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Why are people really leaving the church?
- Thread starter Smellin Coffee
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Link didn't work for me, but I thought I saw something on facebook that sounded like this
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Well, OK, here goes:
I don't fully agree with the last three bits before he says "Church, YOU are the problem" -- he basically said that people were NOT leaving the church because:
Take the middle one; certainly, some people leave churches because they want to "make a living", and they want to devote their time to being successful and not to being in church. They promise themselves that when they "make it", they will get back into church (but that's just a trap, and they never do). Paul wrote about Demas leaving him, because he "loved this present world". It does happen.
I don't have as much problem with #1 and #3; I don't think that these are reasons why people leave a church. I think American culture has gone downhill, but that may not be true of every nation. The message of the Bible is does not belong to any one nation or race or economic class. The Bible predicts a great apostasy, and we are seeing that today. It really is true that Jesus is coming back, and signs are all there. Noah talked about "rain" for over 100 years, but it happened. I see the lack of morality, but it is following the path the the Scriptures tell us.
He then lists his real reasons in the article. My thoughts about them:
1. Cannot really speak to this, as we don't do a "show" -- in fact, we try to avoid making Sunday an entertainment
2. Not fully explained as to what "church talk" is unhelpful - there are some people who enjoy learning doctrine; others may not care as much.
3. As I understand this point, he wants churches to co-operate with other groups in the community more instead of being insular. There are issues with this point for those that believe in separation.
4. Fighting over trivial matters, he says. That sounds like the ecumenical teaching to make more and more items of faith "non-essential" so that larger groups can co-operate. What new evangelicalism has shown is that completely bankrupts faith, leaving no essentials at all.
I don't fully agree with the last three bits before he says "Church, YOU are the problem" -- he basically said that people were NOT leaving the church because:
- the culture is perverse and beyond help
- people are chasing money, sex, and material things
- gays, Muslims, atheists, and pop stars have "screwed up" the common man's morality
Take the middle one; certainly, some people leave churches because they want to "make a living", and they want to devote their time to being successful and not to being in church. They promise themselves that when they "make it", they will get back into church (but that's just a trap, and they never do). Paul wrote about Demas leaving him, because he "loved this present world". It does happen.
I don't have as much problem with #1 and #3; I don't think that these are reasons why people leave a church. I think American culture has gone downhill, but that may not be true of every nation. The message of the Bible is does not belong to any one nation or race or economic class. The Bible predicts a great apostasy, and we are seeing that today. It really is true that Jesus is coming back, and signs are all there. Noah talked about "rain" for over 100 years, but it happened. I see the lack of morality, but it is following the path the the Scriptures tell us.
He then lists his real reasons in the article. My thoughts about them:
1. Cannot really speak to this, as we don't do a "show" -- in fact, we try to avoid making Sunday an entertainment
2. Not fully explained as to what "church talk" is unhelpful - there are some people who enjoy learning doctrine; others may not care as much.
3. As I understand this point, he wants churches to co-operate with other groups in the community more instead of being insular. There are issues with this point for those that believe in separation.
4. Fighting over trivial matters, he says. That sounds like the ecumenical teaching to make more and more items of faith "non-essential" so that larger groups can co-operate. What new evangelicalism has shown is that completely bankrupts faith, leaving no essentials at all.
Smellin Coffee said:
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall "depart from the faith", giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;"
"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
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The Reformed go on Sat night, so they get a real head start.T-Bone said:prophet said:And the lunch buffet is only open til 2.T-Bone said:Sure there are many reasons...could be because it's noon!
Gotta beat those Methodist to the cafeteria!
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Mostly because God graciously draws them to the cafeteria in such a way that ghey cannot resist making them hungry in a way that they think it is themselves even though it is God. Their hunger for the cafeteria is not only an irresistible drawing but an effectual calling that satisfies the hunger thst they never knew they had. It is imited to them that is is ecfectual in as they alone partake of the cafeteria buffet and they perservere because of their effectual filling at the buffet.prophet said:The Reformed go on Sat night, so they get a real head start.T-Bone said:prophet said:And the lunch buffet is only open til 2.T-Bone said:Sure there are many reasons...could be because it's noon!
Gotta beat those Methodist to the cafeteria!
Or something like that
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The cafeteria is free, but only for those who were drawn there against their will. If anyone chooses to go there, because it looks and smells good, they may or may not be served. But they will be allowed to sit there and ponder whether they were drawn there or not indefinitely.ItinerantPreacher said:Mostly because God graciously draws them to the cafeteria in such a way that ghey cannot resist making them hungry in a way that they think it is themselves even though it is God. Their hunger for the cafeteria is not only an irresistible drawing but an effectual calling that satisfies the hunger thst they never knew they had. It is imited to them that is is ecfectual in as they alone partake of the cafeteria buffet and they perservere because of their effectual filling at the buffet.prophet said:The Reformed go on Sat night, so they get a real head start.T-Bone said:prophet said:And the lunch buffet is only open til 2.T-Bone said:Sure there are many reasons...could be because it's noon!
Gotta beat those Methodist to the cafeteria!
Or something like that
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subllibrm said:
You see, this just shows how evil you are, worse even than those evil men of whom Jesus said, "9 Or what man is there of you [you being evil], whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a scone?"
breslau said:
"And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away."
If these "what's in it for me folk" leave for the reasons stated in the above article then wait til persecution and prison comes to the American church, you'll see a real exodus then.