:
On the other hand, I can say that I believe it is completely contradictory for a person that believes in a God to vote for a Democrat.

Wow. Just...wow!

Some of the most authentic Christians I know who love Christ and love others and devote themselves to the Gospel are Democrat because the politics align more to their perception of how Christ lived and taught than do Republicans.

For you to think as you do about those brethren is very narcissistic.
 
brokenchristian said:
.... Long story but I would be more than glad to share with you my personal testimony.

Yes, if you'd start a separate thread, so as not to distract from this one, I'd like to hear it.
 
At what point does aligning yourself with a platform that justifies killing millions of unborn and forcing people to accept homosexual unions as something other than oppression and an abomination. 

Last I checked, Christ didn't say "Hey! That gay thing...I'm down with that! I'll go make the wine while we force those pharisees to bake a cake."

Oh yeah, maybe that verse where Christ said "That Molech thing? Nah...my father was just kidding. Let's go sacrifice some babies! While we're at it, we'll make the temple pay for the party while we stoke the fire!"

Maybe you can remind me where those verses are in the scriptures. Sorry, the affinity to want to say that Christ would want us to have a socialized government over defending the unborn is just not in scriptures. My friend, God is probably not a Republican but He is sure not a Democrat. I have serious issues with anyone that would try and defend their Christianity with the abominations brought and forced upon us by the Democrats. Their "perception" is just an excuse for their wanting to just agree with sin. If they want to debate it, I'm all for it but they better bring the Word and not heir idealism of utopia!

Sorry....the idea of Christian Democrats is laughable and gets me hot. It is not narcissistic to defend the Word and the unborn.

Smellin Coffee said:
brokenchristian said:
On the other hand, I can say that I believe it is completely contradictory for a person that believes in a God to vote for a Democrat.

Wow. Just...wow!

Some of the most authentic Christians I know who love Christ and love others and devote themselves to the Gospel are Democrat because the politics align more to their perception of how Christ lived and taught than do Republicans.

For you to think as you do about those brethren is very narcissistic.
 
Where would be a good place to put it or should I send a private message?

ALAYMAN said:
brokenchristian said:
.... Long story but I would be more than glad to share with you my personal testimony.

Yes, if you'd start a separate thread, so as not to distract from this one, I'd like to hear it.
 
brokenchristian said:
Where would be a good place to put it or should I send a private message?

You can post it on this forum, but if you want to not have folk be critical of your testimony there is a Fellowship Forum on this site that you can post it to.
 
Very good point and my apologies. I did assume that she was a man so the context that I read it in was that it she was saying she was not a believer. I didn't mean to anything offensive there. I just read it wrong.

In Christ

Web said:
brokenchristian said:
As far as you "not being a brother", am I to assume that you do not even know Jesus as your Lord and Savior?

You ought not to assume anything.  You were responding to a woman's post (Aleshanee is most decidedly a woman).  However, it appears you write only to men in your post, since you addressed "brother" and not "brother and sister."  I'm not saying that's what you meant, but that is how it could easily be construed.

As to questioning someone's salvation based on a forum post, directed to someone you don't even know,  well, shame on you.
 
At this point, I'm not going to endorse a candidate because that is not my focus on this message chain. My focus is calling us to a higher standard. I still fail to see how you can take someone who starts a whole discussion with several points of scripture about character and God's requirement for a leader and imply that he supports Hillary. It seems to be a kind of a big leap in logic. I'll accept your assumption for what it is but man...I feel kind of wounded.

Yes, in some ways I feel more comfortable with her but that is like the question of would you like to share a bunk with in prison, Dalhmer or Manson? In some ways, I understand a Satanic psychopath that is hyped on drugs. At least with  the hyped on drugs part, I can see how it may be twisted to get you to become a satanic psychopath. In any case, I don't think I'll ever understand the taste of human flesh. Especially my own! LOL .... And no, I'm not saying that Hillary nor Trump can be really be compared to these 2 guys so don't go there. LOL

As far as the most positive thing I said about a candidate, it was probably about Mike Huckabee. I used him as my example on the 2008 campaign. Again, I'm not endorsing because the bigger concern is that we as believers are getting off the rails when we can consider people like a Trump or a Hillary. I'm not saying that some other candidate is bosom buddies with Christ. We're all full of flaws but my question is what are the precepts and principles we are basing our decisions off of at this time?

In a previous post, I apologized for assuming that you were a male. I read it in the context and frame of mind I was in at the time and thus the reply. Hopefully, someone else will read it and be blessed by my encouragement for them to come to know Christ.

Philippians 1:18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

My contention with Democrats is with the platform. When they changed their platform, you moved from individuals to a system that everyone buys into when they are a part of it. To be a Democrat, you have to support abortion as a platform. To be a Democrat, you have to force people to bake a cake for your gay wedding no matter what. Just check out the democrat.org website to confirm what I am saying. On just those two platforms, I can't be a Democrat. If Republicans did the same thing, I couldn't support them. Republicans have an evangelical base while Democrats do not have one. They have an anti-christian base. What can I say?

Are there bad Republicans and have they passed bad things? Oh yes and I would fight those things with vehemence. But, for now, my chances for a more Christ-like governance is way better with Republicans than it is with Democrats.

As far as Ross Perot is concerned, he didn't exactly push those things that affected Christians on a spiritual level that much. He didn't make any real spiritual appeal. A basket fruit without any direction was his campaign.

As far as throwing away your vote, my question to you is how has not throwing away our vote helped us in the past two presidential elections. I remember the "Maverick" did real well against the socialist. Of yeah, Romney was also the safe bet. These were the same arguments that was made about Reagan in 1979 (yeah..I'm an old guy). He was way too conservative and had too much conviction. You right, his was a failed presidential bid that was just a waste of time. It is true that the primaries didn't go so well for him in 1975 but everyone knew that they chose the wrong guy after his convention speech. 

As to the question if I support someone, I'm looking at a few people but mainly in prayer. I have my eyes set on one but I'm in a late voting state. That is about all I will say. LOL.

 
I despise the fact that this will probably be my last post until Monday. I'm so sorry that you live so far out...but....envious of the location.  :D

Sister, I would not get discouraged by weighing yourself down with who is the most electable. The people that preach that doctrine are usually non-believers or those that have bought into it without acknowledging that Christ is the one who sets up leaders.

Daniel 2:21 And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:
Psalms 75:7 But God is the judge: he putteth down one, and setteth up another.

It may be that no matter how we vote that God chooses us to have Hillary or Sanders be the ruler and praise the Lord for it. His ways are much higher than my ways.

The real question is not whose eye you're going to stick your finger into but who you are, personally, going to choose to be your King? Is it Christ or is it someone else? Pick the most godly candidate and if done with the wrong motive it is done while being in disobedience.

2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

2 Chronicles 25:2  And he did that which was right in the sight of the Lord, but not with a perfect heart.

The first verse above talks about giving but it also addresses the heart. The second is one of many verses where people didn't give their heart to the Lord but did good things. God is more concerned about your heart and not your actions. Don't vote because you think this is the man or woman you will trust to defend you. Vote off of God's principles and precepts. Honor Him in it by trusting Him and not in what a political commentator says that is just trying to sell you his thoughts.

Psalms 81:11-14  But my people would not hearken to my voice; and Israel would none of me. So I gave them up unto their own hearts' lust: and they walked in their own counsels. Oh that my people had hearkened unto me, and Israel had walked in my ways! I should soon have subdued their enemies, and turned my hand against their adversaries.

