Why Independant Fundamental Baptist are Stupid

[Green Beret]

I don't expect you to understand the complex nature of this digital world.....

Here we see one of the core causes of the problems you create. You assume. You stereotype to prop up your limited, myopic vision of others with whom you disagree. I know about this particular flaw so well because I have struggled with it myself. Bumping heads with an anonymous poster like you on the FFF causes me to revert to it when I deem it "necessary". I justify it by saying I am just reflecting their attitude to emphasize how bad it is. A little truth to wrap the bigger truth that it feels good to feed the flaws of my contentious flesh at times.

Now, all that being said, let me educate you about my understanding of the digital world. I have been "making tents" in the IT/Telecom industry since 1986. I hold many technical certifications (e.g. CCNT, CNA, CNE, RCDD, etc.) and have worked in LAN/WAN/PBX design and implementation for organisations such as the American Cancer Society, CTN, Beall's Department Stores and many (and I mean many) regional and local banks.

I am slightly competent in C++ and Visual Basic but am more so in HTML, PHP and CSS. Most recently, as an equity partner in an ITSP that is privately held entirely by fellow believers, I have been involved in the design, creation, deployment and continuing development of an Asterisk based communication-as-a-service platform. The firm provides enterprise grade solutions for ministries, as well as the SMB market, here in Florida. BTW, it is going well in spite of the current economic climate. We are debt free, slightly profitable and growing. Helping ministries communicate effectively is a blessing.

Why, just earlier this evening, I helped our very competent tech team thwart efforts of hackers originating from (as far as we could tell) the former Eastern Bloc part of the world that were trying to exploit a weakness in some of our deployed Edgewater Networks routers in NTP reflection DDOS attacks. We did some updates. Wrote some scripts. Uploaded them and Walla, threat eliminated!

So, as you can see (unless you want to accuse me of making this all up), I understand the digital world quite well. I also understand the vast majority of the SMBs do not monitor their router records even if they are active.

However, according to your argument, since I am a Fundamental Independent Baptist, I'm stupid.  :   

I'm pretty sure.... you're no Ronald Reagan.

At times, I can be pretentious. But I would never be pretentious enough to say that I could stand in the shoes of the greatest President of the United States. However, in regards to this topic, I'm gonna make you look a whole lot like Jimmy Carter in the 1980 debate.

Nope. I've never robbed a church by taking wages from someone else......

Good. Neither have I. Let's keep it that way.

 

[christundivided]

Wrong again. Particular Baptists were formed in the 1630s coming out of, primarily, the Church of England. Surely someone as obviously omniscient as you has heard of Henry Jacob, John Lathrop and Henry Jessey?

Sure. I personally believe John Gill was the best out of the "lot". However, I don't believe this squares with traditional IFB doctrine. How many IFBs do you know that believe such?

I know you're accustom to changing your position and pretending you've always believed that way. Thus, the reason you ignored my reference to you history in KJVdum.

Yes. Christianity began with and goes all the way back to Christ. Oh, and the correct spelling is "your." I am amazed somebody as obviously superior to everyone else on the BB still can't seem to master 4th grade English grammar.

We'll. I admit that I got out of sorts. I was watching the news on the bombing and "lost my mind".

You're conflating the two entirely different distinctions.

Sorry, but wrong again. I want things Christ's way. And you?

I applaud you for your change of heart over the years. However, I think its best to remember how one once was...... so as to never forget just how dumb we've been in the past.

 

[christundivided]

Here we see one of the core causes of the problems you create. You assume. You stereotype to prop up your limited, myopic vision of others with which you disagree.

Not really. I never dealt with your secular job history. You're the one making a lot of assumptions in the department. 

I know about this particular flaw so well because I have struggled with it myself. Bumping heads with an anonymous poster like you on the FFF causes me to revert to it when I deem it "necessary". I justify it by saying I am just reflecting their attitude to emphasize how bad it is. A little truth to wrap the bigger truth that it feels good to feed the flaws of my contentious flesh at times.

I'm sure it does....

Now, all that being said, let me educate you about my understanding of the digital world. I have been "making tents" in the IT/Telecom industry since 1986. I hold many technical certifications (e.g. CCNT, CNA, CNE, RCDD, etc.) and have worked in LAN/WAN/PBX design and implementation for organisations such as the American Cancer Society, CTN, Beall's Department Stores and many (and I mean many) regional and local banks.

Well.... that's a long list of accomplishments you have under your belt. Cisco is over rated, over priced, and overly cumbersome. Granted... in most cases. They get the job done. Their Nexus series equipment is rather nice. I personally prefer F5 equipment for complex WAN deployments were redundancy is the paramount concern. I "cut my teeth" working with some 3810 equipment doing voice over frame deployments over fractional T1s long before there was any remotely resembling VOIP.

