Why I Am Leaving The Church Growth Movement

[16KJV11]

Thought provoking article...
What think ye?
http://www.randywhiteministries.org/2014/01/02/leaving-church-growth-movement/

 

[Smellin Coffee]

These community groups gather for “Bible study,” which is almost always a double misnomer. The only Scripture used will be out-of-context references that came from the latest book by the latest Hollywood-looks celebrity pastor who gathered his thoughts (from the internet?), and allowed a nameless editor to work them into something profitable. The group will neither study the passages, nor the book itself. They will simply read a chapter before they come, spend 45 minutes talking about the parts they liked, share how the chapter made them feel about themselves as well as any insights gained, then go away and tell their friends about their marvelous Bible study.

I've been involved in dozens of Bible studies in home group setting and never once had a situation like this. This is quite the broadbrush.

The sermon will often be aimed toward raising up an army of Christians who adopt the orphan, visit the imprisoned, and blog for social justice.

I guess the guy doesn't read the Old Testament prophets.

That's as far as I got to this point. Crazy stuff thus far...

 

[16KJV11]

These community groups gather for “Bible study,” which is almost always a double misnomer. The only Scripture used will be out-of-context references that came from the latest book by the latest Hollywood-looks celebrity pastor who gathered his thoughts (from the internet?), and allowed a nameless editor to work them into something profitable. The group will neither study the passages, nor the book itself. They will simply read a chapter before they come, spend 45 minutes talking about the parts they liked, share how the chapter made them feel about themselves as well as any insights gained, then go away and tell their friends about their marvelous Bible study.

I've been involved in dozens of Bible studies in home group setting and never once had a situation like this. This is quite the broadbrush.

The sermon will often be aimed toward raising up an army of Christians who adopt the orphan, visit the imprisoned, and blog for social justice.

I guess the guy doesn't read the Old Testament prophets.

That's as far as I got to this point. Crazy stuff thus far...

I have not been involved in a lot of home Bible studies, but I have an acquaintance (I wouldn't call him an IFB by any stretch of the imagination) who has hosted home Bible studies that emanate from his mega-church and he was criticized for wanting to bring 'doctrine' into the discussion of the study.
I can understand the author's point on this issue.
In the church I pastor, I have never forbidden the 'open forum' type of Sunday School class.  In fact, many times on Wednesday nights, I'll open the service up for questions.  But one thing that I have noticed that can and does happen frequently:  Often times someone will monopolize the discussion and take it in different direction that was intended in the lesson.  Subjects, many times non-Biblical take up the lion share of the teaching time.
That is why I am not a big proponent of 'home Bible studies', unless the teacher can be trusted to keep the subject on task.

Another thing that I agree with this pastor on:
I have a friend in California who attends a church where they do many many community service projects.
I have no problem with these, except what is often left out is "The Gospel"
What good is it to help the poor, re-build homes, etc. etc. etc., if they main focus, Jesus Christ and the salvation that He came to give is omitted.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

These community groups gather for “Bible study,” which is almost always a double misnomer. The only Scripture used will be out-of-context references that came from the latest book by the latest Hollywood-looks celebrity pastor who gathered his thoughts (from the internet?), and allowed a nameless editor to work them into something profitable. The group will neither study the passages, nor the book itself. They will simply read a chapter before they come, spend 45 minutes talking about the parts they liked, share how the chapter made them feel about themselves as well as any insights gained, then go away and tell their friends about their marvelous Bible study.

I've been involved in dozens of Bible studies in home group setting and never once had a situation like this. This is quite the broadbrush.

The sermon will often be aimed toward raising up an army of Christians who adopt the orphan, visit the imprisoned, and blog for social justice.

I guess the guy doesn't read the Old Testament prophets.

That's as far as I got to this point. Crazy stuff thus far...