Psalms 8:7,20  And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them. That we also may be like all the nations; and that our king may judge us, and go out before us, and fight our battles.

Christ calls us to obey Him. He will fight our battles as long as we are obedient to Him and seek His face. He will confound the wise. He will put down the wisdom of this World.

Sister, I urge you to trust Christ and make your decisions based off of a pure conviction of His will based on scripture. Let the gospel transform every thought in your life.

Psalms 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

The more I read this verse, the more it appeals to me in the progression of how we can move away from Christ. We listen to the ungodly (be it conservative commentators or liberal media). We then start to compromise and start to stand with sinners. As we stop moving in the direction that Christ would have us move, we end up sitting in the seat of the scornful.

What about those Christians that trusted in Ross Perot or in George H. Bush? Many of them chose for the wrong reason(s). I was there when Perot ran (was actually a coordinator for security and media in the Vice Presidential debates). Because I was more foolish and younger, I voted for Bush because I was a staunch Republican. I just figured that was the thing to do at the time. If I knew then what I know now, I can't say I would have done much differently (too long ago) but my mindset would have been different. I knew speech writers for Reagan and I got a lot of ungodly advise from them. I've lived a very interesting life. At the end of the day, the only fruit I've seen is when Christians submitted themselves to Christ.

I'll be praying for you and everyone here.

Your brother in Christ.

aleshanee said:
what good are a candidates principles if he has no chance of being elected, and putting those principles into action?....... ???.... ....

i personally can;t stand trump...... and i don;t think he can beat any of the democrats in a nationwide election................ .. and i have also said it here before in other threads....many times......  if republicans don;t start taking this election seriously and nominate someone that the majority of american voters can support.... then all they are going to do is guarantee a democratic victory in november.... .... the people they call the "republican establishment" seems to understand that.... ... yet they are being demonized by trump...his supporters.... his newest lap dog sarah palin..... and even many in the news media who have jumped on the band wagon.........

and the whole reason ross perot ran for president in 1992 was to split the conservative vote and assure clinton would win the white house......... he even admitted to that..... perot had a long sanding feud with the bush family and wanted the first george bush booted out of office....... but how many people studied that before hand and realized all they were doing by voting for perot was technically handing clinton the white house?............ it all happened before my time but i have read the history of that election and it was pretty disturbing to see how many christians jumped on the perot band wagon and caused bush to lose......... ......

the same thing will happen again even without a 3rd party candidate running if republicans nominate someone who has no chance of winning the election.......  so yes... sometimes you have to choose the lesser of 2 evils when you know for certain that it will be one of those evils you share a bunk with, and not somebody else you would rather have instead...... and that requires doing your homework......... ...... as far as which of those murderous felons i would rather share a bunk in the slammer with?..... i would choose to break out of jail.........  ;)

one of the down sides about living in hawaii is that ...mathematically.... there is no way hawaii will ever submit the deciding electoral votes in a presidential election......... we have 2 electoral votes..... and not only that but we are so far out in the pacific that on election day the winner has already been announced before most people here even manage to get to the polls........  ...... but i am still going to vote..... because there are local elections being held at the same time..... but in hawaii the vote for president is just adding a few numbers to a race that has already been decided........
 
brokenchristian said:
At what point does aligning yourself with a platform that justifies killing millions of unborn and forcing people to accept homosexual unions as something other than oppression and an abomination. 

For you to lock your gaze on two issues is being nearsighted at best. The Democratic party sells the ideal of caring for the elderly, women, immigrants, impoverished, racial minorities, and public healthcare. Whether those things are being done successfully by the Dems or even their motives are pure by doing these things are fair questions to consider and debate. However, there are godly people who follow the teachings of Jesus who see these 'sales points' in line with what Jesus taught and vote their conscience accordingly.

brokenchristian said:
Last I checked, Christ didn't say "Hey! That gay thing...I'm down with that! I'll go make the wine while we force those pharisees to bake a cake."

Oh yeah, maybe that verse where Christ said "That Molech thing? Nah...my father was just kidding. Let's go sacrifice some babies! While we're at it, we'll make the temple pay for the party while we stoke the fire!" 
Maybe you can remind me where those verses are in the scriptures. Sorry, the affinity to want to say that Christ would want us to have a socialized government over defending the unborn is just not in scriptures.

And institutions like Planned Parenthood have actually saved the lives of babies and mothers through both prevention of unwanted pregnancies and healthcare for both mothers and infants. There are cases where a woman would have had an abortion if it had NOT been for PP.

With you, I agree the murder of babies is horrific and is not justifiable. God will take care of that someday. But to look at the single point when the other party is for the killing of babies and mothers (via 'collateral damage' in war), BOTH parties are guilty.

Concerning gay marriage, why should a person's partner not be allowed healthcare and spousal benefits simply because of their gender? THAT is what the gay marriage thing is about. Whether or not homosexuality is sinful is another argument. Should a person be denied proper healthcare because he/she is gay and cannot gain spousal benefits from his/her life partner as a heterosexual couple can?

brokenchristian said:
My friend, God is probably not a Republican but He is sure not a Democrat.

I agree with this. He is neither party. People of both parties are His creations, created in His image and God allows the powers that be to perform what He wills.


brokenchristian said:
I have serious issues with anyone that would try and defend their Christianity with the abominations brought and forced upon us by the Democrats. Their "perception" is just an excuse for their wanting to just agree with sin.

Please show me one instance in America where any Democratic politician set motions in play to "force" the general public to have an abortion.

brokenchristian said:
Their "perception" is just an excuse for their wanting to just agree with sin.

Or just maybe they believe their party lines up with what Jesus taught:

For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.? Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ?Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?? And the King will answer them, ?Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.?

You may disagree with them, but where your narcissism sets in is that you condemn followers of Jesus to an eternal hell because they may believe (rightly or wrongly) the Democratic party is closer to fulfilling the teachings of Jesus than the Republicans.

brokenchristian said:
If they want to debate it, I'm all for it but they better bring the Word and not heir idealism of utopia!

The 'Word' has been brought. Keep in mind the real reason why God judged Sodom:

Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.

The Bible is plentiful in illustrations where people of God were told to take care of the marginalized in their societies, where their nations were to care for the poor, widows, orphans and immigrants and actually required to help them.

brokenchristian said:
Sorry....the idea of Christian Democrats is laughable and gets me hot. It is not narcissistic to defend the Word and the unborn.

It is not narcissistic to defend the Bible and unborn. I agree. What is narcissistic is to say that people who disagree with YOU on these issues are not even followers of Christ. You are not the judge and I will stand with my Democrat brothers and sisters in this matter, even though I may (and in many cases, do) disagree with their political views. I will fight for their right to follow Christ as they see His teaching and allow them to conform their politics accordingly.

Apart from the local level of government, I have never voted for a Democrat so don't think I am toeing the line for the Democratic party.
 
brokenchristian said:
Dear Brother,

Psalms 119:4  Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently

Daniel 1:8  But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king's meat, nor with the wine which he drank: therefore he requested of the prince of the eunuchs that he might not defile himself.

I hope I am not being offensive to you as you read this. It has been done with prayer and self analysis on my life. I am very much a sinner that has no right to dictate my life upon others. I am full of hypocrisy and am not worthy of note nor to stand up for the Lord's word. I have done things that I am ashamed of and am in continual grief and heartbreak over. I am not a man to be followed but am a man to be reviled. I am nothing but the basest of men.