What's your over failure percentage running trying to push faxes over VOIP? That bridge between analogy and digital transmissions still can drive a person to grab a cold Diet Mountain Dew from time to time. Are you still having to fall back to POTS for some communications?

I am slightly competent in C++ and Visual Basic but am more so in HTML, PHP and CSS. Most recently, as an equity partner in an ITSP that is privately held entirely by fellow believers, I have been involved in the design, creation, deployment and continuing development of an Asterisk based communication-as-a-service platform. The firm provides enterprise grade solutions for ministries, as well as the SMB market, here in Florida. BTW, it is going well in spite of the current economic climate. We are debt free, slightly profitable and growing. Helping ministries communicate effectively is a blessing.

I tend to be more proficient in JSP, ASP or ASPX scripting than anything you mentioned. I don't think anyone can claim they have Windows based management experience without having some knowledge of VB or WScript experience. I try to stay way from the Cs...... I don't know if there much of future in it.

Why, just earlier this evening, I helped our very competent tech team thwart efforts of hackers originating from (as far as we could tell) the former Eastern Bloc part of the world that were trying to exploit a weakness in some of our deployed Edgewater Networks routers in NTP reflection DDOS attacks. We did some updates. Wrote some scripts. Uploaded them and Walla, threat eliminated!

Just why are you servicing NTP? A good Threat Management System will make your life a lot easier.

So, as you can see (unless you want to accuse me of making this all up), I understand the digital world quite well. I also understand the vast majority of the SMBs do not monitor their router records even if they are active.

You assume too much. I'm certainly not talking about a SMB environment.

However, according to your argument, since I am a Fundamental Independent Baptist, I'm stupid.  :   

We are often blind to the simple things in life. We over complicate too many things. Its the old forest for the trees issues.

At times, I can be pretentious. But I would never be pretentious enough to say that I could stand in the shoes of the greatest President of the United States. However, in regards to this topic, I'm gonna make you look a whole lot like Jimmy Carter in the 1980 debate.

I would never admit to being pretentious. I far too talented for that.

Good. Neither have I. Let's keep it that way.

We have more than common than you think. I have often said.... that I feel caught between two worlds. On one hand.... I've grown to the point that I would never......ever..... once again pickup that which "I've counted but dung" to learn of Christ. On the other hand..... In some ways..... I sure do miss my childhood among the IFBs. I made many friends. Well..... at least I consider them friends at the time. I've found that is often a lonely road that leads to recognizing the truth in Christ Jesus.

I've often wondered why I even give you IFBs the time of day anymore. I recon..... its because I see a younger..... immature "me" in many of you.

I need to work on my summary.....The way things are going..... I'm going to be the one asking for more time....

 

[Green Beret]

Well.... that's a long list of accomplishments you have under your belt. Cisco is over rated, over priced, and overly cumbersome.

Agreed. We call it Crisco down here because it is sure to fry under load. But those aren't Cisco certs, they are TIA and Novell. And, as you well know, those acronyms I spent so much money to obtain are now worthless.

I personally prefer F5 equipment for complex WAN deployments were redundancy is the paramount concern.

I like F5 like I used to like Foundry before Brocade bought them. However, in the space we now serve, they are usually too pricey.

I "cut my teeth" working with some 3810 equipment doing voice over frame deployments over fractional T1s long before there was any remotely resembling VOIP.

You sound as old as me. Long ago, when I used to work full time secular and part time ministry, we used to sell VOD/VUD devices. They morphed into VoFR (we once even tried voice over X.25) and then migrated to ATM. Of course MPLS and VOIP eventually won.

What's your over failure percentage running trying to push faxes over VOIP? That bridge between analogy and digital transmissions still can drive a person to grab a cold Diet Mountain Dew from time to time. Are you still having to fall back to POTS for some communications?

It used to be lousy. We finally devised an architecture and product mix using a particular form of T.38 that actually works 98% of the time. Don't ask. It's a trade secret (or at least we pretend it is). We still use POTS for fire alarms, old style modems and other assorted squealing devices.

Just why are you servicing NTP? A good Threat Management System will make your life a lot easier.

That's what we wanted to know. There was a flaw in a firmware release that we didn't catch it until our monitors started showing weird packet loss patterns. They're fixed now.

You assume too much. I'm certainly not talking about a SMB environment.

Well, as you know, there's been a lot of assuming going on. However, I have seen IT departments even in some VLEs try to manage by policy instead of monitor actual activity. Not saying it's the norm but it certainly happens!

We have more than common than you think. I have often said.... that I feel caught between two worlds. On one hand.... I've grown to the point that I would never......ever..... once again pickup that which "I've counted but dung" to learn of Christ. On the other hand..... In some ways..... I sure do miss my childhood among the IFBs. I made many friends. Well..... at least I consider them friends at the time. I've found that is often a lonely road that leads to recognizing the truth in Christ Jesus.