I have not been involved in a lot of home Bible studies, but I have an acquaintance (I wouldn't call him an IFB by any stretch of the imagination) who has hosted home Bible studies that emanate from his mega-church and he was criticized for wanting to bring 'doctrine' into the discussion of the study.
I can understand the author's point on this issue.
In the church I pastor, I have never forbidden the 'open forum' type of Sunday School class.  In fact, many times on Wednesday nights, I'll open the service up for questions.  But one thing that I have noticed that can and does happen frequently:  Often times someone will monopolize the discussion and take it in different direction that was intended in the lesson.  Subjects, many times non-Biblical take up the lion share of the teaching time.
That is why I am not a big proponent of 'home Bible studies', unless the teacher can be trusted to keep the subject on task.

Another thing that I agree with this pastor on:
I have a friend in California who attends a church where they do many many community service projects.
I have no problem with these, except what is often left out is "The Gospel"
What good is it to help the poor, re-build homes, etc. etc. etc., if they main focus, Jesus Christ and the salvation that He came to give is omitted.

I don't doubt that it happens but the broadbrush is too wide. Like in IFBdom, the mega churches don't necessarily reflect the community Bible churches and their approach.

Concerning the gospel?

Jesus:

“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”

Jesus forgot to mention the proclamation of faith alone in His death, burial and resurrection in His fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy.

 

[16KJV11]

These community groups gather for “Bible study,” which is almost always a double misnomer. The only Scripture used will be out-of-context references that came from the latest book by the latest Hollywood-looks celebrity pastor who gathered his thoughts (from the internet?), and allowed a nameless editor to work them into something profitable. The group will neither study the passages, nor the book itself. They will simply read a chapter before they come, spend 45 minutes talking about the parts they liked, share how the chapter made them feel about themselves as well as any insights gained, then go away and tell their friends about their marvelous Bible study.

I've been involved in dozens of Bible studies in home group setting and never once had a situation like this. This is quite the broadbrush.

The sermon will often be aimed toward raising up an army of Christians who adopt the orphan, visit the imprisoned, and blog for social justice.

I guess the guy doesn't read the Old Testament prophets.

That's as far as I got to this point. Crazy stuff thus far...

I have not been involved in a lot of home Bible studies, but I have an acquaintance (I wouldn't call him an IFB by any stretch of the imagination) who has hosted home Bible studies that emanate from his mega-church and he was criticized for wanting to bring 'doctrine' into the discussion of the study.
I can understand the author's point on this issue.
In the church I pastor, I have never forbidden the 'open forum' type of Sunday School class.  In fact, many times on Wednesday nights, I'll open the service up for questions.  But one thing that I have noticed that can and does happen frequently:  Often times someone will monopolize the discussion and take it in different direction that was intended in the lesson.  Subjects, many times non-Biblical take up the lion share of the teaching time.
That is why I am not a big proponent of 'home Bible studies', unless the teacher can be trusted to keep the subject on task.

Another thing that I agree with this pastor on:
I have a friend in California who attends a church where they do many many community service projects.
I have no problem with these, except what is often left out is "The Gospel"
What good is it to help the poor, re-build homes, etc. etc. etc., if they main focus, Jesus Christ and the salvation that He came to give is omitted.

I don't doubt that it happens but the broadbrush is too wide. Like in IFBdom, the mega churches don't necessarily reflect the community Bible churches and their approach.

Concerning the gospel?

Jesus:

“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”

Jesus forgot to mention the proclamation of faith alone in His death, burial and resurrection in His fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy.

What exactly is the good news Jesus spoke of?
Go ye therefore into all the poor countries and start soup kitchens?

 

[rsc2a]

"I come to bring freedom,  healing,  communion with God, the restoration of all things. In short,  I being shalom,  and you can participate. "

 

[Smellin Coffee]

These community groups gather for “Bible study,” which is almost always a double misnomer. The only Scripture used will be out-of-context references that came from the latest book by the latest Hollywood-looks celebrity pastor who gathered his thoughts (from the internet?), and allowed a nameless editor to work them into something profitable. The group will neither study the passages, nor the book itself. They will simply read a chapter before they come, spend 45 minutes talking about the parts they liked, share how the chapter made them feel about themselves as well as any insights gained, then go away and tell their friends about their marvelous Bible study.

