Why's

[Fresh Air]

...nevermind

 

[Pastor Marty]

...nevermind

Why Not?

 

[qwerty]

Kind of a bummer this thread did not take off. Was interested in what some of the responses would have been.

 

[myeyesareopen]

I think the original poster might have been embarrassed to have laid a big "matzoh ball" that was receiving no response. Yet, I too was interested in the potential of the topic.

It does not seem like there are very many posters on this site, wonder how many lurkers there are?

Ok, here's something I believe to be related to the original topic that has been removed. I fell into fundamentalism because the person who led me to the Lord was an independent fundamental baptist. For far too many years, and to my admitted shame, I swallowed everything -- hook, line and sinker. I just assumed that the sect that told me the truth about Christ had the truth locked up in every area of the Christian life.

You gradually discover that things are not perfect in Camelot, but you are very forgiving because....after all, Christians are not perfect, they are just forgiven. (JUST forgiven?)

Then a disaster hits, but you close your eyes, decide the whole world is gnashing its nasty teeth against the one and only truly righteous religion and leader. God will silence the haters! Loyalty to the cause demands we prevail, and do not listen to a whisper of the slander.

Gradually things die down, and go along swimmingly until the death of the pastor. However, the new pastor -- he is so amazing. He is modern. He is so smart, one can really be proud to have such a sharply dressed, savvy, scholarly, hip, intelligent, athletic, financially-gifted, pastor. He walks with God, and is so close to Him, our hearts burn to know God the way our pastor does. He can snap his fingers and solve any problem. He is going places and wants us to go along for the ride with him.  He has a gang of guys around him, a kind of Fundamental Fraternity. They wear matching leather jackets and are the envy of all. These are the Great Men Of God. King Arthur and his court...

Yep, I bought into it again, hook line and sinker.

I even assumed, whenever I became disenchanted with the new Camelot, that the problem had to be me. But in July of 2012, we of course found out that the problem was...him.

(Edited to add: You realize with horror and shame that it is true...you really were following a man. It was a man who purported to be following God, but you really were relying on him and not Him. You start to realize this church makes an idol out of its Man Of God and it makes an idol out of the church itself. You start to notice how Scripture is not correctly applied in most sermons, you start to realize so very many things...and at long last, your eyes are open. You feel as if you are Rip Van Winkle, and you just woke from a very, very long sleep...to find everything is different from how you thought it was. Everything is so different, you are not sure if it is God opening your eyes or the Devil deceiving you...some people tell you one thing, others tell you another. Who to believe?)

How the church handles the crisis will determine my ability to regain faith in the integrity of this church, or lose faith in it.

I think I will save my conclusion for another post, for the jury is still out on whether the church has true integrity. I am definitely leaning one way, very strongly...but do not want to draw the final conclusion just yet.

There, I've tried to get this thread off the ground. Anyone else brave enough to jump in?

 

[Sherryh]

I love this site but this post was out of my league.............

 

[bgwilkinson]

JH always said he was more Catholic than Charismatic.
We just didn't know how Catholic he actually was.

Magic Blood, Magic Body (church), and Magic Book (KJV)
All the marks of a cult.
And we all got mad when they called us a cult.

MOG is just a Baptist pope.

 

[myeyesareopen]

Yes! I too scoffed at the notion of the church as cultic, and I scoffed mightily at the notion I was following a man rather than God.

It is insidious, the way it happens. They *think* the entire church is focused on Christ. But...there is this pressure: Preacher said this...Preacher thinks that....Preacher wants this.....Preacher didn't like this, so we're going to do that instead....Preacher.....Preacher....Preacher.....

Did Preacher just mention my name from the pulpit? Did he notice me when I sang a special? Did he send me a card for my birthday? Did he stop to shake my hand?  Can I win a contest so that I can actually get to (oh my word!!) spend time with Preacher? I would just do anything for my preacher....

Before you know it, all eyes are on Preacher. We think that is fine, because Preacher has eyes only for God.

When you wake up, it is so obvious. But when you spend year after year in a coma of contentment, you never see it.

And I already see people gushing over the new preacher. Friending on Facebook, sending gushing letters of love at first sight, jockeying for position, seeking attention. For....to be noticed by Preacher is to be noticed by God.

I now have to figure out the line between respect and adulation...

 

[cave_dweller]

Yes! I too scoffed at the notion of the church as cultic, and I scoffed mightily at the notion I was following a man rather than God.

It is insidious, the way it happens. They *think* the entire church is focused on Christ. But...there is this pressure: Preacher said this...Preacher thinks that....Preacher wants this.....Preacher didn't like this, so we're going to do that instead....Preacher.....Preacher....Preacher.....

