Why I left the Sword of the Lord crowd

[FundNoMore]

Galatians 6:1 tells us "Brethren (fellow Christians), if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted."


I used to be a strong supporter of the Sword of the Lord.  I had a regular subscription that I renewed anytime I went to a Sword meeting.  I attended the national conference, when I could, and many years bought the tape sets of all the meetings when I couldn't attend.  It was on one of those tapes that I heard a message that broke my heart and led me to walk away.


The speaker was, of course, a pastor and he told the following story.  While in his church office, he got a phone call from someone who reported one of his Sunday School teachers was going out to nightclubs (his words) with his wife and they were drinking alcohol.  The speaker said that when he got off the phone he called the Sunday School teacher at home and relayed what he had just been told.  The  teacher admitted that it was true and stated that he would resign his Sunday School class the next week.  The speaker then told of how he said, " Oh no, you have resigned your Sunday School class right now", and he continued to talk about all the self righteous things he told this man.  As I was listening to this "sermon",  I wondered who it was that made the initial phone call and how they knew this man was out drinking with his wife?  That never came up.  I also wondered why the "pastor" didn't make a personal visit to the SS teacher's home and ask what was wrong in his life, instead he just made an impersonal and cowardly phone call.  I can tell you that if you have a person in a highly visible position in a church (like a Sunday School teacher)  and they are out publicly drinking, there are some serious emotional/spiritual/personal problems going on.  At no point did this  speakersay he inquired about the teacher's (or his wife's) well being.  Nor did he relay that he ever asked to pray with them or for them.  Instead he pridefully talked about how he got rid of this sinner.  The message didn't nearly upset me as much as the reaction from the crowd.  Throughout the speaker's  boasting, I kept hearing men in the audience yelling "Amen!" and "Amen!"  I wondered if anyone cared about the teacher and his wife?

I was already dealing with my own issues and realized if this kind of Phariseeism was being promoted by the Sword of the Lord, I knew I could no longer be a supporter.

 

[Twisted]

Welcome to the forum!

I agree with you!

I heard the President of the United States say and do horrible things!  Horrible!

I have been a follower of the United States, but I'm revoking my citizenship now!

Yeah, that's about as dumb as dumping all over the Sword for reading one jerks sermon.

 

[IFB X-Files]

I was already dealing with my own issues and realized if this kind of Phariseeism was being promoted by the Sword of the Lord, I knew I could no longer be a supporter.

(For others not new to the forum, please forgive me if you've heard this story before.)

Years ago I was in a staff meeting.  During the meeting, one aged, well-known-former-missionary (Who was on staff now) told a story of a pastor friend of his who had a big meeting at his large church and had some group in for the meeting.  He said that after this event, which lasted a couple of days and was very well attended, the leader of this "group" informed the pastor that they "required" a minimum of a $3,000 love-offering.  They, of course, failed to mention this before coming to the meeting.

The pastor, upset about the demand, instructed the treasurer to give them a check for $3,000, even though the offerings collected for this group far exceeded $3,000.

The pastor and staff at our staff meeting whooped and "Amened".  I just sat there looking this guy in the face and asked him, "So what did he do with the extra money?  Return it?"

He, of course, started to sputter and say he had no idea.  So I told him that his friend, the crook, the thief, the liar, had stolen this money collected for this group ("Every dollar that comes in tonight will go to this group!" - you've heard it before) and put it in the churches bank account.  His "pastor friend" should be brought up on charges for fraud.

You could have heard a pin drop.

So was it better for me to confront the error then, or go and write some story on a forum?

Did I quit the church because of the "amens" coming from the other staff?  No.

Have a problem with some idiot?  Call or write to him directly.  Man up.  Don't blame the Sword for this.  (Write them and let them know too)  Blame the moron.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Welcome to the forum!

I agree with you!

I heard the President of the United States say and do horrible things!  Horrible!

I have been a follower of the United States, but I'm revoking my citizenship now!

Yeah, that's about as dumb as dumping all over the Sword for reading one jerks sermon.

That is so true, one jerks sermon could be an anomaly.
But if you?re a regular reader of the Sword, you realize that it isn?t.
The Sword is the equivalent to the Buggy Whip Review...and uses the same format.

