Woke Up to This

[Baptist City Holdout]

I know it's old, but it's in the news. Like a bad night mare. This will never be over.

ww.journalgazette.net/news/local/courts/Megachurch-in-Hammond-faces-federal-fraud-suit-12937272

 

[Baptist City Holdout]

Copy and paste the link. Or maybe don't.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Copy and paste the link. Or maybe don't.

Forgot the first "w" in the URL.

http://www.journalgazette.net/news/local/courts/Megachurch-in-Hammond-faces-federal-fraud-suit-12937272

 

[sword]

Copy and paste the link. Or maybe don't.

Forgot the first "w" in the URL.
http://www.journalgazette.net/news/local/courts/Megachurch-in-Hammond-faces-federal-fraud-suit-12937272

Some additional reading that brainisengaged posted for us Friday.
http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/first-baptist-church-sued-in-investment-scheme/article_069b4bf9-21d7-5995-a11f-0ddc7de34f0c.html

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Copy and paste the link. Or maybe don't.

Forgot the first "w" in the URL.
http://www.journalgazette.net/news/local/courts/Megachurch-in-Hammond-faces-federal-fraud-suit-12937272

Some additional reading that brainisengaged posted for us Friday.
http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/first-baptist-church-sued-in-investment-scheme/article_069b4bf9-21d7-5995-a11f-0ddc7de34f0c.html

Rick Hammond, an attorney representing the church, said Friday the church ?believes the charges are baseless.

Irony?

 

[Walt]

Copy and paste the link. Or maybe don't.

Forgot the first "w" in the URL.
http://www.journalgazette.net/news/local/courts/Megachurch-in-Hammond-faces-federal-fraud-suit-12937272

Some additional reading that brainisengaged posted for us Friday.
http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/first-baptist-church-sued-in-investment-scheme/article_069b4bf9-21d7-5995-a11f-0ddc7de34f0c.html

Rick Hammond, an attorney representing the church, said Friday the church ?believes the charges are baseless.

Irony?

Exquisite!

 

[Walt]

I guess I would find this more believable if they had sued Schaap and the main guy, or maybe even the deacons who allowed Schaap to go down this path, but the church?  This sounds like they are merely going after an organization with money, and washes any nobility aspect away.

 

[Baptist City Holdout]

I guess I would find this more believable if they had sued Schaap and the main guy, or maybe even the deacons who allowed Schaap to go down this path, but the church?  This sounds like they are merely going after an organization with money, and washes any nobility aspect away.

Yes! My thought was that the ones responsible are long gone.

 

[prophet]

I guess I would find this more believable if they had sued Schaap and the main guy, or maybe even the deacons who allowed Schaap to go down this path, but the church?  This sounds like they are merely going after an organization with money, and washes any nobility aspect away.

This is a home missionary going after the organization he is a part of.



earnestly contend

 

[Fresh Air]

This is a home missionary going after the organization he is a part of.

...at the risk of pointing out the obvious:

1 Corinthians 6:6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?

 

[prophet]

This is a home missionary going after the organization he is a part of.

...at the risk of pointing out the obvious:

1 Corinthians 6:6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?

You mean "what should be the obvious"?



earnestly contend

 

[prophet]

FBCH should be eager to repay all who were cheated in this scheme, who are a part of the Church.

They should have offered this as soon as they knew.

The church is become a laughing stock, in the court of the Heathen.

Wouldn't it be a great testimony.... by this shall all men know....if  they just made it right, and cancelled the lawsuit?



earnestly contend

 

[WESLEY]

http://www.fbmi.org/?missionary_posts=elwell

 

[prophet]

This is a home missionary going after the organization he is a part of.

...at the risk of pointing out the obvious:

1 Corinthians 6:6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?

There may be another factor here:

Bro. Hyles advised people, on occasion, to sue the church or college.
He said that you weren't suing your brother, but rather utilizing the only path to access the insurance $.



earnestly contend

 

[bgwilkinson]

This is a home missionary going after the organization he is a part of.

