Whosoever in John 3:16.

You’re like a fly sub average toe. Shoo fly don’t bother me.No need to respond you’ve been sent to the outhouse with the other flies.
Oh, Lacepanties, you're such a child. All you can think about is crap, insects, and snakes....I knew your brain was small...but thanks for proving what it's really made of. Your outhouse reference was enough to convince me that this is what it's truly all about with you.
 
I don’t know who Jim Vineyard is, sorry. I was in the Corps from 68-71 Nam 69-70.
and i second what huk said.... thank you for what you have done... and also for who you are..... my dad was a paramedic for alomst 35 years and in that time he helped train navy green side medics who went into combat alongside marines... .he also was part of training marines in how to perform life saving measures if the navy medic was not there or not able to..... .. so i got to know quite a few marines over the years and have great respect for all of them...
 
and i second what huk said.... thank you for what you have done... and also for who you are..... my dad was a paramedic for alomst 35 years and in that time he helped train navy green side medics who went into combat alongside marines... .he also was part of training marines in how to perform life saving measures if the navy medic was not there or not able to..... .. so i got to know quite a few marines over the years and have great respect for all of them...
Thank you for the kind words. In the Corps corpsmen are very highly respected, and the quickest way to get on in the bad side of any Marine was to mistreat a corpsman. Not many men will get up and go help another under fire, but every Marine knew when the call went out a Navy corpsman was coming.
 
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Leatherneck, in all sincerity, thanks for your service. I knew many people who lost their lives in Nam, and have many friends who lost their fathers there. My wife's uncle served there...three tours of duty. He came back to be spit on, called a baby killer, and was even denied work at some places because he had participated in the war. Just plain wrong. He passed away last year from Covid.
 
Thank you for the kind words. In the Corps corpsmen are very highly respected, and the quickest way to get on in the bad side of any Marine was to mistreat a corpsman. Not many men will get up and go help another under fire, but every Marine knew when the call went out a Navy corpsman was coming.
i went with him years ago to visit the grave at punchbowl of one of the navy medics he trained who was killed in iraq.... i didn;t know the guy myself but i still break into tears just remembering that.... i won;t write about it here but i;m sure you know what that is like....
 
i went with him years ago to visit the grave at punchbowl of one of the navy medics he trained who was killed in iraq.... i didn;t know the guy myself but i still break into tears just remembering that.... i won;t write about it here but i;m sure you know what that is like....
I civilian contracted to Iraq 3 times and to Afghanistan 3 times. While at Kandahar they would bring the fallen soldier or Marine in a flag draped coffin in a humvee and perform a service for the fallen. There would not be one dry eye on the apron. To this day I cannot go to the Vietnam wall for the fallen in DC. When I was in the Marine Corps league I helped set up the moving wall, and it broke me.
 
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I civilian contracted to Iraq 3 times and to Afghanistan 3 times. While at Kandahar they would bring the fallen soldier or Marine in a flag draped coffin in a humvee and perform a service for the fallen. There would not be one dry eye on the apron. To this day I cannot go to the Vietnam wall for the fallen in DC. When I was in the Marine Corps league I helped set up the moving wall, and it broke me.

although he was never in the military i think you and my dad would find a lot in common... ....he dealt with disaster, trauma and death on a daily basis for 35 years.... but he says the hardest part of his job was seeing the grief of the families involved... .but i don;t want to hijack this thread or continue the hijack so i sent you a private message..... i don;t know which format of the forum you see but it should be a link in the upper left hand corner with a red dot next to it.....:cool:
 
I appreciate you taking the time to develop the thoughts behind your position in depth. Today is going to be a busy day for me so I probably won't be as around as much as I would like, but whether it's later today or tomorrow I'll come back to this with a response.

And please don't take this as in any way combative or snarky, but I really truly was just wanting to know for my own education' sake who might have taught and why they taught it, that verse 3 alluded to lost people. For instance, in that article that you linked from banner of Truth they explicitly refute the idea that verse 3 refers to lost people. The only ambiguity in that portion of their article was a reference to Thayer claiming that the term sarkinos referred to the lost (which I was not able to corroborate by the original source), but I believe what they wrote about sarkinos was that Thayer generically believed that term could be used to describe the lost, and not that he believed it was used in that passage to say verse three is referring to lost people.

And just one last thought, I think the doctrine of carnal Christian has to be defined appropriately because there is a spectrum of beliefs amongst Christians about what it means, and in the earlier portions of the other thread regarding abortion which started this discussion I made the explicit statement that I most likely come very close to your and ransom's position as opposed to those who believe that a person can trust Christ and then live an indefinitely long period of time "in the flesh".
 