With the above said, I have become concerned with the current leanings that we, as believers, are having in choosing those that are to lead us. As I have talked to believers over the years, I hear the fear of loosing to a "greater evil" or to lean upon the "management capabilities" of one over another. As believers, my question to all of us is what would be honoring before the Lord. How would He and how does He choose? Who would He choose today?

1 Samuel 16:7  But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.

As the passage above shows, God looks upon the heart of a man. This isn't the man's outward appearance, his apparent ability to dominate others nor his proven ability to lead men into battle. How can we determine the heart of man and see if this is one that the Lord would choose?

Proverbs 15:2  The tongue of the wise useth knowledge aright: but the mouth of fools poureth out foolishness.
Proverbs 17:20  He that hath a froward heart findeth no good: and he that hath a perverse tongue falleth into mischief.
Proverbs 16:5 Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the Lord: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.
Proverbs 16:21 The wise in heart shall be called prudent: and the sweetness of the lips increaseth learning.
Proverbs 16:27-28  An ungodly man diggeth up evil: and in his lips there is as a burning fire. A froward man soweth strife: and a whisperer separateth chief friends.
Proverbs 15:32-33  He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul: but he that heareth reproof getteth understanding. The fear of the Lord is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility.



Given the above, would God choose a man that defiles with his lips? Would a man that pours out foolishness be one that our Lord Jesus Christ would say is the best for His people?



1 Samuel 8:5-10,18-20  And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations. But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the Lord. And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them. According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee. Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them. And Samuel told all the words of the Lord unto the people that asked of him a king. And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the Lord will not hear you in that day. Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, Nay; but we will have a king over us; That we also may be like all the nations; and that our king may judge us, and go out before us, and fight our battles.

Acts 13:17-23  The God of this people of Israel chose our fathers, and exalted the people when they dwelt as strangers in the land of Egypt, and with an high arm brought he them out of it. And about the time of forty years suffered he their manners in the wilderness. And when he had destroyed seven nations in the land of Chanaan, he divided their land to them by lot. And after that he gave unto them judges about the space of four hundred and fifty years, until Samuel the prophet. And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years. And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:



The above would point to the fact that the Lord gave Israel their King because they refused to accept God's wisdom. Though He redeemed us through Daniel's seed, Jesus, a king chosen by the people was not His best choice. In truth, they trusted in the wisdom of the world. They wanted a man to manage their armies and fight their battles. That made them feel safe. They rejected the Lord and His wisdom. They paid dearly for it. When it was too late, God refused to listen to their cries for help because they rejected His wisdom.



Daniel 4:34-37  And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation: And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou? At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellors and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me. Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.

Daniel 11:1 Also I in the first year of Darius the Mede, even I, stood to confirm and to strengthen him.



As the above proclaims, God does choose and strengthens the leaders.  Who we get as a leader might be based on who we trust, man or God's wisdom.


Given all of this, I would like to bring our attention on the current events and the heart of God's people in the church.  Back in 2008, I remember when I read of Pat Robertson's endorsement of Rudy Giuliani. At the time, I was taken aback with the thought of "certainly this can't be the case". Upon looking it up, he endorsed him because:

"The overriding issue before the American people, is the defense of our population against the bloodlust of Islamic terrorists," Robertson told the National Press Club audience. "Our world faces deadly peril...and we need a leader with a bold vision who is not afraid to tackle the challenges ahead." -> http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/11/07/pat-robertson-endorses-rudy-giuliani-for-president.html


This was interesting as it paralleled Israel's begging for a King. Giuliani was pro-choice but Robertson chose the fear and the wisdom of man over the principle of defending the unborn.


At the time, Mike Huckabee, a one-time preacher and former governor was running for office. I was confused and fairly agitated as I began to research and found that most of the evangelical right had endorsed non-believers for the position of high office.


Bob Jones III had endorsed Romney (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2007-10-16-jones-romney_N.htm)  because:

"This is all about beating Hillary," Jones said. "And I just believe that this man has the credentials both personally and ideologically in terms of his view about what American government should be to best represent the rank and file of conservative Americans."

So Bob Jones III is a Christian leader that is to teach others to trust in Christ.  He chooses the safety and wisdom from a man that believes that Satan is the brother of Jesus over a man who professes Christ as King. Is this a show of faith or a show of faithlessness?


I could go on and on about how our Christian brothers and sisters chose man's wisdom over God's choice based on the heart of the man. What I do find interesting is that after the election of president Obama, there was a hard shift towards the Constitution and the Founding Fathers. Just like Israel pining for the days of its Kingdom after being exiled from the land, we pined for the days of when we stood up for the values and principles that our nation was founded on. Now, I am perplexed because so many of us are pining after a man that shows managerial and leadership capabilities but is devoid of the true knowledge of God.

Needless to say, I'm talking about Donald Trump. I don't think I have to go into his history of language and discourse. If you need some material, I'll let you look that up yourself. I would just urge you to do it without kids being around at the time. But onto the issues that, for me, matter most as a believer to help me determine if this is who God would want us to marry....errrrrrr....choose to be our leader.

I also want to say that I'm not going to endorse any of the more "Christian" candidates because my concern is not about them. My concern is about the heart and mindset of the Christians I interact with and whose comments I read or hear on a regular basis. What is our motivation and what is our trust?

Abortion:

This has been an "evolving" issue for Trump. I will refer to http://www.charismanews.com/politics/primaries/51296-donald-trumps-views-on-abortion-confusing as quick summary.

In essence, he now says he is pro-life. This is apparently because he had a friend who almost had an abortion but didn't and now enjoys his baby. This isn't a change based on a spiritual reason and coming under the authority of Christ but under the undulating changes of emotion during one's life.

He has pledged to reverse Obamacare which contains loopholes for abortion but in the subject of Planned Parenthood where your American taxes paid for 327,653 abortions in 2013 (http://cnsnews.com/news/article/melanie-hunter/planned-parenthood-we-did-327653-abortions-one-year) he said "I do not want to say that because I want to show unpredictability. You have to. You can't just go around and say that. But Planned Parenthood should absolutely be defunded. I mean if you look at what's going on with that, it's terrible. And many of the things should be defunded and many things should be cut."

The above is taken from http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Donald_Trump_Abortion.htm but I would like to point out the below where he said in a 2015 interview on PBS:

Describing himself as "pro-life," Trump told Bloomberg News in January that he believes abortion should be banned at some point in pregnancy, with exceptions for rape, incest or life of the mother. In 2011 he explained to the Christian Broadcasting Network that he had changed his mind on the issue. In "The America We Deserve," Trump then wrote that he supported a woman's right to choose."

Is this someone whom we can trust to choose a supreme court justice that will defend the life of a child? Is this someone that we can trust that will not have another emotional moment and make abortion payable on demand at every hospital by the government? After reading about the other candidates, who do you think would be most trustworthy? Who has a better history of doing what he says he will do that is based on a spiritual relationship that defines his character?



Homosexual Marriages and the Support of Sodomy:

I will leave MSNBC's love for Trump to do most of the explaining: http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/donald-trump-2016s-most-lgbt-friendly-republican

His support for gay marriage has been something that has been around for quite some time and is easily searchable.