...at the risk of pointing out the obvious:

1 Corinthians 6:6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?

There may be another factor here:

Bro. Hyles advised people, on occasion, to sue the church or college.
He said that you weren't suing your brother, but rather utilizing the only path to access the insurance $.



earnestly contend

Yes he did say those things, but as we now know, all to well, he was very very wrong on many things.

Kimmel was a serious problem for sure and the law suite may be his only way for Joe to recoup his funds.

I sure can see it from Joe's side. I surely do empathize with him.

He is doing what my dad did for almost 20 years, however my dad supported us with profits from his businesses.

The suite is against the church corporation. The body of Christ, the congregation, is not the corporation.

The corporation is the holding company that owns all the assets and collects all the necessary taxes for the state to stay

in compliance with Federal law.

I believe this was necessary for him to get the insurance to kick in.

I in no way blame him or hold it against him, he is the innocent victim.

 

[Matthew1323]

This is a home missionary going after the organization he is a part of.

...at the risk of pointing out the obvious:

1 Corinthians 6:6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?

Sometimes, you have to make the wise decision that the perpetual defrauders, liars, deceivers, and abusers are really NOT your brothers!

The idea that often seems to be promoted is that when someone represents "my brand of Christianity" or "my church" then they are "untouchable." The pastor and representatives of the church often ignore the quoted verses above and publicly denounce and ridicule those that take a contrary position to what they state is right or wrong. They hire a D. Gibbs-type lawyer and circle the wagons in righteous indignition! In these instances where are those that say, "Why do ye not rather take wrong?"  Where are those people who promote, "why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?" Well, it is because in some people's eyes those verses apparently are only applicable for and used only to protect the true offenders!

IMO, it is time for the church and it's representatives to get off their high horses and stop their seemingly never-ending hypocritical foolishness! Christians need to stop protecting the wicked and foolish when they represent "our side!"

 

[prophet]

This is a home missionary going after the organization he is a part of.

...at the risk of pointing out the obvious:

1 Corinthians 6:6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?

There may be another factor here:

Bro. Hyles advised people, on occasion, to sue the church or college.
He said that you weren't suing your brother, but rather utilizing the only path to access the insurance $.



earnestly contend

Yes he did say those things, but as we now know, all to well, he was very very wrong on many things.

Kimmel was a serious problem for sure and the law suite may be his only way for Joe to recoup his funds.

I sure can see it from Joe's side. I surely do empathize with him.

He is doing what my dad did for almost 20 years, however my dad supported us with profits from his businesses.

The suite is against the church corporation. The body of Christ, the congregation, is not the corporation.

The corporation is the holding company that owns all the assets and collects all the necessary taxes for the state to stay

in compliance with Federal law.

I believe this was necessary for him to get the insurance to kick in.

I in no way blame him or hold it against him, he is the innocent victim.

This is what I was getting at.  Thank you for making it understandable.

earnestly contend

 

[BALAAM]

I guess I would find this more believable if they had sued Schaap and the main guy, or maybe even the deacons who allowed Schaap to go down this path, but the church?  This sounds like they are merely going after an organization with money, and washes any nobility aspect away.

Yes! My thought was that the ones responsible are long gone.

I disagree here. If you decide to give your all your money to one single individual to manage then you are responsible. Thom has been a very shady individual since I first met him 30 years ago. When he rose to prominence at fbch with his nose up schaaps behind, I asked several people who had been at fbch all their lives how Thom made his money and how he became such a financial guru. Nobody knew. You could have googled his name and enough yellow flags would have been raised to cause you to back off.

Unfortunately, this kind of thing has been going on in churches ever since Leviticus built the ark and I am sure it will continue.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

My first thought:  How does a missionary have $200,000 to invest?

 

[Binaca Chugger]

As others have stated, the church promoted this scandal.  The church should be seeking means by which to at least give partial reimbursements.  The church as an organization is guilty.  As another pointed out, just because someone claims the name Christian, doesn't mean that he is a Christian.  Some of these people are just evil and pretend to be that which they are not so that they can guilt others into not mandating a punishment upon their crime.