 

[Izdaari]

Welcome, FundNoMore!

Hi, I'm Izzy, the forum's token Episcopalian.  I was IFB once (GARBC, a relatively sane version), but not since I was 12.

 

[sword]

I was already dealing with my own issues and realized if this kind of Phariseeism was being promoted by the Sword of the Lord, I knew I could no longer be a supporter.

(For others not new to the forum, please forgive me if you've heard this story before.)

Years ago I was in a staff meeting.  During the meeting, one aged, well-known-former-missionary (Who was on staff now) told a story of a pastor friend of his who had a big meeting at his large church and had some group in for the meeting.  He said that after this event, which lasted a couple of days and was very well attended, the leader of this "group" informed the pastor that they "required" a minimum of a $3,000 love-offering.  They, of course, failed to mention this before coming to the meeting.

The pastor, upset about the demand, instructed the treasurer to give them a check for $3,000, even though the offerings collected for this group far exceeded $3,000.

The pastor and staff at our staff meeting whooped and "Amened".  I just sat there looking this guy in the face and asked him, "So what did he do with the extra money?  Return it?"

He, of course, started to sputter and say he had no idea.  So I told him that his friend, the crook, the thief, the liar, had stolen this money collected for this group ("Every dollar that comes in tonight will go to this group!" - you've heard it before) and put it in the churches bank account.  His "pastor friend" should be brought up on charges for fraud.

You could have heard a pin drop.

So was it better for me to confront the error then, or go and write some story on a forum?

Did I quit the church because of the "amens" coming from the other staff?  No.

Have a problem with some idiot?  Call or write to him directly.  Man up.  Don't blame the Sword for this.  (Write them and let them know too)  Blame the moron.

If they were general offerings taken during the event then the pastor was under no obligation to give it all to the group.

If the pastor announced each time they took an offering it was for the group, then he was ethically bound to give it all to them.

Details matter and since we don't know exactly what the old man said or even if he knew all the details then it hard to pass judgment.

If the "designated" offerings were less than $3000 then the pastor was not obligated to pay the $3000 because they did not agree to it before hand. 

 

[voicecrying]

... then it hard to pass judgment.

You new around here?

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I was already dealing with my own issues and realized if this kind of Phariseeism was being promoted by the Sword of the Lord, I knew I could no longer be a supporter.

(For others not new to the forum, please forgive me if you've heard this story before.)

Years ago I was in a staff meeting.  During the meeting, one aged, well-known-former-missionary (Who was on staff now) told a story of a pastor friend of his who had a big meeting at his large church and had some group in for the meeting.  He said that after this event, which lasted a couple of days and was very well attended, the leader of this "group" informed the pastor that they "required" a minimum of a $3,000 love-offering.  They, of course, failed to mention this before coming to the meeting.

The pastor, upset about the demand, instructed the treasurer to give them a check for $3,000, even though the offerings collected for this group far exceeded $3,000.

The pastor and staff at our staff meeting whooped and "Amened".  I just sat there looking this guy in the face and asked him, "So what did he do with the extra money?  Return it?"

He, of course, started to sputter and say he had no idea.  So I told him that his friend, the crook, the thief, the liar, had stolen this money collected for this group ("Every dollar that comes in tonight will go to this group!" - you've heard it before) and put it in the churches bank account.  His "pastor friend" should be brought up on charges for fraud.

You could have heard a pin drop.

So was it better for me to confront the error then, or go and write some story on a forum?

Did I quit the church because of the "amens" coming from the other staff?  No.

Have a problem with some idiot?  Call or write to him directly.  Man up.  Don't blame the Sword for this.  (Write them and let them know too)  Blame the moron.

If they were general offerings taken during the event then the pastor was under no obligation to give it all to the group.

If the pastor announced each time they took an offering it was for the group, then he was ethically bound to give it all to them.

Details matter and since we don't know exactly what the old man said or even if he knew all the details then it hard to pass judgment.

If the "designated" offerings were less than $3000 then the pastor was not obligated to pay the $3000 because they did not agree to it before hand.

I?m also sure they probably had money invested in hotel and meals for the group that could have been paid out of the offering. The problem I would have is the ?Every dollar that comes in will go to this group? statement.