I've been involved in dozens of Bible studies in home group setting and never once had a situation like this. This is quite the broadbrush.

The sermon will often be aimed toward raising up an army of Christians who adopt the orphan, visit the imprisoned, and blog for social justice.

I guess the guy doesn't read the Old Testament prophets.

That's as far as I got to this point. Crazy stuff thus far...

I have not been involved in a lot of home Bible studies, but I have an acquaintance (I wouldn't call him an IFB by any stretch of the imagination) who has hosted home Bible studies that emanate from his mega-church and he was criticized for wanting to bring 'doctrine' into the discussion of the study.
I can understand the author's point on this issue.
In the church I pastor, I have never forbidden the 'open forum' type of Sunday School class.  In fact, many times on Wednesday nights, I'll open the service up for questions.  But one thing that I have noticed that can and does happen frequently:  Often times someone will monopolize the discussion and take it in different direction that was intended in the lesson.  Subjects, many times non-Biblical take up the lion share of the teaching time.
That is why I am not a big proponent of 'home Bible studies', unless the teacher can be trusted to keep the subject on task.

Another thing that I agree with this pastor on:
I have a friend in California who attends a church where they do many many community service projects.
I have no problem with these, except what is often left out is "The Gospel"
What good is it to help the poor, re-build homes, etc. etc. etc., if they main focus, Jesus Christ and the salvation that He came to give is omitted.

I don't doubt that it happens but the broadbrush is too wide. Like in IFBdom, the mega churches don't necessarily reflect the community Bible churches and their approach.

Concerning the gospel?

Jesus:

“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”

Jesus forgot to mention the proclamation of faith alone in His death, burial and resurrection in His fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy.

What exactly is the good news Jesus spoke of?
Go ye therefore into all the poor countries and start soup kitchens?

Start with Matthew 5.

Oh, and concerning the help for those in need, He gave the illustration of the Good Samaritan: the guy who didn't have the correct theology or genetics was going to inherit eternal life and those with the correct theology and right genetics weren't. So you aren't too far off.

 

[16KJV11]

These community groups gather for “Bible study,” which is almost always a double misnomer. The only Scripture used will be out-of-context references that came from the latest book by the latest Hollywood-looks celebrity pastor who gathered his thoughts (from the internet?), and allowed a nameless editor to work them into something profitable. The group will neither study the passages, nor the book itself. They will simply read a chapter before they come, spend 45 minutes talking about the parts they liked, share how the chapter made them feel about themselves as well as any insights gained, then go away and tell their friends about their marvelous Bible study.

I've been involved in dozens of Bible studies in home group setting and never once had a situation like this. This is quite the broadbrush.

The sermon will often be aimed toward raising up an army of Christians who adopt the orphan, visit the imprisoned, and blog for social justice.

I guess the guy doesn't read the Old Testament prophets.

That's as far as I got to this point. Crazy stuff thus far...

I have not been involved in a lot of home Bible studies, but I have an acquaintance (I wouldn't call him an IFB by any stretch of the imagination) who has hosted home Bible studies that emanate from his mega-church and he was criticized for wanting to bring 'doctrine' into the discussion of the study.
I can understand the author's point on this issue.
In the church I pastor, I have never forbidden the 'open forum' type of Sunday School class.  In fact, many times on Wednesday nights, I'll open the service up for questions.  But one thing that I have noticed that can and does happen frequently:  Often times someone will monopolize the discussion and take it in different direction that was intended in the lesson.  Subjects, many times non-Biblical take up the lion share of the teaching time.
That is why I am not a big proponent of 'home Bible studies', unless the teacher can be trusted to keep the subject on task.