Leviticus 18:22  Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination
Leviticus 20:13  If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Romans 1:26-28  For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

The last set of verses (Romans) speaks of the heart of man and its natural progression towards being given over to a reprobate mind. How does it reveal the heart of a believer that chooses to overlook it and its seriousness? What was God's view of Lot and what happened to his family when he decided it was wiser to camp with those that are reprobate in nature?



On being a Christian and Christian rights:

Donald Trump is saying that he is a Presbyterian. I'll accept that but let us examine the words from this man of God?!?

He has never sought forgiveness from God (kind of the basic tenant of Christianity):  http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/trump-does-not-ask/2015/07/18/id/657832/  and a more recent quote (17th of January 2016) http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-on-god-i-dont-like-to-have-to-ask-for-forgiveness-2016-1

James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
Mark 7:20-22  And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.  For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,  Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:  All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.


He says he is a believer but he seems to have missed the relationship part with Christ:

"I believe in God. I am Christian. I think The Bible is certainly, it is THE book..First Presbyterian Church in Jamaica Queens is where I went to church. I?m a Protestant, I?m a Presbyterian. And you know I?ve had a good relationship with the church over the years. I think religion is a wonderful thing. I think my religion is a wonderful religion." and "[I go to church] as much as I can. Always on Christmas. Always on Easter. Always when there?s a major occasion. And during the Sundays. I?m a Sunday church person. I?ll go when I can."  -> http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0411/52942.html


I think one of the most evident things, to me, is that he is so divorced from the scriptures that he doesn't know how to quote 2 Corinthians 3:17 (http://www.mediaite.com/online/watch-liberty-university-students-laugh-at-trump-quoting-from-two-corinthians/). Even my four year old knows to say second and not two. Though I would never fault a person trying to learn from God's Holy Word to misread it out of ignorance, I find it offensive that a person would try to drape the Holy Word of God around them for his own gain and try to pass him off as a believer. Are we so callous and so lukewarm to not get a little hot when we see someone do this?



As I have said to many, it is not my place to judge. It is my place to preach and encourage us to submit under the authority of scripture. If I am in sin, please let me know for I must repent. If I have offended you, please let me apologize. If I have encouraged you in your walk with Christ, let our praise and glory be given to the Lord. I am nothing and am the chief of hypocrites and sinners.

This nation was based on Christian principles:

"The general principles, on which the Fathers achieved independence, were the only Principles in which that beautiful Assembly of young Gentlemen could Unite, and these Principles only could be intended by them in their address, or by me in my answer.

And what were these general Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity, in which all these Sects were United: And the general Principles of English and American Liberty, in which all those young Men United, and which had United all Parties in America, in Majorities sufficient to assert and maintain her Independence.

Now I will avow, that I then believe, and now believe, that those general Principles of Christianity, are as eternal and immutable, as the Existence and Attributes of God; and that those Principles of Liberty, are as unalterable as human Nature and our terrestrial, mundane System." - John Adams June 28, 1813


My opening set of scriptures was based on the precepts of God's precepts and Daniel's purposing of his heart towards those precepts while under the thumb of a self-worshiping dictator. On the surface, it would have been better for Daniel to have just chosen the path of least resistance just like it was for Israel in desiring the king.

It hurts my heart when I hear believers choose man's wisdom and the times they live in over the precepts and principles given by scripture. It is like they are saying what the Chinese "christian" business man would say "I'm a business man first and a christian second". Are we saying "I'm an American first and a Christian second?" Rex Lex was a foundational sermon preached by Rutherford that brought about the Revolution which was based on the principles and precepts of the Bible. In the face of an overwhelming force and insurmountable odds, the prayers of our founders brought about the end of tyranny of an ungodly king.


My dear brother, I've been involved in politics for most of my life. As I've gotten older, I've seen more and more how my decisions should be on the precepts and principles of Christ my King. To do otherwise would subject me to the whims and sins of man. An ocean that is as unpredictable as the waves. It is Christ that gives us blessing and it is Christ whom we should honor. Please let our vote be about honoring and trusting in Christ and not in the whims of man. If we do not this thing, don't be surprised when we face a judgment that is more oppresive than what we currently face. The Jews were kicked out of the land because of their refusal to follow the Lord and then again when they were regathered to only reject the Messiah. Do not be surprised if the Lord does not confound your wisdom by having a Trump being bested by a Sanders because his abrasive attitude makes the majority of voters vote in defense of the old man that appears to only want to do good.

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."  -> John Adams - Argument in Defense of the British Soldiers in the Boston Massacre Trials (4 December 1770)

Your brother in Christ

My take on this is a little different than most. Why would you want to come one these forums and immediately want to preach to everyone? Typical ifb mentality. If everyone were just like me then revival would be breaking out all over the world! Right?
 
aleshanee said:
BALAAM said:
My take on this is a little different than most. Why would you want to come one these forums and immediately want to preach to everyone? Typical ifb mentality. If everyone were just like me then revival would be breaking out all over the world! Right?

exactly...... and ... like the typical ifb... he throws in broad brush judgements and accusations that anyone who disagrees with his scripture twisting take on things are either non-believers or those who refuse to obey Christ.... that alone is reason enough to ignore him.....

but from what he is saying.... and if taken to it;s logical conclusion.....  it sounds like he thinks christians should not even vote at all but should just stay at home on election day and pray......  .. yeah, the hillary clinton/bernie sanders supporters would love that.... ::) .......... ...... i;m not wasting any more time answering him.......

Actually, this mentality is much more common than you would believe. You would think that an ifb church and its members that claim to believe the Bible and love America would be far more interested in its political leaders than they are. I can't tell you how many people have told me during the last election, "Oh I could never vote for a mormon." Oh I could never vote for a catholic or whatever. So they sit home andpat themselves on the back because they have 'convictions' and not vote at all and claim how much they love their country. Go ahead and keep praying for revival. Just don't ask me to waste my time about it. And, by the way, I certainly do not believe that our problems are merely political and can be changed by whoever is in the white house. I believe in a soveriegn God who gives people just what they deserve.
 
I just got back from a  nice weekend of throwing snowballs and building snow forts with the kids. Much fun! :)

Soooo...I just sat down and idled back to this discussion. Thank you for your response. I'm still digesting it and am feeling that it requires a more pointed discussion in the form of another thread. It has been something I've struggled with for about 20 years. I think your concerns/points can be addressed but in a more direct fashion with the light of scripture.

All of that said, I wish to be humbled for the cause and purpose of Christ. If my stance is dishonoring before the Lord, let me apologize and repent. If my stance is grounded in scripture but comes from the wrong heart, I've done nothing but lifted myself up and have disavowed God's Word in my heart. If my stance is pure and of sound doctrine, let Christ be magnified and let the Spirit change our hearts.

Your Brother in Christ



Smellin Coffee said:
brokenchristian said:
At what point does aligning yourself with a platform that justifies killing millions of unborn and forcing people to accept homosexual unions as something other than oppression and an abomination. 

For you to lock your gaze on two issues is being nearsighted at best. The Democratic party sells the ideal of caring for the elderly, women, immigrants, impoverished, racial minorities, and public healthcare. Whether those things are being done successfully by the Dems or even their motives are pure by doing these things are fair questions to consider and debate. However, there are godly people who follow the teachings of Jesus who see these 'sales points' in line with what Jesus taught and vote their conscience accordingly.

brokenchristian said:
Last I checked, Christ didn't say "Hey! That gay thing...I'm down with that! I'll go make the wine while we force those pharisees to bake a cake."