 

[Dr. Bob]

The lies associated with the Sword and its "crowd" are legend.  When I was a young believer I read an issue and went to my pastor (a historic fundamental Baptist leading voice) and asked it this was a good paper to read.

He explained that there were many good things in it. Sermons by "giants" of the faith.  He added that many sermons were "altered" to fit the viewpoint of the Sword, not reflecting what the speaker had originally meant.  He said there would be exaggerations and boasting to make events/evangelists "popular".  He showed me certain men (featured in the paper) and what was "behind the scenes" in their lives and ministries.

This candid personal sharing allowed me (a high schooler) to read and study carefully.  It showed me that while I could be blessed by the Sword, I could never be part of the "Sword crowd".  I love John R, appreciated his Gospel preaching. I even petted his horse.  But so glad I never got caught in the web of the IFBxxx bunch.  Made my stand at 16 and 55 years later it has all been proven to verify I made the right call.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

This blogger references a horrible, biblically ignorant, hermeneutically illiterate sermon in the Sword of the Lord.
IF this is what you get from the IFB's leading evangelist (Hamblin), what must the 'followers' be like?

http://pastorryanhayden.github.io/rebuttal-get-thee-unto-great-men/

 

[HammondCheese]

How exactly does one "leave" The Sword?  I get what you're saying, but it's ultimately nothing more than a paper with some conferences.  Choosing not to read it or attend their conferences is nothing more than just that.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[prophet]

How exactly does one "leave" The Sword?  I get what you're saying, but it's ultimately nothing more than a paper with some conferences.  Choosing not to read it or attend their conferences is nothing more than just that.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Shhhhh
You're making an epic exodus un-epic.

Sent from my moto g(6) (XT1925DL) using Tapatalk

 

[Walt]

Galatians 6:1 tells us "Brethren (fellow Christians), if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted."


I used to be a strong supporter of the Sword of the Lord.  I had a regular subscription that I renewed anytime I went to a Sword meeting.  I attended the national conference, when I could, and many years bought the tape sets of all the meetings when I couldn't attend.  It was on one of those tapes that I heard a message that broke my heart and led me to walk away.


The speaker was, of course, a pastor and he told the following story.  While in his church office, he got a phone call from someone who reported one of his Sunday School teachers was going out to nightclubs (his words) with his wife and they were drinking alcohol.  The speaker said that when he got off the phone he called the Sunday School teacher at home and relayed what he had just been told.  The  teacher admitted that it was true and stated that he would resign his Sunday School class the next week.  The speaker then told of how he said, " Oh no, you have resigned your Sunday School class right now", and he continued to talk about all the self righteous things he told this man.  As I was listening to this "sermon",  I wondered who it was that made the initial phone call and how they knew this man was out drinking with his wife?  That never came up.  I also wondered why the "pastor" didn't make a personal visit to the SS teacher's home and ask what was wrong in his life, instead he just made an impersonal and cowardly phone call.  I can tell you that if you have a person in a highly visible position in a church (like a Sunday School teacher)  and they are out publicly drinking, there are some serious emotional/spiritual/personal problems going on.  At no point did this  speakersay he inquired about the teacher's (or his wife's) well being.  Nor did he relay that he ever asked to pray with them or for them.  Instead he pridefully talked about how he got rid of this sinner.  The message didn't nearly upset me as much as the reaction from the crowd.  Throughout the speaker's  boasting, I kept hearing men in the audience yelling "Amen!" and "Amen!"  I wondered if anyone cared about the teacher and his wife?

I was already dealing with my own issues and realized if this kind of Phariseeism was being promoted by the Sword of the Lord, I knew I could no longer be a supporter.

You bring up good points... Perhaps they teacher & his wife were not very mature in their faith, but the pastor pushed them into the position without considering them.  This is, unfortunately, very common in the some churches.  People should "Amen!" and faithfully tithe, attend the services, and go soul-winning, and they are help up as spiritual people. It's sad that in so many conferences, the speakers feel that they have to "prove" their credibility by such things.

I agree with removing him as a Sunday School teacher, but it could be handled with compassion and in much better ways.

The pastor may have shaded the story slightly (I know that's hard to believe, eh?) - he wanted to show the crowd and the attendees that he was still "strict" in sin in this day of compromise.