The whole thing. You want me to cite a sentence. There is not one, a sentence I mean. That is why i pointed you to an article.
Ok, I'll treat you with the Infantile Fundamentalist gloves you need to satisfy your puny minded idea of how truth is presented.
Paul is speaking to people in Corinth.
Some of them are Christians and members of the fellowship.
Some of them think they are Christians and they are members of the fellowship.
Some of them are brand new babes in Christ, truly saved, just not familiar with mature truth yet.
God knows which are which.
You don't.
However, we can and are instructed to make discerning judgments about who is and who is not. (Phil 1:9-10a)
in 1 Cor 2:14-16 Paul shows that there are spiritual and natural people. Spiritual people have the Spirit of Christ. Natural people have not the Spirit of Christ, i.e. unsaved as you IFBers call it)
Then in v 1, Paul saus I cannot address you as Spiritual, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ.
-Here he introduces somewhat of a category that is in the middle sarkinois. But it is a different Greek word. than v.3 (which is sarkikoi. This is imortant.) However, it is not really in the middle. It is a spiritual person who can only handle simple doctrine.
And here is where my interpretation is probably different than yours. I seriously doubt that you will take the time to explain your position, which I am guessing is the standard free grace position, that these people are saved but "Carnal.".
He doesn't say that they are infants in Christ. He says I could not address you as Spiritual, I can only address you as "Infants". In other words, if you are really Spiritual people (i.e. true believers who have been regenerated and are now God's children), I can only ADDRESS you as if you are so new to it that you are like a baby. One who can only drink milk. Not a category of Christian who has been a believer a long time and just decided to live with no progress in sanctification. (You cannot find such a person in the Bible. You are either saved and growing, or not saved. And if one is saved and continues in a certain sin, the Lord will discipline that one, and sometimes kill that one. He will not allow them to walk as a "Carnal Christian." There is no such thing.)
Then he says "I Fed you with Milk." I spoke the simple gospel truths to you. You were not ready for solid food (notice it is were not are). That is reserved for mature Christians. New, baby Christians and I believe, Unsaved people, need milk. He spoke simple truth to them as he would to new baby Christians and unsaved people. Milk is the basics. Hebrews 5:11-14 The basics are the atonement, resurrection, etc.
But then he says, in vs. 2b-3a "even now you are not ready, for you are still in the flesh." Here is the rub. I think that he is saying, Some of you, the ones who are unsaved, are causing divisions, YOU ARE STILL A PERSON OF THE FLESH, referring back to 2:14-16. He cannot tell which of them are and which of them are not, so he makes a statement that is intended to shake them. You (pointing to all of them) are still unsaved. And those who are truly believers, but just baby Christians, will say to themselves, I need to check and see if I am. Those who are not true believers are shaken to finally admit, yes, I am "behaving in a human way" (v.3)
So, he is not calling them all unsaved. he isa saying that he cannot tell, but that the ones who are causing the divisions may just be in that category (v.3 of the flesh) and not true believers. he hopes they are not but cannot be sure, so he uses the extended discussion to shake their minds and hearts.
So, I reject the category of "Carnal Christian"

Now, give your position. Don't post little comments in myne where you disagree. Just take the time to type your defense of "Carnal" Christian from this passage.
What a self-righteous twit.
 
I guess I’d say men believe because they are ordained to eternal life. If man knew there’s no afterlife, he’d live in a state of anarchy and hedonism, which many do anyway.
That is what I believe Scripture teaches. God is the instigator of salvation.
Not man’s choosing to choose Him.
 
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.... Just take the time to type your defense of "Carnal" Christian from this passage.

First off, apologies to Tarheel Baptist for the continued hijack of his thread, as the discussion of Carnal Christians is only tangentially related to the Calvinist topic/theme he introduced, at best. But it ain't like there's a whole lot of legitimate theological bantering going on round here anyway, lol.

Having said that, I've stressed that my initial objection to your citation of the 1 Corinthians 3:3 passage was only raised on the basis of your theory that the term referred to lost people. I had never seen that claim ever before, and felt that you were taking liberties with the hermeneutical apparatus for your view(s) on the subject. Despite that objection, and as you've verified with your recent more lengthy post regarding your position, (as stated twice before now in this thread) I would align closer on the Carnal Christian doctrine interpretation with you than those who use it as an excuse to allow for the lost to cloak their 1-time (false) profession in the guise of Christianity (absent any fruit or tangible evidence of sanctification). My main objection to those who lean (often from the reformed branch of brethren) closer to the Lordshipper angle is that their view doesn't often sufficiently define (or allow for the real possibility of backsliding) the length of time that a person may languish in not progressing through sanctification. I cited David's example earlier in the thread as one Scriptural basis for this truth. I know that doesn't give you an in-depth view or exegetical analysis of 1 Cor 3:3, but after this brief explanation of why I asked for clarification from you on the verse in question if it is still not enough to forward our differences (while maintaining some of our agreement) I will be glad to give a more thorough analysis of my beliefs (particularly on sarkinos and v3) if you wish.
 