Another thing that I agree with this pastor on:
I have a friend in California who attends a church where they do many many community service projects.
I have no problem with these, except what is often left out is "The Gospel"
What good is it to help the poor, re-build homes, etc. etc. etc., if they main focus, Jesus Christ and the salvation that He came to give is omitted.

I don't doubt that it happens but the broadbrush is too wide. Like in IFBdom, the mega churches don't necessarily reflect the community Bible churches and their approach.

Concerning the gospel?

Jesus:

“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”

Jesus forgot to mention the proclamation of faith alone in His death, burial and resurrection in His fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy.

What exactly is the good news Jesus spoke of?
Go ye therefore into all the poor countries and start soup kitchens?

Start with Matthew 5.

Oh, and concerning the help for those in need, He gave the illustration of the Good Samaritan: the guy who didn't have the correct theology or genetics was going to inherit eternal life and those with the correct theology and right genetics weren't. So you aren't too far off.

No problem with feeding the needy, clothing the naked, etc.
Need to do it.
However, if you feed the poor, clothe the naked, etc. etc. and they die without Christ, well, I think you get the picture.

 

[Izdaari]

Agreed that size is no guarantee, and not even an indicator, of a church being good.

My current church is relatively small (maybe 100 at our main Sunday service), and I'm perfectly fine with that.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

These community groups gather for “Bible study,” which is almost always a double misnomer. The only Scripture used will be out-of-context references that came from the latest book by the latest Hollywood-looks celebrity pastor who gathered his thoughts (from the internet?), and allowed a nameless editor to work them into something profitable. The group will neither study the passages, nor the book itself. They will simply read a chapter before they come, spend 45 minutes talking about the parts they liked, share how the chapter made them feel about themselves as well as any insights gained, then go away and tell their friends about their marvelous Bible study.

I've been involved in dozens of Bible studies in home group setting and never once had a situation like this. This is quite the broadbrush.

The sermon will often be aimed toward raising up an army of Christians who adopt the orphan, visit the imprisoned, and blog for social justice.

I guess the guy doesn't read the Old Testament prophets.

That's as far as I got to this point. Crazy stuff thus far...

I have not been involved in a lot of home Bible studies, but I have an acquaintance (I wouldn't call him an IFB by any stretch of the imagination) who has hosted home Bible studies that emanate from his mega-church and he was criticized for wanting to bring 'doctrine' into the discussion of the study.
I can understand the author's point on this issue.
In the church I pastor, I have never forbidden the 'open forum' type of Sunday School class.  In fact, many times on Wednesday nights, I'll open the service up for questions.  But one thing that I have noticed that can and does happen frequently:  Often times someone will monopolize the discussion and take it in different direction that was intended in the lesson.  Subjects, many times non-Biblical take up the lion share of the teaching time.
That is why I am not a big proponent of 'home Bible studies', unless the teacher can be trusted to keep the subject on task.

Another thing that I agree with this pastor on:
I have a friend in California who attends a church where they do many many community service projects.
I have no problem with these, except what is often left out is "The Gospel"
What good is it to help the poor, re-build homes, etc. etc. etc., if they main focus, Jesus Christ and the salvation that He came to give is omitted.

I don't doubt that it happens but the broadbrush is too wide. Like in IFBdom, the mega churches don't necessarily reflect the community Bible churches and their approach.

Concerning the gospel?

Jesus:

“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”

Jesus forgot to mention the proclamation of faith alone in His death, burial and resurrection in His fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy.

What exactly is the good news Jesus spoke of?
Go ye therefore into all the poor countries and start soup kitchens?

Start with Matthew 5.

Oh, and concerning the help for those in need, He gave the illustration of the Good Samaritan: the guy who didn't have the correct theology or genetics was going to inherit eternal life and those with the correct theology and right genetics weren't. So you aren't too far off.

No problem with feeding the needy, clothing the naked, etc.
Need to do it.
However, if you feed the poor, clothe the naked, etc. etc. and they die without Christ, well, I think you get the picture.