Oh yeah, maybe that verse where Christ said "That Molech thing? Nah...my father was just kidding. Let's go sacrifice some babies! While we're at it, we'll make the temple pay for the party while we stoke the fire!" 
Maybe you can remind me where those verses are in the scriptures. Sorry, the affinity to want to say that Christ would want us to have a socialized government over defending the unborn is just not in scriptures.

And institutions like Planned Parenthood have actually saved the lives of babies and mothers through both prevention of unwanted pregnancies and healthcare for both mothers and infants. There are cases where a woman would have had an abortion if it had NOT been for PP.

With you, I agree the murder of babies is horrific and is not justifiable. God will take care of that someday. But to look at the single point when the other party is for the killing of babies and mothers (via 'collateral damage' in war), BOTH parties are guilty.

Concerning gay marriage, why should a person's partner not be allowed healthcare and spousal benefits simply because of their gender? THAT is what the gay marriage thing is about. Whether or not homosexuality is sinful is another argument. Should a person be denied proper healthcare because he/she is gay and cannot gain spousal benefits from his/her life partner as a heterosexual couple can?

brokenchristian said:
My friend, God is probably not a Republican but He is sure not a Democrat.

I agree with this. He is neither party. People of both parties are His creations, created in His image and God allows the powers that be to perform what He wills.


brokenchristian said:
I have serious issues with anyone that would try and defend their Christianity with the abominations brought and forced upon us by the Democrats. Their "perception" is just an excuse for their wanting to just agree with sin.

Please show me one instance in America where any Democratic politician set motions in play to "force" the general public to have an abortion.

brokenchristian said:
Their "perception" is just an excuse for their wanting to just agree with sin.

Or just maybe they believe their party lines up with what Jesus taught:

For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.? Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ?Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?? And the King will answer them, ?Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.?

You may disagree with them, but where your narcissism sets in is that you condemn followers of Jesus to an eternal hell because they may believe (rightly or wrongly) the Democratic party is closer to fulfilling the teachings of Jesus than the Republicans.

brokenchristian said:
If they want to debate it, I'm all for it but they better bring the Word and not heir idealism of utopia!

The 'Word' has been brought. Keep in mind the real reason why God judged Sodom:

Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.

The Bible is plentiful in illustrations where people of God were told to take care of the marginalized in their societies, where their nations were to care for the poor, widows, orphans and immigrants and actually required to help them.

brokenchristian said:
Sorry....the idea of Christian Democrats is laughable and gets me hot. It is not narcissistic to defend the Word and the unborn.

It is not narcissistic to defend the Bible and unborn. I agree. What is narcissistic is to say that people who disagree with YOU on these issues are not even followers of Christ. You are not the judge and I will stand with my Democrat brothers and sisters in this matter, even though I may (and in many cases, do) disagree with their political views. I will fight for their right to follow Christ as they see His teaching and allow them to conform their politics accordingly.

Apart from the local level of government, I have never voted for a Democrat so don't think I am toeing the line for the Democratic party.
 
BALAAM said:
My take on this is a little different than most. Why would you want to come one these forums and immediately want to preach to everyone? Typical ifb mentality. If everyone were just like me then revival would be breaking out all over the world! Right?

1 Corinthians 1:18-21 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

My initial post is out of consternation because so many believers "preach" Trump and not Christ. What I see in the church is a vitriol towards the society we live in and not submitting ourselves to the rule of Christ in our lives. We are tending to lean upon the counsel of the ungodly and not the  counsel of scriptures.

The reasons I posted on this forum was several fold:

1)  I needed other believers that proclaimed to be defenders of the truth (in a fundamental way) to correct me if I am wrong or confirm my thoughts. This was in hopes that the Word of God would be used. I want and need to submit to my brothers in Christ. Otherwise, I'm following my own religion.

Proverbs 9:9 Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.

2)  It was an expression of sadness in what I saw about me. If I am/was wrong, the correction would be sweet and I would grow.

Proverbs 12:1 Whoso loveth instruction loveth knowledge: but he that hateth reproof is brutish.
Proverbs 9:8 Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.

3)  In posting to the "Fighting Forum", I was expecting some people to fight in a Biblical manner. I was expecting the use of scripture. I was expecting the ability to chew on something. Instead I got, at first, a "tl;dr" and a quote from Shakespeare that quoted a fool to show his own folly. A little later on people began to respond but in the manner of saying that they are refuting without reading.

Proverbs 18:13  He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.

In all of the posts, I have not received any scriptural reproof. Any real reproof were based on three things:

1) An attack on the fact that I misread someone as being a boy and not a girl. Sorry for that mistake.

2) Attacks on my character with the assumption that I'm some sort of evil plant.

3) Attacks on my characterization of people claiming to be Christian and voting Democrat to be in-congruent to the scriptures. I will handle this later in another thread. I want to say that I really appreciated this one as it really causes us to at least focus on God's Word.

I'm not attacking people on this board and I'm well aware that most have not even responded. I'm attacking our mindset or at least the mindset that seems to be instilled in the people that have responded.

If you are for Trump, I have yet to hear any scriptural reproof.

If I should compromise my beliefs so that the "end justifies the means", I have yet to see a scriptural defense for this.

If I should make my decisions not based on scripture, I have yet to hear any scripture that would teach me this.

Yes. I'm assuming that those on this board are believers and are fundamentalists. With that said, most of what I'm about to say probably does not apply to you. Also, I have three fingers pointing back at me. As a fundamentalist, it should mean that we fight for and defend God's Word and the faith that we hold dear to but what I have seen is an abhorrence for His Word. We run to insults and innuendos but we don't take on the gravity of what we got saved into. Is that really what we are about? Is that really the state of our Church?

Proverbs 3:3-8 Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart: So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man. Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the Lord, and depart from evil. It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.

I'm sorry if what I have said seems to be rough. I'm sorry for being "preachy" (though God does use preaching for His glory). If you guys don't want to be challenged and are too thin skinned to be challenged with God's Word, just let me know. I'll go away and I will pray for you. I'll be sad over the state of our Church for it is just a testimony of being in the Laodecian church age.

In Christ
 
brokenchristian said:
BALAAM said:
My take on this is a little different than most. Why would you want to come one these forums and immediately want to preach to everyone? Typical ifb mentality. If everyone were just like me then revival would be breaking out all over the world! Right?

1 Corinthians 1:18-21 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

My initial post is out of consternation because so many believers "preach" Trump and not Christ. What I see in the church is a vitriol towards the society we live in and not submitting ourselves to the rule of Christ in our lives. We are tending to lean upon the counsel of the ungodly and not the  counsel of scriptures.

The reasons I posted on this forum was several fold:

1)  I needed other believers that proclaimed to be defenders of the truth (in a fundamental way) to correct me if I am wrong or confirm my thoughts. This was in hopes that the Word of God would be used. I want and need to submit to my brothers in Christ. Otherwise, I'm following my own religion.

Proverbs 9:9 Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.

2)  It was an expression of sadness in what I saw about me. If I am/was wrong, the correction would be sweet and I would grow.

Proverbs 12:1 Whoso loveth instruction loveth knowledge: but he that hateth reproof is brutish.
Proverbs 9:8 Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.