Yes, perhaps we do have more in common than we care to admit. Not knowing your life story I can only but hypothesize that you took a turn in the road were I decided to only swerve 24 years ago. I left the world of the hyper-fundies and pushed on to form what we eventually called an "historic" IFB position. It has been, and always will be, a work in progress but I believe we have managed to cast off the darkness while holding on to that which is good.

I need to work on my summary.....The way things are going..... I'm going to be the one asking for more time....

No pressure. I decided to stay up late and finish it tonight. It is done for the most part. Just have to tweek it. You know the drill, type the content, sleep, wake up to edit it the next day while you are wondering what you were thinking the night before. 

 

[Citadel of Truth]

Come on, guys! Save all the mushy stuff until after the debate. We all want to see the gloves come off!  8)

 

[Bobby Ross]

I give up.  Is the answer "because you said so"?

 

[FundamentalDan]

With all due respect.... I don't believe those comparisons are particularly an apples to apples explanation... and I never questioned some of those distinctions. I call myself a North Carolinian for a few reasons. Yet, I would never claim this compares to a distinctly religious affiliation.

I've said enough. I'll share the rest in the debate.

And then he continues to discuss for three more pages.

 

[christundivided]

With all due respect.... I don't believe those comparisons are particularly an apples to apples explanation... and I never questioned some of those distinctions. I call myself a North Carolinian for a few reasons. Yet, I would never claim this compares to a distinctly religious affiliation.

I've said enough. I'll share the rest in the debate.

And then he continues to discuss for three more pages.

If Paul did it..... Then that's good enough for me....

Have you ever heard that before?

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

What a content-free and pointless opening statement.  I don't even think GB understands what a debate is, or what this one is about. 

It will be a shame if CU misses the mark by such a wide mile, too.  That would make this so-called "debate" a total waste of energy and time for all involved. 

 

[christundivided]

I've posted my summary I sent to Admin so GB can work his response. I've got a few irons in the fire at the moment. I appreciate GBs prayers and I look forward to the debate.

After a long illness, we lost a extended family member. Our family is saddened, but our Lord is happy. In this time of sadness, I can't help but think of our Eternal Hope in Christ Jesus. Its a wondrous pleasure to have a steadfast and unmovable Hope in Eternal Life that Christ gives. Joy in the midst of sadness. Peace in the midst of turmoil. Comfort, in the loving embrace of the only One that can help heal our broken hearts. Thank you Lord Jesus!!!! Thank you!!!!

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

I've posted my summary I sent to Admin so GB can work his response. I've got a few irons in the fire at the moment. I appreciate GBs prayers and I look forward to the debate.

After a long illness, we lost a extended family member. Our family is saddened, but our Lord is happy. In this time of sadness, I can't help but think of our Eternal Hope in Christ Jesus. Its a wondrous pleasure to have a steadfast and unmovable Hope in Eternal Life that Christ gives. Joy in the midst of sadness. Peace in the midst of turmoil. Comfort, in the loving embrace of the only One that can help heal our broken hearts. Thank you Lord Jesus!!!! Thank you!!!!

I'll keep my opinion of your argument to myself, for now, but at least your opening statement was on-topic and well-written.  It will be interesting to see if GB can respond in kind and get a real debate going. 

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

I've posted my summary I sent to Admin so GB can work his response. I've got a few irons in the fire at the moment. I appreciate GBs prayers and I look forward to the debate.

After a long illness, we lost a extended family member. Our family is saddened, but our Lord is happy. In this time of sadness, I can't help but think of our Eternal Hope in Christ Jesus. Its a wondrous pleasure to have a steadfast and unmovable Hope in Eternal Life that Christ gives. Joy in the midst of sadness. Peace in the midst of turmoil. Comfort, in the loving embrace of the only One that can help heal our broken hearts. Thank you Lord Jesus!!!! Thank you!!!!

CU, we have been at the opposite sides of posts here a few times, but please know that the loss of a family member is dear to my heart, and that I am burdened by your sadness and rejoice with you in the hope found in Christ. I prayed for you before posting this, and will continue to do so. May God give you and you family grace in your hour of need.

 

[Citadel of Truth]

After a long illness, we lost a extended family member. Our family is saddened, but our Lord is happy. In this time of sadness, I can't help but think of our Eternal Hope in Christ Jesus. Its a wondrous pleasure to have a steadfast and unmovable Hope in Eternal Life that Christ gives. Joy in the midst of sadness. Peace in the midst of turmoil. Comfort, in the loving embrace of the only One that can help heal our broken hearts. Thank you Lord Jesus!!!! Thank you!!!!

First, praise the Lord for His presence even in the dark valleys of life.
"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you." Isa 43:2

Second, it will be interesting how many come out of the woodwork now giving us their opinions of your arguments and how they would refute them. Kudos to Green Beret for being the only one willing to take your challenge. I'm looking forward to reading the debate.

 

[bruinboy]

I saw the thread title and saw it was only 23 pages long.  Are the rest of you sleeping?