And when Jesus said to help those impoverished, did He mention we are to do so solely in the context of evangelism? Not saying at all that it is wrong to evangelize in such situations, just wondering where such benevolence was expected in an effort to evangelize. And if so, was it done that way in the OT?

 

[Mathew Ward]

These community groups gather for “Bible study,” which is almost always a double misnomer. The only Scripture used will be out-of-context references that came from the latest book by the latest Hollywood-looks celebrity pastor who gathered his thoughts (from the internet?), and allowed a nameless editor to work them into something profitable. The group will neither study the passages, nor the book itself. They will simply read a chapter before they come, spend 45 minutes talking about the parts they liked, share how the chapter made them feel about themselves as well as any insights gained, then go away and tell their friends about their marvelous Bible study.

I've been involved in dozens of Bible studies in home group setting and never once had a situation like this. This is quite the broadbrush.

The sermon will often be aimed toward raising up an army of Christians who adopt the orphan, visit the imprisoned, and blog for social justice.

I guess the guy doesn't read the Old Testament prophets.

That's as far as I got to this point. Crazy stuff thus far...

I have not been involved in a lot of home Bible studies, but I have an acquaintance (I wouldn't call him an IFB by any stretch of the imagination) who has hosted home Bible studies that emanate from his mega-church and he was criticized for wanting to bring 'doctrine' into the discussion of the study.
I can understand the author's point on this issue.
In the church I pastor, I have never forbidden the 'open forum' type of Sunday School class.  In fact, many times on Wednesday nights, I'll open the service up for questions.  But one thing that I have noticed that can and does happen frequently:  Often times someone will monopolize the discussion and take it in different direction that was intended in the lesson.  Subjects, many times non-Biblical take up the lion share of the teaching time.
That is why I am not a big proponent of 'home Bible studies', unless the teacher can be trusted to keep the subject on task.

Another thing that I agree with this pastor on:
I have a friend in California who attends a church where they do many many community service projects.
I have no problem with these, except what is often left out is "The Gospel"
What good is it to help the poor, re-build homes, etc. etc. etc., if they main focus, Jesus Christ and the salvation that He came to give is omitted.

I don't doubt that it happens but the broadbrush is too wide. Like in IFBdom, the mega churches don't necessarily reflect the community Bible churches and their approach.

Concerning the gospel?

Jesus:

“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”

Jesus forgot to mention the proclamation of faith alone in His death, burial and resurrection in His fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy.

What exactly is the good news Jesus spoke of?
Go ye therefore into all the poor countries and start soup kitchens?

Start with Matthew 5.

Oh, and concerning the help for those in need, He gave the illustration of the Good Samaritan: the guy who didn't have the correct theology or genetics was going to inherit eternal life and those with the correct theology and right genetics weren't. So you aren't too far off.

No problem with feeding the needy, clothing the naked, etc.
Need to do it.
However, if you feed the poor, clothe the naked, etc. etc. and they die without Christ, well, I think you get the picture.

Matthew 5:16  Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

I wonder if doing those things have a greater impact then the 1-2-3 pray after me way?

I'm not saying we shouldn't open up the dialog and witness as the Spirit leads, but maybe when we show love and concern the gospel will be received better.

But why we do feed the poor or clothe the naked?

 

[rsc2a]

Because it is the right thing to do. 

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Smellin Coffee:
And when Jesus said to help those impoverished, did He mention we are to do so solely in the context of evangelism? Not saying at all that it is wrong to evangelize in such situations, just wondering where such benevolence was expected in an effort to evangelize. And if so, was it done that way in the OT?

If we care enough to meet their basic needs of food, clothing and shelter, WHY would we not share with them how they can escape hell?
"I love you but only enough to make you more comfortable on your way to hell"?!
Please.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Smellin Coffee:
And when Jesus said to help those impoverished, did He mention we are to do so solely in the context of evangelism? Not saying at all that it is wrong to evangelize in such situations, just wondering where such benevolence was expected in an effort to evangelize. And if so, was it done that way in the OT?