3)  In posting to the "Fighting Forum", I was expecting some people to fight in a Biblical manner. I was expecting the use of scripture. I was expecting the ability to chew on something. Instead I got, at first, a "tl;dr" and a quote from Shakespeare that quoted a fool to show his own folly. A little later on people began to respond but in the manner of saying that they are refuting without reading.

Proverbs 18:13  He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.

In all of the posts, I have not received any scriptural reproof. Any real reproof were based on three things:

1) An attack on the fact that I misread someone as being a boy and not a girl. Sorry for that mistake.

2) Attacks on my character with the assumption that I'm some sort of evil plant.

3) Attacks on my characterization of people claiming to be Christian and voting Democrat to be in-congruent to the scriptures. I will handle this later in another thread. I want to say that I really appreciated this one as it really causes us to at least focus on God's Word.

I'm not attacking people on this board and I'm well aware that most have not even responded. I'm attacking our mindset or at least the mindset that seems to be instilled in the people that have responded.

If you are for Trump, I have yet to hear any scriptural reproof.

If I should compromise my beliefs so that the "end justifies the means", I have yet to see a scriptural defense for this.

If I should make my decisions not based on scripture, I have yet to hear any scripture that would teach me this.

Yes. I'm assuming that those on this board are believers and are fundamentalists. With that said, most of what I'm about to say probably does not apply to you. Also, I have three fingers pointing back at me. As a fundamentalist, it should mean that we fight for and defend God's Word and the faith that we hold dear to but what I have seen is an abhorrence for His Word. We run to insults and innuendos but we don't take on the gravity of what we got saved into. Is that really what we are about? Is that really the state of our Church?

Proverbs 3:3-8 Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart: So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man. Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the Lord, and depart from evil. It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.

I'm sorry if what I have said seems to be rough. I'm sorry for being "preachy" (though God does use preaching for His glory). If you guys don't want to be challenged and are too thin skinned to be challenged with God's Word, just let me know. I'll go away and I will pray for you. I'll be sad over the state of our Church for it is just a testimony of being in the Laodecian church age.

In Christ

Still haven't answered the question. The typical ifb types come on here cold turkey. They rarely know anyone but just want to preach to everyone else. WHY? I don't care about your politics. If you want to debate that there is a time and place. Nobobody really wants to wade through all of your tripe.
 
BALAAM said:
brokenchristian said:
BALAAM said:
My take on this is a little different than most. Why would you want to come one these forums and immediately want to preach to everyone? Typical ifb mentality. If everyone were just like me then revival would be breaking out all over the world! Right?

1 Corinthians 1:18-21 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

My initial post is out of consternation because so many believers "preach" Trump and not Christ. What I see in the church is a vitriol towards the society we live in and not submitting ourselves to the rule of Christ in our lives. We are tending to lean upon the counsel of the ungodly and not the  counsel of scriptures.

The reasons I posted on this forum was several fold:

1)  I needed other believers that proclaimed to be defenders of the truth (in a fundamental way) to correct me if I am wrong or confirm my thoughts. This was in hopes that the Word of God would be used. I want and need to submit to my brothers in Christ. Otherwise, I'm following my own religion.

Proverbs 9:9 Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.

2)  It was an expression of sadness in what I saw about me. If I am/was wrong, the correction would be sweet and I would grow.

Proverbs 12:1 Whoso loveth instruction loveth knowledge: but he that hateth reproof is brutish.
Proverbs 9:8 Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.

3)  In posting to the "Fighting Forum", I was expecting some people to fight in a Biblical manner. I was expecting the use of scripture. I was expecting the ability to chew on something. Instead I got, at first, a "tl;dr" and a quote from Shakespeare that quoted a fool to show his own folly. A little later on people began to respond but in the manner of saying that they are refuting without reading.

Proverbs 18:13  He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.

In all of the posts, I have not received any scriptural reproof. Any real reproof were based on three things:

1) An attack on the fact that I misread someone as being a boy and not a girl. Sorry for that mistake.

2) Attacks on my character with the assumption that I'm some sort of evil plant.

3) Attacks on my characterization of people claiming to be Christian and voting Democrat to be in-congruent to the scriptures. I will handle this later in another thread. I want to say that I really appreciated this one as it really causes us to at least focus on God's Word.

I'm not attacking people on this board and I'm well aware that most have not even responded. I'm attacking our mindset or at least the mindset that seems to be instilled in the people that have responded.

If you are for Trump, I have yet to hear any scriptural reproof.

If I should compromise my beliefs so that the "end justifies the means", I have yet to see a scriptural defense for this.

If I should make my decisions not based on scripture, I have yet to hear any scripture that would teach me this.

Yes. I'm assuming that those on this board are believers and are fundamentalists. With that said, most of what I'm about to say probably does not apply to you. Also, I have three fingers pointing back at me. As a fundamentalist, it should mean that we fight for and defend God's Word and the faith that we hold dear to but what I have seen is an abhorrence for His Word. We run to insults and innuendos but we don't take on the gravity of what we got saved into. Is that really what we are about? Is that really the state of our Church?

Proverbs 3:3-8 Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart: So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man. Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the Lord, and depart from evil. It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.

I'm sorry if what I have said seems to be rough. I'm sorry for being "preachy" (though God does use preaching for His glory). If you guys don't want to be challenged and are too thin skinned to be challenged with God's Word, just let me know. I'll go away and I will pray for you. I'll be sad over the state of our Church for it is just a testimony of being in the Laodecian church age.

In Christ

Still haven't answered the question. The typical ifb types come on here cold turkey. They rarely know anyone but just want to preach to everyone else. WHY? I don't care about your politics. If you want to debate that there is a time and place. Nobobody really wants to wade through all of your tripe.

As far as scriptural reproof: Answer not a fool according to his folly.
 
And yet...no actual quote of scriptural context.  I've said (quote below with even the misspelling):

"I'm find with you disagreeing with me. As a brother in Christ, I expect you to correct me upon the authority of scripture. These are serious times that demand serious considerations. There is a reason why 61% of evangelical kids leave home and never darken the door of the church (George Barna). It is because their fathers trust in a Trump over Christ and thus confirms to them that their religion is false and dead."

I'm fine with you disagreeing with me but what is your scriptural context? Why do you disagree with me? Being angry and showing emotion means nothing. It may move a few people but does it actually do a wit of good? 

As far as my twisting of scripture goes, that is a broad brush that many people use when they disagree with something. The form of arriving to my conclusion that I'm using is called midrash. Paul possibly thought of it as the more perfect way to study the law. Please refer to http://www.khouse.org/articles/2001/341/ for a brief synopsis of it.

In any case, every sermon uses this form of argument to build their case for whatever social ill there is in our lives. How do you Biblically handle warfare? How do you Biblically handle abortion? How do you Biblically handle finances? If you don't use this form of study, you then are forced to conclude that God has very little to say about war, abortion and your finances. Then at that point, it is just historicity and my question would be why are you having this discussion board in the first place? Is it only to get your scratchy feel-good going on? Quite non-nonsensical.

The form of discussion being done is found in Psalms 1:2 in the word meditate (Hb. hagah - http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/nas/hagah.html will give you a fuller understanding). It means to ponder and has the understanding, with it, of discourse with fellow believers. The discussion is done in a strong and many times loud manner. Again, this can only be done in the discourse of scripture.