First off, apologies to Tarheel Baptist for the continued hijack of his thread, as the discussion of Carnal Christians is only tangentially related to the Calvinist topic/theme he introduced, at best. But it ain't like there's a whole lot of legitimate theological bantering going on round here anyway, lol.

Having said that, I've stressed that my initial objection to your citation of the 1 Corinthians 3:3 passage was only raised on the basis of your theory that the term referred to lost people. I had never seen that claim ever before, and felt that you were taking liberties with the hermeneutical apparatus for your view(s) on the subject. Despite that objection, and as you've verified with your recent more lengthy post regarding your position, (as stated twice before now in this thread) I would align closer on the Carnal Christian doctrine interpretation with you than those who use it as an excuse to allow for the lost to cloak their 1-time (false) profession in the guise of Christianity (absent any fruit or tangible evidence of sanctification). My main objection to those who lean (often from the reformed branch of brethren) closer to the Lordshipper angle is that their view doesn't often sufficiently define (or allow for the real possibility of backsliding) the length of time that a person may languish in not progressing through sanctification. I cited David's example earlier in the thread as one Scriptural basis for this truth. I know that doesn't give you an in-depth view or exegetical analysis of 1 Cor 3:3, but after this brief explanation of why I asked for clarification from you on the verse in question if it is still not enough to forward our differences (while maintaining some of our agreement) I will be glad to give a more thorough analysis of my beliefs (particularly on sarkinos and v3) if you wish.
I would think that the parable of the Prodigal Son would be sufficient enough to prove that backsliding is possible. The son is already a son...he leaves his father and squanders his life, money, and liberty in riotous living, comes to himself realizing that in his father's service, not even as a son, he would have far better, and returns, being graciously received by his father. Some try to say that this is about salvation....I don't see it that way, and it doesn't seem to be that teaching hermeneutically. One can't be a son without being a part of the family. I believe this also teaches clearly against the "Lordship" salvation theory that so many try to espouse.
 
First off, apologies to Tarheel Baptist for the continued hijack of his thread, as the discussion of Carnal Christians is only tangentially related to the Calvinist topic/theme he introduced, at best. But it ain't like there's a whole lot of legitimate theological bantering going on round here anyway, lol.

Having said that, I've stressed that my initial objection to your citation of the 1 Corinthians 3:3 passage was only raised on the basis of your theory that the term referred to lost people. I had never seen that claim ever before, and felt that you were taking liberties with the hermeneutical apparatus for your view(s) on the subject. Despite that objection, and as you've verified with your recent more lengthy post regarding your position, (as stated twice before now in this thread) I would align closer on the Carnal Christian doctrine interpretation with you than those who use it as an excuse to allow for the lost to cloak their 1-time (false) profession in the guise of Christianity (absent any fruit or tangible evidence of sanctification). My main objection to those who lean (often from the reformed branch of brethren) closer to the Lordshipper angle is that their view doesn't often sufficiently define (or allow for the real possibility of backsliding) the length of time that a person may languish in not progressing through sanctification. I cited David's example earlier in the thread as one Scriptural basis for this truth. I know that doesn't give you an in-depth view or exegetical analysis of 1 Cor 3:3, but after this brief explanation of why I asked for clarification from you on the verse in question if it is still not enough to forward our differences (while maintaining some of our agreement) I will be glad to give a more thorough analysis of my beliefs (particularly on sarkinos and v3) if you wish.
Not a problem as far as I’m concerned…I think the subject is applicable.
John MacArthur on the subject:
Contemporary theologians have fabricated an entire category for this type of person – the “carnal Christian.” Who knows how many unregenerate persons have been lulled into a false sense of spiritual security by the suggestion that they are merely carnal? Christians can and do behave in carnal ways, but nothing in Scripture suggests that a real Christian might pursue a life-style of unbroken indifference or antagonism toward the things of God. Christians do not masquerade as children of the devil. The very reverse is true; Satan pretends to be an angel of light, and his servants imitate the children of righteousness (2 Corinthians 11:14-15).
 
Not a problem as far as I’m concerned…I think the subject is applicable.
John MacArthur on the subject:
Contemporary theologians have fabricated an entire category for this type of person – the “carnal Christian.” Who knows how many unregenerate persons have been lulled into a false sense of spiritual security by the suggestion that they are merelySorryse is true; Satan pretends to be an angel of light, and his servants imitate the children of righteousness (2 Corinthians 11:14-15).
Sorry, not a fan of JMac and his ideological gobblygook!
 
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