If we care enough to meet their basic needs of food, clothing and shelter, WHY would we not share with them how they can escape hell?
"I love you but only enough to make you more comfortable on your way to hell"?!
Please.

Not at all saying one wouldn't or shouldn't. What I am suggesting is motivation: evangelism vs. love. One can love without evangelism and one can evangelize without love. Do we withold our "love" when our enemies who we KNOW won't listen are in need? Do we forgive when those who have done us the cruelest of violations want nothing to do with Jesus Christ? Or do we simply abandon generosity because one becomes "spiritually fulfilled" with the gospel?

Jesus healed without even telling people who He was. He saw the need and met it. Sometimes the "gospel" came later and sometimes it didn't at all.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Jesus healed without even telling people who He was.

Healing them demonstrated who He was for those with eyes to see.  I agree with your point, though.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Jesus healed without even telling people who He was.

Healing them demonstrated who He was for those with eyes to see.  I agree with your point, though.

No doubt. But like Mathew Ward said earlier, our works themselves glorify God.

 

[christundivided]

Jesus healed without even telling people who He was.

Healing them demonstrated who He was for those with eyes to see.  I agree with your point, though.

No doubt. But like Mathew Ward said earlier, our works themselves glorify God.

There wasn't anyone who didn't know who He.... claimed to be. While they may have not known at the very moment.... they found pretty quick.

Either way, to your point. I remember when "pizza" revivals became popular. The typical evangelist would throw a free pizza party to generate attendance. I can remember attending one these "pizza parties" in which they locked the doors and precede to force everyone in attendance to "hear the Gospel".... I couldn't help but question the honesty of those who organized the event.

 

[Mathew Ward]

Jesus healed without even telling people who He was.

Healing them demonstrated who He was for those with eyes to see.  I agree with your point, though.

No doubt. But like Mathew Ward said earlier, our works themselves glorify God.

There wasn't anyone who didn't know who He.... claimed to be. While they may have not known at the very moment.... they found pretty quick.

Either way, to your point. I remember when "pizza" revivals became popular. The typical evangelist would throw a free pizza party to generate attendance. I can remember attending one these "pizza parties" in which they locked the doors and precede to force everyone in attendance to "hear the Gospel".... I couldn't help but question the honesty of those who organized the event.

I don't think everyone knew who is was or who he claimed to be.

 

[christundivided]

Jesus healed without even telling people who He was.

Healing them demonstrated who He was for those with eyes to see.  I agree with your point, though.

No doubt. But like Mathew Ward said earlier, our works themselves glorify God.

There wasn't anyone who didn't know who He.... claimed to be. While they may have not known at the very moment.... they found pretty quick.

Either way, to your point. I remember when "pizza" revivals became popular. The typical evangelist would throw a free pizza party to generate attendance. I can remember attending one these "pizza parties" in which they locked the doors and precede to force everyone in attendance to "hear the Gospel".... I couldn't help but question the honesty of those who organized the event.

I don't think everyone knew who is was or who he claimed to be.

Do you have a particular group of people in mind or are you referencing little babies and the mentally ill?

 

[Mathew Ward]

Jesus healed without even telling people who He was.

Healing them demonstrated who He was for those with eyes to see.  I agree with your point, though.

No doubt. But like Mathew Ward said earlier, our works themselves glorify God.

There wasn't anyone who didn't know who He.... claimed to be. While they may have not known at the very moment.... they found pretty quick.

Either way, to your point. I remember when "pizza" revivals became popular. The typical evangelist would throw a free pizza party to generate attendance. I can remember attending one these "pizza parties" in which they locked the doors and precede to force everyone in attendance to "hear the Gospel".... I couldn't help but question the honesty of those who organized the event.

I don't think everyone knew who is was or who he claimed to be.

Do you have a particular group of people in mind or are you referencing little babies and the mentally ill?

Matthew 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Cæsarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.