The only politicians, in 2016, that I've criticized have been Hillary, Sanders and Trump. I haven't commented on any others. The reason is because my focus is not on really the candidates as much as the how and why we make our conclusions. Will I vote? Yes I will vote. Will I vote for a Democrat? Though I mused as to what I would do if Trump got nominated and ran against Hillary, I would probably be forced to vote for Trump. I definitely wouldn't go as far as Glenn Beck and support Sanders. :P That is the best I can give you.

You informed us of the fact that your vote probably means very little in the general election on a national scale. Yet, you castigated people that pray for their rulers. Dear sister, that is all we can really do.

2 Kings 19:35  And it came to pass that night, that the angel of the Lord went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians an hundred fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses.

God can fight our battles and He will fight our battles. Maybe this happened 3000 years ago in your mind and does not apply today. I'd be very interested in seeing how you arrive to the conclusion that God is not interested in our struggles. The God I know desires to do great things for us. I've seen and experienced incredible things in my life that only happened because God wanted me to see and experience those things. A 185000 soldiers were slaughtered for God's name. What would He do if God's people would live their lives according to His precepts and submit themselves to Him? I say this to myself as well as to you.

In the end, you've complained about me and have threatened to never return because you felt like you were wasting your time. My question to you is why have you returned? Why do you keep responding? If you want to vote for Trump, go ahead. I'm not going to stop you. You're probably a much better and more holy Christian than myself. I just wish you would give me a scriptural rebuttal rather than just say I'm twisting things out of context (without analysis). As far as the attacks to my character, I have none worthy to defend. Christ redeemed me and that is all I can say.

Psalms 37:1-6 The transgression of the wicked saith within my heart, that there is no fear of God before his eyes. For he flattereth himself in his own eyes, until his iniquity be found to be hateful. The words of his mouth are iniquity and deceit: he hath left off to be wise, and to do good. He deviseth mischief upon his bed; he setteth himself in a way that is not good; he abhorreth not evil. Thy mercy, O Lord, is in the heavens; and thy faithfulness reacheth unto the clouds. Thy righteousness is like the great mountains; thy judgments are a great deep: O Lord, thou preservest man and beast.

Your Brother In Christ



aleshanee said:
brokenchristian said:
...............

In all of the posts, I have not received any scriptural reproof. Any real reproof were based on three things:

1) An attack on the fact that I misread someone as being a boy and not a girl. Sorry for that mistake.

2) Attacks on my character with the assumption that I'm some sort of evil plant.

3) Attacks on my characterization of people claiming to be Christian and voting Democrat to be in-congruent to the scriptures. I will handle this later in another thread. I want to say that I really appreciated this one as it really causes us to at least focus on God's Word.

I'm not attacking people on this board and I'm well aware that most have not even responded. I'm attacking our mindset or at least the mindset that seems to be instilled in the people that have responded.

..........

what you have done here is to either take scripture out of context or twist and misuse it to get your many points of your beliefs across .. the main point of which you still don;t seem to have gotten to....... all you have done is run laps.....  and in the process of doing that you have attacked people on this board... and you have attacked their character...... you cannot sit back and play innocent claiming you haven;t....

you might not have attacked them directly or by name, but you have expressed your opinion... more than once... that those who do not agree with your opinions are either non-believers or choosing to disobey Christ... ... and you specifically add those who would vote democrat into that condemnation.....  and yet... you actually said yourself you would feel more comfortable with a certain notorious democrat in the white house, rather than one of the current republican candidates....

i still don;t know what your purpose here is..... but here are the facts so far.... ....

1)  while here you have trashed many presidential candidates.......  while actually endorsing none... ......

2) you have taken scripture out of context and attempted to misapply Gods words to israel concerning kings of israel... (a nation originally established by God and on the principles of God)...  to a presidential election 3 thousand plus years later, on the other side of the world... and in a country that is not even christian and was established on the principles of greed....

3) when argued against you have played the typical hyper fundamentalist card implying that your words, and your twisted misinterpretations of scripture, are to be taken as the very words and opinions of Christ.....

4)  and you have argued in a manner that has led more than one poster here to wonder if you believe and are trying to imply that God would have christians either throw their votes away on a dream candidate who cannot possibly win or stay home and not vote at all....

5) and you have said nothing to either deny or contradict that understanding of your beliefs if that is in fact not what you are trying to say.... when it was pointed out to you and you were questioned on it.... other than to reiterate your insistence that anyone not seeing eye to eye with you on this is going against God......

6) there are no perfect candidates for president in an american election and there never have been...... they are all anti-christian and anti-scripture in either one way or another.... .. so if christian principle is used to disallow voting for one specific candidate it would also disallow voting for all the others........  ....... it really is a case of choosing the lesser of all the evils and voting in a way to insure that lesser of evils gets elected..........

but obviously you see it differently or you wouldn;t still be here........  ... so tell us then.....and stop beating around the bush.......  who is your perfect candidate for the president of the united states in 2016?.......  who did God tell you to come here and campaign on behalf of? .... .... anybody?.... nobody?..... are we to just sit this one out and throw ourselves in the virtual ditch then expect God to rescue us from it?.......

ya see?........... some of us can be just as wordy as you can..... the difference is we get to the point.........


 
BALAAM said:
BALAAM said:
Still haven't answered the question. The typical ifb types come on here cold turkey. They rarely know anyone but just want to preach to everyone else. WHY? I don't care about your politics. If you want to debate that there is a time and place. Nobobody really wants to wade through all of your tripe.

As far as scriptural reproof: Answer not a fool according to his folly.

As far as not answering your question, I took it to mean that you were asking why I was posting. Now that you are pointing out that I didn't, I can only take it as meaning one of two things:

1) You are asking me why does every (or many...or every half a dozen....or 1 in 10,000) "IFB type" actually come on this board and post cold turkey. Ummmmm...I'm not God, you'll have to ask Him or maybe every "IFB type" their individual reason. LOL

2) If you are asking why they are allowed to post cold turkey, you need to ask the owner of the board.

The guidelines in the rules posted (first option when going to the site...in case you missed it) do not preclude you to be on here for a bit before posting. There isn't a prevention to post until you have already posted a few other things on another board before you are allowed to go to the fighting forum.

There isn't a sticky saying "Rules of posting on the fighting forum" and a rule that states "IFB Types (whoever that may be) must not post here cold turkey". Further, there isn't a general Netiquette guideline like CAPS THAT DENOTE SHOUTING that says I shouldn't  post cold turkey on a forum that allows you and even states that you can do such a thing.

Instead, the second link says "Fighting Forum" with the following description "This is the place to post anything and everything. If you want a more structured debate, please choice a forum under the "Doctrinal Forums" category. " Also, the rules state with "All forums are unmoderated. Users can register with the site, post to a forum, and the post is visible immediately. We assume no editorial responsibility for the content found on any forum. If you find any post objectionable, then you may report the post using the appropriate forum feature."

By any stretch of the imagination, I don't own nor operate this board. If you feel it should change, go to them. If they say tough, start your own board with its own "safe zones". Maybe you'll get some college kids on it and start a fighting fundamentalist safe zone movement. LOL

As far as the verse goes, it's a nice tongue and cheek without addressing any of my scriptural standpoints. If you are calling me a fool, please give me the reason why based on scriptural reproof. I want to learn and be wise. That is the heart of this forum as stated in the rules:

"We firmly believe that every belief must "stand up" to criticism. We all benefit from constructive criticism."