Did Preacher just mention my name from the pulpit? Did he notice me when I sang a special? Did he send me a card for my birthday? Did he stop to shake my hand?  Can I win a contest so that I can actually get to (oh my word!!) spend time with Preacher? I would just do anything for my preacher....

Before you know it, all eyes are on Preacher. We think that is fine, because Preacher has eyes only for God.

When you wake up, it is so obvious. But when you spend year after year in a coma of contentment, you never see it.

And I already see people gushing over the new preacher. Friending on Facebook, sending gushing letters of love at first sight, jockeying for position, seeking attention. For....to be noticed by Preacher is to be noticed by God.

I now have to figure out the line between respect and adulation...

1 Corinthians 11 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

 

[cave_dweller]

1 Corinthians 11 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

dats whats sooos gooood bout    joel osteen and joyce meyer    t h e y  points you to god

i really  really  really likes them

they are my favs    lol

Does your mommy know you are on the internet unspervised?

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

...nevermind

You want me to go into my "I didn't leave the IFB...the IFB left me" speech again? 

 

[cave_dweller]

1 Corinthians 11 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

dats whats sooos gooood bout    joel osteen and joyce meyer    t h e y  points you to god

i really  really  really likes them

they are my favs    lol

Does your mommy know you are on the internet unspervised?

s t o p    f l i r t i n g    with me    l o l

[attachment deleted by admin]

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Other than ivanette's ramblings, this has taken on a similar context to the "Leaving the IFB Hurts" thread.  See my story there.

Eyes: Try reading "The Pursuit of God" by AW Tozer.  When I was making decisions, this book helped me understand a new paradigm (Living to please God, not the Preacher).  I would encourage you to not throw out what IFB actually means, due to the heresy that has crept into many of the larger churches.

There are many good people in your church.  There are also many who are deluded in their thinking that the preacher is God's voice speaking to them, rather than the Holy Spirit.  Find the good ones, seek to help the deluded (though you must approach it with care).

Truthfully, no matter where you go to church, there will be a large percentage of people who are deluded in some way.

 

[lnf]

Binaca Chugger, what a thoughtful, reasoned and accurate response.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Thanks, Inf!

Oh, and eyes:  If I may, one church's response to a situation or fall from Biblical principles does not determine if the principles of the Bible are true or not.  When you get to the point that you are re-evaluating everything (and it sounds like you are just about there) forget what people say and examine the Scriptures.  We do have the Spirit of Truth who will lead us and guide us.  Sounds like you are in for a long journey.

 

[Timothy]

1 Corinthians 11 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

dats whats sooos gooood bout    joel osteen and joyce meyer    t h e y  points you to god

i really  really  really likes them

they are my favs    lol

You are right, they point you to a god.

I am more interested in Jehovah - the real God.

Prosperity doctrine is a false teaching.

 

[cave_dweller]

I would not even reply to that nonsense

 

[Baptist City Holdout]

Eyesopen, You are scraping open a fresh wound. Your words are true. take the "Pursuit of God" by Tozer suggestion. Really, any of his writings are good to point us to God and His Word, not man. His writings have really helped me in my times of confusion.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Yes! I too scoffed at the notion of the church as cultic, and I scoffed mightily at the notion I was following a man rather than God.

It is insidious, the way it happens. They *think* the entire church is focused on Christ. But...there is this pressure: Preacher said this...Preacher thinks that....Preacher wants this.....Preacher didn't like this, so we're going to do that instead....Preacher.....Preacher....Preacher.....

Did Preacher just mention my name from the pulpit? Did he notice me when I sang a special? Did he send me a card for my birthday? Did he stop to shake my hand?  Can I win a contest so that I can actually get to (oh my word!!) spend time with Preacher? I would just do anything for my preacher....

Before you know it, all eyes are on Preacher. We think that is fine, because Preacher has eyes only for God.

When you wake up, it is so obvious. But when you spend year after year in a coma of contentment, you never see it.

And I already see people gushing over the new preacher. Friending on Facebook, sending gushing letters of love at first sight, jockeying for position, seeking attention. For....to be noticed by Preacher is to be noticed by God.

I now have to figure out the line between respect and adulation...

1 Corinthians 11 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

 

[myeyesareopen]

Take the "Pursuit of God" by Tozer suggestion. Really, any of his writings are good to point us to God and His Word, not man.

I do own that book, "The Pursuit of God". I don't remember if I've read it or not...I really got a lot out of Tim Keller's "Prodigal God" and right now am reading Tullian Tchividjian's "Jesus + Nothing = Everything", which is pretty riveting.

Thank you for the suggestions.

 

[RAIDER]

Eyesopen, You are scraping open a fresh wound. Your words are true. take the "Pursuit of God" by Tozer suggestion. Really, any of his writings are good to point us to God and His Word, not man. His writings have really helped me in my times of confusion.

Didn't Schaap write a book called "What to Expect in the Pursuit of God"?