If you're calling me a fool because you don't have a reason other than you don't like what I have said, that would fall more into the lack of general Netiquette guidelines. Also, it offers zero constructive criticism. My argument still stands because you don't tackle it.

As far as "I don't care about your politics. If you want to debate that there is a time and place. Nobobody really wants to wade through all of your tripe.", could you give me a time and place? I mean this is somewhat a doctrinal issue but it isn't exactly when compared to Arminianism or Calvinism. It does have to deal more with our lives as believers on a daily basis. To be clear, I'm not saying that a discussion on "Arminianism vs Calvinism" isn't important. I'm just using it as reference.

Is there a sticky or rule that is posted that says I shouldn't post about how your politics is an out flow of your walk with Christ? With 45 posts (soon to be 46) and 730 views, it does seem like several people have been reading this post. It seems that "Nobody" is "Somebody" unless you're the benevolent god of forums that knows who is reading what when and where. If the time and place is more personal to you, then don't read but don't just castigate your unwillingness on me and everyone else on the board.

I'm not saying that I'm correct. I'm a very fallible person and my logic can be very flawed. That is where we must lean on the understanding of Christ and not of others. That is why I'm asking for scriptural reproof. If you have none, you're then just furthering to prove my point. It doesn't mean I have a good point but your refusal to address it while still discussing the matter bolsters my opinion as being more of a fact to both me and the casual reader.

To be clear, I'm not the benevolent god of casual reader thoughts but I'm just stating what is usually observed as the winner to an intellectually debate. A person that points out the most errors or omissions in their opponent's facts and logic while successfully defending their own facts and logic (go here for some good guidelines http://johntreed.com/blogs/john-t-reed-s-news-blog/60887299-intellectually-honest-and-intellectually-dishonest-debate-tactics). I've started with a large document that probably has a lot of holes to it. It should be cannon-fodder for anyone to tear apart. I did this on purpose to challenge myself with believers who can give me reproof. You've given me none but an intellectually dishonest debate tactic. That would be to attack character and change the subject. All you do is make my case stronger.

In all said, I do have this one thought. If you wish to continue to discuss Netiquette on this board and how I've missed it, I would encourage you to post another thread. Netiquette and intellectually honest debate does encourage that the thread stay on topic. Talking about how my posts and how the board's rules do not fit your idea of Netiquette or need for a "safe zone" is not within the framework of the current topic at hand.

Your Brother In Christ
 
brokenchristian said:
BALAAM said:
BALAAM said:
Still haven't answered the question. The typical ifb types come on here cold turkey. They rarely know anyone but just want to preach to everyone else. WHY? I don't care about your politics. If you want to debate that there is a time and place. Nobobody really wants to wade through all of your tripe.

As far as scriptural reproof: Answer not a fool according to his folly.

As far as not answering your question, I took it to mean that you were asking why I was posting. Now that you are pointing out that I didn't, I can only take it as meaning one of two things:

1) You are asking me why does every (or many...or every half a dozen....or 1 in 10,000) "IFB type" actually come on this board and post cold turkey. Ummmmm...I'm not God, you'll have to ask Him or maybe every "IFB type" their individual reason. LOL

2) If you are asking why they are allowed to post cold turkey, you need to ask the owner of the board.

The guidelines in the rules posted (first option when going to the site...in case you missed it) do not preclude you to be on here for a bit before posting. There isn't a prevention to post until you have already posted a few other things on another board before you are allowed to go to the fighting forum.

There isn't a sticky saying "Rules of posting on the fighting forum" and a rule that states "IFB Types (whoever that may be) must not post here cold turkey". Further, there isn't a general Netiquette guideline like CAPS THAT DENOTE SHOUTING that says I shouldn't  post cold turkey on a forum that allows you and even states that you can do such a thing.

Instead, the second link says "Fighting Forum" with the following description "This is the place to post anything and everything. If you want a more structured debate, please choice a forum under the "Doctrinal Forums" category. " Also, the rules state with "All forums are unmoderated. Users can register with the site, post to a forum, and the post is visible immediately. We assume no editorial responsibility for the content found on any forum. If you find any post objectionable, then you may report the post using the appropriate forum feature."

By any stretch of the imagination, I don't own nor operate this board. If you feel it should change, go to them. If they say tough, start your own board with its own "safe zones". Maybe you'll get some college kids on it and start a fighting fundamentalist safe zone movement. LOL

As far as the verse goes, it's a nice tongue and cheek without addressing any of my scriptural standpoints. If you are calling me a fool, please give me the reason why based on scriptural reproof. I want to learn and be wise. That is the heart of this forum as stated in the rules:

"We firmly believe that every belief must "stand up" to criticism. We all benefit from constructive criticism."

If you're calling me a fool because you don't have a reason other than you don't like what I have said, that would fall more into the lack of general Netiquette guidelines. Also, it offers zero constructive criticism. My argument still stands because you don't tackle it.

As far as "I don't care about your politics. If you want to debate that there is a time and place. Nobobody really wants to wade through all of your tripe.", could you give me a time and place? I mean this is somewhat a doctrinal issue but it isn't exactly when compared to Arminianism or Calvinism. It does have to deal more with our lives as believers on a daily basis. To be clear, I'm not saying that a discussion on "Arminianism vs Calvinism" isn't important. I'm just using it as reference.

Is there a sticky or rule that is posted that says I shouldn't post about how your politics is an out flow of your walk with Christ? With 45 posts (soon to be 46) and 730 views, it does seem like several people have been reading this post. It seems that "Nobody" is "Somebody" unless you're the benevolent god of forums that knows who is reading what when and where. If the time and place is more personal to you, then don't read but don't just castigate your unwillingness on me and everyone else on the board.

I'm not saying that I'm correct. I'm a very fallible person and my logic can be very flawed. That is where we must lean on the understanding of Christ and not of others. That is why I'm asking for scriptural reproof. If you have none, you're then just furthering to prove my point. It doesn't mean I have a good point but your refusal to address it while still discussing the matter bolsters my opinion as being more of a fact to both me and the casual reader.

To be clear, I'm not the benevolent god of casual reader thoughts but I'm just stating what is usually observed as the winner to an intellectually debate. A person that points out the most errors or omissions in their opponent's facts and logic while successfully defending their own facts and logic (go here for some good guidelines http://johntreed.com/blogs/john-t-reed-s-news-blog/60887299-intellectually-honest-and-intellectually-dishonest-debate-tactics). I've started with a large document that probably has a lot of holes to it. It should be cannon-fodder for anyone to tear apart. I did this on purpose to challenge myself with believers who can give me reproof. You've given me none but an intellectually dishonest debate tactic. That would be to attack character and change the subject. All you do is make my case stronger.

In all said, I do have this one thought. If you wish to continue to discuss Netiquette on this board and how I've missed it, I would encourage you to post another thread. Netiquette and intellectually honest debate does encourage that the thread stay on topic. Talking about how my posts and how the board's rules do not fit your idea of Netiquette or need for a "safe zone" is not within the framework of the current topic at hand.

Your Brother In Christ

Well aren't you special...didn't know we had a new Admin or Moderator here...your self importance is odorous.  You want a response to your inane OP.  Okay...you're an idiot, but your too impressed with yourself and your bloviating to see it. Hey, is your last name really, Trump?
 
Welcome to the forum brotherinchrist. I did not read everything above... too much to read.
 
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